Rifle Powder Volumes

[lawsonron]

I have yet to see any published lists of rifle powder volumes. Can anyone provide information as to which of these powders takes up more/less space in a cartridge:

IMR 7828 SSC, H-4831SC, RL22 or RL25

To explain, in order of powder above, if I were to measure 50 grains of each and place in a .25-06 cartridge, which would take up the least to most space...

Thanks

[Rifleman1776]

Apparently you do not reload.
The easiest way to find out is to try and see for yourself.

[Scorch]

There are lists of powder density (weight/volume). That will not give you the loading density (% fill in the case) because of varying charges for a given cartridge. However, you can put 1 and 1 together by finding the powder that will come closest to filling the case by finding the appropriate powder on the density table and using the lower density powders.

[lawsonron]

I just found this on the internet: http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm....ng-powder.html

In short, it suggests placing a specific bullet in a cartridge sans powder and primer. The bullet should be seated at the depth that it would be used in a loaded cartridge. Using a hypodermic needle, fill the case with water and weigh with the water inside....then compare with the same case without water....the difference is the case capacity....density is then the ratio of the powder charge to the case capacity....all makes sense BUT this would mean that all 50 grains of powder take up the same space.....that's OK but I'm surprised if that's true...

[Scorch]

the difference is the case capacity

The difference is case capacity in grains of water. Grains of water is a measure used by reloaders for just this kind of question, but it is not equivalent to grains of powder needed to load the cartridge. Translate into cubic inches or cubic centimeters in order to be able to use information you will find in a powder density chart.

[Doodlebugger45]

This will get you on the right track. I think the units are g/cc, so some conversion would be necessary to calculate the exact volume for 50 grains. But it shows you the relative bulk density of one powder to another. For instance, it shows that Trail Boss is the fluffiest powder EVER.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD'S.pdf

[PA-Joe]

They don't do this because you reload based upon grains of powder. Each lot of powder has a slightly different density. Lee spoons are typically low by several grains.

[NWPilgrim]

The Lee table give you the density of the powders so that should give you the order.

From the Nosler reloading manual which gives case "load density" (percent of case filled) for each powder load:

50.0 gr of IMR7828 = 79% (starting load)
50.0 gr of IMR 4831 = 79% (mid-range, though IMR not H)
50.5 gr of RL22 = 79%

No listing for RL25 under .25-06. Slower powders tend to be less dense so it is probably a little of 79%.

They are all pretty close to the same density.

[Shoney]

The article that lawsonron (by the way WELCOME TO TFL! ron) posted has some caveats that are way out of line, The literature makes the statements that never exceed 95% load density and never go below 80% load density.

I would point out that the Nosler Manual regularly lists accuracy loads over 100% and also lists accuracy loads under 70%. Read Gunners den with interest, but also consider the data from Nosler and other Data manuals.

[TXGunNut]

Welcome to the asylum, lawsonron!
Good points on the load density, Shoney. I consider it at times when testing a powder and in my last loading project a load with a high density performed best. I wouldn't select a powder based on density but in this case, of powders tested, it worked out. An earlier pet load also had excellent accuracy with a max load of a slightly denser powder and high density as well. There's something to this high load density thing but I don't think it should be a dominating factor in powder selection.

[amamnn]

Quickload will give you an approximate load density for every powder charge you calculate using the program. It is approximate because of lot to lot variance.

http://www.neconos.com/details3.htm

[lawsonron]

Thanks all for being patient with this newcomer to reloading.

Kind Regards
Ron