Carcano?

[Webleymkv]

Quote:
The action is quite strong

From what I have read this statement seems to be in error.

Well, the result of a peirced primer on some surplus ammunition in my M1891 Calvary Carbine would dictate that it is indeed quite strong. The rifle suffered no damage at all other than a sticky bolt.

Also, here's an article by Dave Emary of Hornady.

http://personal.stevens.edu/~glibera...ano/emary.html

In particular, notice this passage

The materials used in the Carcano are excellent. These rifles were made from special steels perfected by the Czechs, for which the Italians paid royalties. If you have ever tried doing any work on a Carcano receiver you will find out just how hard and tough the steel is. The Carcano has also received a reputation as being a “weak” design. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Italians made a small run of Carcanos early in WW II chambered for 8 X 57 JS. The Germans rechambered some Carcanos to 8 X 57 JS late in WW II. These rifles were also proofed for this cartridge. The CIP minimum suggested proof pressure for the 8 x 57 JS cartridge is 73,500 psi. I hardly call this a weak action.

The best case I can make for the strength of the Carcano was a personal experience attempting to blow one up for a hunter safety course video. I was asked by the Department of Game and Fish of New Mexico about 12 years ago to help them with this. At the time I was one of the ones ignorant about the Carcano, believing it to be a weak action and easy to take apart. Well, the morale to this story was a full case of Bullseye failed to do anything significant to the action or barrel. We finally had to fill a cartridge case with C4 explosive and detonate it to get anything that looked like what we wanted. One other incident I have experienced with the Carcano further convinces me of the great strength of these actions. In my early experiments with .268” bullets, and loading data for them, I had several incidents of extreme pressure. The bolt had to be opened with a hammer and the cartridge case appeared to be a belted magnum. The headspace of the gun had grown slightly but otherwise was fine and has been fired many times since. I know from my experience as a ballistician that pressures in excess of 90,000 psi are required to do this type of damage to a cartridge case. A good condition Carcano rifle is as safe and strong as any other military bolt-action rifle you will encounter. This incident will be discussed later, as it was caused by propellants that should not be used in the 6.5 X 52 because of their ignition characteristics.

[Scorch]

Also, read PO Ackley's write-up on his attempts to blow up actions. Few actions survived his experiment, one of which was a Mannlicher-Carcano 1891. Since he was actually trying to blow them up, it speaks highly of the action's strength. Several actions we like to think of as very strong were among the first to fail. Carcanos are not pretty, but they are pretty strong.

[TEDDY]

sarco has clips about 3 for $10.
one should subscribe to shot gun news even take the one a month subscription.there are several outfits that have parts.
numrick has 5 rd berthier. so does sarco.

[TEDDY]

more false statements on carcanos by people that read it in papers writen by writers that have no idea about guns.I have had all kinds of militay rifles.and some that were real junkers.I have fired them all.I have a 1903 low number and shoot it.the barrel is perfect so I shoot lead and can shoot 1" groups ate 100yds.even at my age 84.most of you are used to post WW2 guns.my first was a 73 win in 32/20 and I shot it many times with my reloads of full case of 30/06 powder,dont even know what it was.there was no one to teach me and I learned by trial and error.I used a win tong tool and mould.the WW1 mauser I got for .10 cents was loaded with bulk shot gun and around 220 lead bullet.not too accurate as the bullet melted on way out.
look what you have computer sites to ask at,books and all kinds of tools.

[JaDub]

I picked up a Carcano M91 long rifle the other day and am now looking for a Carcano specific forum. Which would you recommend??

Thanks, JaDub new member

[publius]

Since this old thread has been revived, I have a question. Isn't the Arisaka actually .25 cal. despite it's name? Seems like I've read that somewhere before.

[Mike Irwin]

I know of no Carcano-specific forums. Google may be your friend.


"Isn't the Arisaka actually .25 cal. despite it's name?"

No. It's .26 caliber.

Nominal bullet diameter should be .264, but apparently ranged anywhere from .260 to .265, depending on where and when the cartridges were manufactured.

I shot my Type 38 a lot with Speer .264s and got pretty good accuracy.

[Buzzcook]

publius I've read several WWII novels that called the Arisaka and other Japanese guns .25 caliber.
Probably off the cuff conversions from metric to standard.

I shot a Carcano in the seventies. iirc paper plates at 100yds didn't stand a chance. The action wasn't smooth but it did improve after shooting the thing a lot. After about a year my friend sold or traded the rifle off.
It wasn't till later that I learned how awful the Carcano was.

[longranger]

Completely forgot, What should I do to preserve it? Its in REALY great condition (I think) and I would love to keep it that way (but still take it out to the range some )

I stopped oiling my guns a few years ago,oil migrates to undesirable locations in actions and turns into crap that is hard to remove.
Wax your guns after thoroughly cleaning with solvent, absorb all the excess solvent with cloth baby diapers(Wally World 12 for $4.00)Wax with good carnuba based wax.There are gun specific wax' are hard to find and expensive,just good ol Johnson paste wax works well or auto wax.Mueseums wax their guns no oil,good enough for them good enough for me.No more rust color on my wiping rags.Clean up after a gun has been waxed is superior to oil.

[James K]

WWII GI's routinely called the Japanese 6.5 and 7.7 rifles the ".25 Jap" and the ".30 Jap." It was widely believed that the ".25 Jap" was little more powerful than a .22 Long Rifle.

Jim

[SigP6Carry]

While I don't own a Carcano myself, I do have a bit of an opinion of them. My opinions comes from a mix of reading conspiracy theories about Kennedy, reading about surplus rifles and trying to figure out which service rifle I want to compliment my Mosin with.

My opinion of the Carcano is that most bad press about the rifle itself is easily over exaggerated, and after seeing Penn Gillette (is that how you spell his name?) cycle the gun so smoothly and beautifully on his show "bull$#!&" I wanted one all the more. Any battle rifle from the 1890's to 1950's will all have the same things going for it, aside from the loading, stripping and cycling procedures. So, I believe the Carcano is a great rifle, especially if you're into reloading and can find the enbloc clips. I personally hate rifles with enbloc clips because of the lack of an integral magazine without that clip (this goes for Garands, Steyrs and Carcanos).

But, yeah, the Carcano is a very underrated rifle.

[gyvel]

I concur with earlier poster that your gun is an M42 rifle put into an M38 stock. Not correct.

[Mike Irwin]

Apparently after the war, when the 7.7 became more common in the US, it also developed the nickname .31 Jap.

A guy at my hunting camp always referred to his son's 7.7 as a .31 Jap.

[mapsjanhere]

Gunboards do have an Italian Firearms Forum that's mostly Carcano.

[Gunplummer]

Three weeks ago I went to the range with my buddy and his boys. I took along a few surplus guns to shoot for fun and one was my scoped 6.5 Arisaka. I had a box of surplus chinese 6.5 from the late 40's to early 50's and wanted to get rid of it. Out of a box the size of a shoebox with mixed manufactured ammo, we had 4 maybe 5 miss-fires. The one kid had a pre-64 Model 70 with .257 Roberts reloads and could not match the groups out of the Arisaka with junk ammo. It is rare when a 6.5 Arisaka shoots bad. Some of the early 6.5's had a different twist rate and when using ammo loaded for war production rifles the accuracy will not be there. Anyway, I picked out the Japanese production ammo and also found some with a Kynoch (spelling?) headstamp. Anybody know anything about that ammo?

[Mike Irwin]

"and also found some with a Kynoch (spelling?) headstamp."

Were they FMJ or were they sporting rounds?

After the war there were a LOT of Arisakas, good ones, floating around Asia, and many of them were pressed into service as sporting rifles and military guns. Kynoch could have supplied ammo for either one of those purposes.

[Tamara]

Also, bringbacks to the UK and Commonwealth countries were entirely possible at the time.

Even the British home islands were pretty casual about long guns in the '40s and '50s.

[Gunplummer]

Sorry, was gone a few days. Yes it is full metal jacket with a Kynoch head stamp.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

This thread kinda turned into an Jap thread

I reciently picked up a Beretta Carcano, from one of my buddys that is in really good shape... I assume this would be one of the better collectors, since it was manufactured by Beretta ???

any clue why the length of pull was so short on these rifles ??? were they sending 14 year old kids into battle ???

I have a slip on butt pad that adds an inch... any other suggestions ???

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by magnum wheel man

any clue why the length of pull was so short on these rifles ???

1) Folks were shorter. If the average Italian troop was 5'7", I'd be shocked.

2) They were going to be fighting in woolen jackets with leather outer load-bearing suspenders.

3) I don't know this for a fact, but I'd imagine that the ideals of marksmanship have evolved in the half-century since then.

[jtb1967]

It makes you wonder how the average small sized Japanese solider of the period handled the long Type 38!