Safety of Reduced 30/06 Loads

cobra81 · March 17, 2005, 04:27 PM

In the interest of lower recoil equating to more time spent shooting, I have been loading 27 grains of SR4759 behind Hornady's 110gr. V-Max bullet, tamping a small bit of tissue into the brass to keep the powder down near the primer.
This load has been very accurate, and chronographs consistently around 2500 fps out of my Savage 30/06. I know this is considerably slower than most of my manuals recommend for that particular bullet, but is there any danger in having a KaBoom with these loads? I read somewhere recently that you shouldn't use pistol powder for reduced rifle loads. This load seems to work great in my gun, and the recoil is mild enough that I can shoot all day with no discomfort. I was also thinking of getting some Alliant 2400 for the same purpose.

Leftoverdj · March 17, 2005, 06:00 PM

I don't think much of using that tissue. Some folks do it and get away with it, but there have been entirely too many reports of ringed barrels for me to ignore them.

You've got the right powders for what you are doing. They have been used for reduced loads as long as they have been around. XMP 5744 and either of the 4198s are also good. Never heard of a blowup with reduced loads with any of them.

**Mike Irwin** · March 17, 2005, 06:16 PM

"you shouldn't use pistol powder for reduced rifle loads."

News to me.

Over the years I've round probably 5,000 .30-06/.300 Savage lead bullet reduced loads through my guns.

In my one .30-06 12 grains of Red Dot and a 100-gr. LRN bullet is unbelievably accurate.

Unfortunately, it was also unbelievably dirty...

steveno · March 17, 2005, 06:30 PM

I have a load of 18 grains of Unique in my 270 Ruger # 1A using a 130 gr Nosler ballistic tip without any filler. the load is good for about 1,850 fps and inch groups at 100 yards. I don't believe in using a filler because if you don't get it right you have a second bullet to contend with and that ain't good.

my normal 45-70 fun load is also 18 grains of Unique with a 300 gr jacketed bullet nd that is also without any filler.

in either load there is quite a bit of room for the bullet and the chronograph does show any dramatic variations with either load

Paul B. · March 17, 2005, 06:33 PM

Cobra. What you're doing is perfectly OK. Most, if not all of my light load shooting is with cast bullets in 30-30, .308 Win. and 30-06. Bullet weights run from 115 gr. to 200 gr. and loads are usually with one of the 2400s, 4227, and one of the 4895s. A 190 gr. (Lyman #311644) gas checked bullet with 17.0 gr. of 2400 will hit hard enough at 300 meters to knock down pig silhouettes. Have to raise the sights way up though. A neat gallery load is 5.0 gr. of Unique in either the 30-30. .308 or 30-06. A quarter square of toilet paper tamped against the powder to hold it in place is about right. Great for tin can plinking or small game to maybe 50 yards. Sounds like a kids cap gun and recoil is, for all practical purposes, non-existant.
My all time favorite loads thoght are Lyman's #311644 with 25.0 gr. of IMR or H-4895 in the .308 Win. and 27.0 gr. in the 30-06. I haven't done much with the 06 lately, but that .308 load in my rifles have given 1.5 MOA at 200 yards and 2.5 MOA at 300 yards. I see no reason why a 30-06 wouldn't be capable of doing the same with minor load adjustment.
Also, you can get some Winchester bulk 150 gr. Power points and use 25.0 gr. of one of the 4895s. My wife likes that load in her .308 for practice. Just enough recoil so that you know you're shooting, but not enough to cause pain. If you try the cast bullets, be sure they are sized to .310".
Paul B.

mete · March 17, 2005, 07:55 PM

Use fast burning powder for reduced loads. BTW Unique was originally a RIFLE powder !

**Mike Irwin** · March 17, 2005, 11:17 PM

"BTW Unique was originally a RIFLE powder."

It was originally introduced as a shotgun powder, I believe.

Edward429451 · March 17, 2005, 11:24 PM

You guys are both right. First it was a shotshell powder, then a rifle powder, now its just 'smokeless powder'. I have three cans of varying vintage downstairs.

sundog · March 18, 2005, 10:08 AM

Check out Hodgdon's "Youth Loads". sundog

MADISON · March 18, 2005, 11:31 AM

Lee has a software program out that allows you to down-size your current load ti any veocity you want. Lee will take no responsibility for it's use. I have Ten 165 gr 30-06 rounds loaded with 10 gr of Unique, for a year now.
Go lite on bullet and powder and you MIGHT be OK?

cobra81 · March 18, 2005, 02:46 PM

Just got a chance to check these replies.....finally got some warm (enough) weather here in Illinois to do some serious shooting. I'm getting 20 fps avg. more over my chrony with the non-wadded loads of SR4759 and the 110 gr. V-Max bullets. Haven't run into any problems with either load, but I guess being used to 30-06 loads running 60-70% load density, I have to consciously remember to tilt the muzzle upward before shooting to get those 27 gr. loads to the bottom of the shell when shooting the loads without wads.
BTW, Paul, the 1/4 piece of toilet tissue you recommended is what I've been using. I really like the lower recoil and I cannot gripe about the accuracy of the Hornady 110 gr. V-Max. I picked up some 2400 powder and will purchase some Unique shortly. Have never shot cast bullets, but might have to look at expanding into that area of reloading. Looks interesting. Paul, you mention using .310 size cast bullets....is that because of the softness of the lead vs. copper jacket?

Edward429451 · March 18, 2005, 04:13 PM

I've loaded and shot a 110g lead roundnose (intended for 30 M1 Carbine) into 30/06 and had no problems, no backed out primers or anything. The charge was 12.0g of Unique.

Paul B. · March 18, 2005, 06:27 PM

Cobra and Edward.

Cobra, I've found that by using bullets sized to .310" that leading is cut down and accuracy is improved. I've just started playing around with bullets sized to .311" and so far, results are interesting. I haven't done enough to make a decent judgement call though. The .310s work just fine though. I'm considering trying to shoot groups at 600 yards next, but I'm not sure my scopes have enough elevation adjustment in them to do that. Also, take note of my comments to Edward 429451.

Edward. You probably already know this, but just in case, don't use the brass from those light loads for full power loads down the road. You will run into headspace problems as when the primer fires off the charge, the case is driven forward pushing the shoulder back. However, while there is sufficient pressure to push the bullet out of the barrel, there is not enough to force the case bad and allow it to expand enough to fill out and form to the chamber.
I keep all my brass for cast bullet loads well separated from the full power load brass.

Shooting cast bullets is like getting a higher education in the handloading game. Anybody can read a loading manual and get decent results from the get go, but with cast bullets, well there is more work involved. However, once you get started, you'll find it to be addictive as hell. This must be true as I've been doing it for 55 years now and still haven't kicked the habit. I don't think I want to either.

Paul B.

Edward429451 · March 18, 2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Edward. You probably already know this, but just in case,

Thanks Paul, I did not know that! Luckily, I've been more & more efficient in keeping my brass segregated from the various loads over time, & reusing the same brass for the same loads for the most part until tossed. Especially for rifle rounds. I know right where that brass is, and appreciate the heads up on that.

They force was with me. Learn something new everyday.

drinks · March 18, 2005, 09:56 PM

Edward, I have been loading cast bullets only 49 years, so am still sorta new to it, but for larger cases and smaller volumes of faster powder, I use the Lyman wad, a 5/8 " square of 1/4 " quilt batting tamped on the powder with a pencil eraser end.
A 24x60 " roll at 1.99 will do you for years.
Don

Edward429451 · March 20, 2005, 12:02 PM

I've been chewing on this a bit, and have a question.

Ii loaded some 30/06's awhile back with a starting load out of Speer's manual, and got high primers. I wasn't going for a reduced load par se, just beginning to work a load up with new powder. It seems to me that these high primer loads are to be suspect of shoulder setback also.

When the primer/charge goes off, the case is forced forwards, setting back the shoulder but not enough force to set the case back against the breech/boltface, allowing the primer room to setback somewhat.

Would it be a reasonable assumption to say/suspect that the shoulder has set back the same amount as the high primer protrudes?

I haven't been reloading rifle cartridges near as long as I have been handgun. I was previously unaware about the shoulder setback issue (in this context) and as far as high primers go, figured, add more powder, the case wasn't necessarily trashed for high power loads. I'm now thinking differently. I haven't loaded those high primer cases again, though they are ready to go. You guys now have me thinking that I should trash these cases. These high primer loads were loaded with a medium heavy bullet.

Would case gauging these cases show me that the shoulder was set back on this brass? (I've been using the rifle chamber for /06.)

March 17, 2005, 04:27 PM	#1
cobra81 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 336	Safety of Reduced 30/06 Loads In the interest of lower recoil equating to more time spent shooting, I have been loading 27 grains of SR4759 behind Hornady's 110gr. V-Max bullet, tamping a small bit of tissue into the brass to keep the powder down near the primer. This load has been very accurate, and chronographs consistently around 2500 fps out of my Savage 30/06. I know this is considerably slower than most of my manuals recommend for that particular bullet, but is there any danger in having a KaBoom with these loads? I read somewhere recently that you shouldn't use pistol powder for reduced rifle loads. This load seems to work great in my gun, and the recoil is mild enough that I can shoot all day with no discomfort. I was also thinking of getting some Alliant 2400 for the same purpose.

March 17, 2005, 06:33 PM	#5
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,801	Cobra. What you're doing is perfectly OK. Most, if not all of my light load shooting is with cast bullets in 30-30, .308 Win. and 30-06. Bullet weights run from 115 gr. to 200 gr. and loads are usually with one of the 2400s, 4227, and one of the 4895s. A 190 gr. (Lyman #311644) gas checked bullet with 17.0 gr. of 2400 will hit hard enough at 300 meters to knock down pig silhouettes. Have to raise the sights way up though. A neat gallery load is 5.0 gr. of Unique in either the 30-30. .308 or 30-06. A quarter square of toilet paper tamped against the powder to hold it in place is about right. Great for tin can plinking or small game to maybe 50 yards. Sounds like a kids cap gun and recoil is, for all practical purposes, non-existant. My all time favorite loads thoght are Lyman's #311644 with 25.0 gr. of IMR or H-4895 in the .308 Win. and 27.0 gr. in the 30-06. I haven't done much with the 06 lately, but that .308 load in my rifles have given 1.5 MOA at 200 yards and 2.5 MOA at 300 yards. I see no reason why a 30-06 wouldn't be capable of doing the same with minor load adjustment. Also, you can get some Winchester bulk 150 gr. Power points and use 25.0 gr. of one of the 4895s. My wife likes that load in her .308 for practice. Just enough recoil so that you know you're shooting, but not enough to cause pain. If you try the cast bullets, be sure they are sized to .310". Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

March 17, 2005, 11:17 PM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	"BTW Unique was originally a RIFLE powder." It was originally introduced as a shotgun powder, I believe. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 17, 2005, 11:24 PM	#8
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Unique You guys are both right. First it was a shotshell powder, then a rifle powder, now its just 'smokeless powder'. I have three cans of varying vintage downstairs.

March 18, 2005, 10:08 AM	#9
sundog Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Green Country, OK Posts: 782	Check out Hodgdon's "Youth Loads". sundog __________________ safety first

March 17, 2005, 06:00 PM	#2
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	I don't think much of using that tissue. Some folks do it and get away with it, but there have been entirely too many reports of ringed barrels for me to ignore them. You've got the right powders for what you are doing. They have been used for reduced loads as long as they have been around. XMP 5744 and either of the 4198s are also good. Never heard of a blowup with reduced loads with any of them.

March 17, 2005, 06:16 PM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	"you shouldn't use pistol powder for reduced rifle loads." News to me. Over the years I've round probably 5,000 .30-06/.300 Savage lead bullet reduced loads through my guns. In my one .30-06 12 grains of Red Dot and a 100-gr. LRN bullet is unbelievably accurate. Unfortunately, it was also unbelievably dirty... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 17, 2005, 06:30 PM	#4
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	I have a load of 18 grains of Unique in my 270 Ruger # 1A using a 130 gr Nosler ballistic tip without any filler. the load is good for about 1,850 fps and inch groups at 100 yards. I don't believe in using a filler because if you don't get it right you have a second bullet to contend with and that ain't good. my normal 45-70 fun load is also 18 grains of Unique with a 300 gr jacketed bullet nd that is also without any filler. in either load there is quite a bit of room for the bullet and the chronograph does show any dramatic variations with either load

March 17, 2005, 07:55 PM	#6
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Use fast burning powder for reduced loads. BTW Unique was originally a RIFLE powder !

March 18, 2005, 11:31 AM	#10
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	Squib Loads For 30-06 Lee has a software program out that allows you to down-size your current load ti any veocity you want. Lee will take no responsibility for it's use. I have Ten 165 gr 30-06 rounds loaded with 10 gr of Unique, for a year now. Go lite on bullet and powder and you MIGHT be OK?

March 18, 2005, 02:46 PM	#11
cobra81 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 336	Just got a chance to check these replies.....finally got some warm (enough) weather here in Illinois to do some serious shooting. I'm getting 20 fps avg. more over my chrony with the non-wadded loads of SR4759 and the 110 gr. V-Max bullets. Haven't run into any problems with either load, but I guess being used to 30-06 loads running 60-70% load density, I have to consciously remember to tilt the muzzle upward before shooting to get those 27 gr. loads to the bottom of the shell when shooting the loads without wads. BTW, Paul, the 1/4 piece of toilet tissue you recommended is what I've been using. I really like the lower recoil and I cannot gripe about the accuracy of the Hornady 110 gr. V-Max. I picked up some 2400 powder and will purchase some Unique shortly. Have never shot cast bullets, but might have to look at expanding into that area of reloading. Looks interesting. Paul, you mention using .310 size cast bullets....is that because of the softness of the lead vs. copper jacket?

March 18, 2005, 04:13 PM	#12
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I've loaded and shot a 110g lead roundnose (intended for 30 M1 Carbine) into 30/06 and had no problems, no backed out primers or anything. The charge was 12.0g of Unique.

March 18, 2005, 06:27 PM	#13
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,801	Cobra and Edward. Cobra, I've found that by using bullets sized to .310" that leading is cut down and accuracy is improved. I've just started playing around with bullets sized to .311" and so far, results are interesting. I haven't done enough to make a decent judgement call though. The .310s work just fine though. I'm considering trying to shoot groups at 600 yards next, but I'm not sure my scopes have enough elevation adjustment in them to do that. Also, take note of my comments to Edward 429451. Edward. You probably already know this, but just in case, don't use the brass from those light loads for full power loads down the road. You will run into headspace problems as when the primer fires off the charge, the case is driven forward pushing the shoulder back. However, while there is sufficient pressure to push the bullet out of the barrel, there is not enough to force the case bad and allow it to expand enough to fill out and form to the chamber. I keep all my brass for cast bullet loads well separated from the full power load brass. Shooting cast bullets is like getting a higher education in the handloading game. Anybody can read a loading manual and get decent results from the get go, but with cast bullets, well there is more work involved. However, once you get started, you'll find it to be addictive as hell. This must be true as I've been doing it for 55 years now and still haven't kicked the habit. I don't think I want to either. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

March 18, 2005, 09:56 PM	#15
drinks Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Posts: 405	reduced loads Edward, I have been loading cast bullets only 49 years, so am still sorta new to it, but for larger cases and smaller volumes of faster powder, I use the Lyman wad, a 5/8 " square of 1/4 " quilt batting tamped on the powder with a pencil eraser end. A 24x60 " roll at 1.99 will do you for years. Don

March 20, 2005, 12:02 PM	#16
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I've been chewing on this a bit, and have a question. Ii loaded some 30/06's awhile back with a starting load out of Speer's manual, and got high primers. I wasn't going for a reduced load par se, just beginning to work a load up with new powder. It seems to me that these high primer loads are to be suspect of shoulder setback also. When the primer/charge goes off, the case is forced forwards, setting back the shoulder but not enough force to set the case back against the breech/boltface, allowing the primer room to setback somewhat. Would it be a reasonable assumption to say/suspect that the shoulder has set back the same amount as the high primer protrudes? I haven't been reloading rifle cartridges near as long as I have been handgun. I was previously unaware about the shoulder setback issue (in this context) and as far as high primers go, figured, add more powder, the case wasn't necessarily trashed for high power loads. I'm now thinking differently. I haven't loaded those high primer cases again, though they are ready to go. You guys now have me thinking that I should trash these cases. These high primer loads were loaded with a medium heavy bullet. Would case gauging these cases show me that the shoulder was set back on this brass? (I've been using the rifle chamber for /06.)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search