Camping/sleeping while armed - Page 2

7.62 man · July 13, 2021, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmstr

and 2-legged a@@hats.

Funny you should mention them, I was tent camping on a local beach with some boaters. There was a loud party going on, on the far end of the beach & I sacked out about 10:30 that night. The party was loud & I couldn't sleep, about 11:30 I could see a shadow approaching the tent from the light of the bonfire. I grabbed my gun that I keep in a pocket holster next to an bright LED flashlight, against my side so I can feel where it is.
This a@@hat decided he wanted to try to sleep on top my tent with a running belly flop on top of it.
As he hit the tent I blocked him & slammed the top of the gun in his side about three times, then pushed him off me & the tent from the inside. By the time he stopped moaning & crying about his ribs hurting, I was out of the tent with the flashlight on & the gun pointed at him.
He saw the gun, jumped up & run to the other end of the beach screaming "Don't shoot me"
We didn't have any more problem the rest of the night. LOL

JustJake · July 14, 2021, 05:16 PM

Quote:

I’ve been where you had to carry a gun in your sleep.

Dreamland.

Cosmodragoon · July 15, 2021, 12:35 AM

The empty-chamber and empty-cylinder methods present drawbacks. Luckily, a much better solution already exists. Get a holster with a snap closure. A thumb break can be fast and natural to release while providing a welcome layer of safety. (As always, you want a holster that completely protects the trigger guard.)

A revolver or DA/SA semi can offer additional safety in being at rest with a double action trigger. This dovetails nicely with the retention of a snap closure that covers the hammer. I also like having hammer feedback upon holstering.

shurshot · July 16, 2021, 05:03 AM

"As he hit the tent I blocked him & slammed the top of the gun in his side about three times, then pushed him off me & the tent from the inside. By the time he stopped moaning & crying about his ribs hurting, I was out of the tent with the flashlight on & the gun pointed at him." (7.62 Man)

??? So an intoxicated man who jumped on your tent constituted a threat level that justified pointing a loaded gun at him AFTER you had already pistol whipped and injured him? Did he have a weapon? Was your life in danger?

Or was he just some drunk kid who made a dumb mistake and needs a 12 step meeting?

Pistoler0 · July 16, 2021, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon

The empty-chamber and empty-cylinder methods present drawbacks. Luckily, a much better solution already exists. Get a holster with a snap closure. A thumb break can be fast and natural to release while providing a welcome layer of safety. (As always, you want a holster that completely protects the trigger guard.)

A revolver or DA/SA semi can offer additional safety in being at rest with a double action trigger. This dovetails nicely with the retention of a snap closure that covers the hammer. I also like having hammer feedback upon holstering.

Also a DA/SA semi auto pistol with a safety that can be engaged when the pistol is decocked might be excellent for this purpose too, H&K SP30SK for instance.

JustJake · July 16, 2021, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Also a DA/SA semi auto pistol with a safety that can be engaged when the pistol is decocked might be excellent for this purpose too, H&K SP30SK for instance.

Or maybe 3rd Gen S&Ws ... the DA/SA pistols with the slide-mounted decock/safety lever in the old 45XX- and 10XX-series?

dgludwig · July 16, 2021, 02:49 PM

Quote:

"As he hit the tent I blocked him & slammed the top of the gun in his side about three times, then pushed him off me & the tent from the inside. By the time he stopped moaning & crying about his ribs hurting, I was out of the tent with the flashlight on & the gun pointed at him." (7.62 Man)

??? So an intoxicated man who jumped on your tent constituted a threat level that justified pointing a loaded gun at him AFTER you had already pistol whipped and injured him? Did he have a weapon? Was your life in danger?

Or was he just some drunk kid who made a dumb mistake and needs a 12 step meeting?

Thinking the exact same thing, shurshot. Guns should only be pointed at real threats. I can't think of a scenario where a person who desires to hurt or kill you "belly flops" on top of your tent. Though, film footage of the incident might have made for a winning candidate in AFV's contest for the most funny video.

Kreyzhorse · July 16, 2021, 06:23 PM

Gun in holster, holster close by along with a flashlight. Usually cover both with a shirt or something. Gun is loaded with a round chambered.

I figure if I need the gun at night, I need it right then, readily accessible and ready to use.

Crankylove · July 18, 2021, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:
"As he hit the tent I blocked him & slammed the top of the gun in his side about three times, then pushed him off me & the tent from the inside. By the time he stopped moaning & crying about his ribs hurting, I was out of the tent with the flashlight on & the gun pointed at him." (7.62 Man)

??? So an intoxicated man who jumped on your tent constituted a threat level that justified pointing a loaded gun at him AFTER you had already pistol whipped and injured him? Did he have a weapon? Was your life in danger?

Or was he just some drunk kid who made a dumb mistake and needs a 12 step meeting?
Thinking the exact same thing, shurshot. Guns should only be pointed at real threats. I can't think of a scenario where a person who desires to hurt or kill you "belly flops" on top of your tent. Though, film footage of the incident might have made for a winning candidate in AFV's contest for the most funny video.

Being dark, and not knowing exactly what drunk guys intentions are, my gun would have been out as well. May not be pointed at him, but would be ready for use.

My tent /trailer is my home, away from home. It’s no different than checking the door gun in hand when some idiot comes beating the crap out of it at 2am, yelling incoherently, thinking it’s his buddies house, that lives on the next street over.

shurshot · July 19, 2021, 05:33 AM

"It’s no different than checking the door gun in hand when some idiot comes beating the crap out of it at 2am, yelling incoherently, thinking it’s his buddies house, that lives on the next street over."(Crankylove).

Huge difference between an intoxicated individual acting foolishly and an actual legitimate deadly threat that justifies the use of a gun. I agree 100%.

If the drunk in question happens to be a son, nephew or grandson, wouldn't one want an armed tent dweller (or home owner), to utilize some restraint and NOT point a loaded gun (finger on trigger, heart pounding, obviously scared), in your loved ones direction unless they absolutely have NO other choice?

Too easy to pull the trigger in a tense situation on someone who isn't an actual threat. Once that bullet leaves the muzzle, there is no stopping it, no reset button like on a video game.

JustJake · July 19, 2021, 07:33 AM

Here's what ya do with out-of-control idjits, whether it's your tent opening or your front door at 2 a.m.:

Throw a cup of boiling hot coffee in his face, and then when he's screamin' like a beeatch 'cause his eyeballs are melting

... you junk-punch has ass into next week.

Problem solved. No need for gunfire. Waste of ammo avoided.

Carl the Floor Walker · July 19, 2021, 08:16 AM

I have spent many nights in the swamps and woods I hike/Scout/hunt in for years. Some times just too far in to make it back and would just use a poncho to sleep over night until sun up. And the area has plenty of bears. But I have no problem sleeping at all. In fact very peaceful. Occasionally a bear has poked around and they are like raccoons. Just a nuisance and will scatter easily. And I carry a small revolver and keep it next to me.
I do not camp in Public areas. That does give me huge concern. People scare me. At night you have no idea what they are capable of. And I WOULD NEVER let Children sleep alone under any conditions if I was with a family. I know of people that give their kids their own tent and they have theirs. The idea of waking up the next morning and your kids gone is right out of horror books. Look at the murders along the Appalachian Trail.
A prime trail just waiting for predators and I do not mean like a Bear.

JustJake · July 19, 2021, 08:35 AM

Bears are predators ...

He who would be The Wise Woodsman is prepared for all predators, whether they ambulate on 4-legs or 2.

Carl the Floor Walker · July 19, 2021, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJake

Bears are predators ...

He who would be The Wise Woodsman is prepared for all predators, whether they ambulate on 4-legs or 2.

Lol, sorry, Black Bears are NOT human predators. At least not in my state. Maybe in a Stephen King book, but not in the woods and swamps. And as far as being prepared, worry about yourself. As I mentioned, I carry a revolver. (For any Human predator which is another Human) And rare to come across one back there.

JustJake · July 19, 2021, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Lol, sorry, Black Bears are NOT human predators.

LOL! ... Wrong, Bucky.

Here's a veteran black bear guide explaining just how tough and predatory black bears can be:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClexOj6S_OE

HiBC · July 19, 2021, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Lol, sorry, Black Bears are NOT human predators. At least not in my state. Maybe in a Stephen King book, but not in the woods and swamps. And as far as being prepared, worry about yourself. As I mentioned, I carry a revolver. (For any Human predator which is another Human) And rare to come across one back there.

Carl,if you had started your statement with "Most" I would agree with you.
Bears,black bears included, are individuals,subject to making their own rules.

They might be the exception,but some black bears will kill and eat you,given the opportunity.

I don't think they use maps,so the state probably does not matter.

I fully agree,what preparation you make is up to you.

Carl the Floor Walker · July 19, 2021, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiBC

Carl,if you had started your statement with "Most" I would agree with you.
Bears,black bears included, are individuals,subject to making their own rules.

They might be the exception,but some black bears will kill and eat you,given the opportunity.

I don't think they use maps,so the state probably does not matter.

I fully agree,what preparation you make is up to you.

Sorry, this is not North Dakota. Been in these woods of the South way too long to go for any of this. Never once have we even heard of a Bear Attack, Never. Possibly up north in some of the Public Campgrounds where they feed them etc. And my experience with them in nature has been for decades. Yes, I will say that any animal including a Whitetail deer can be dangerous. But I am not hunting them, sitting over a feed etc. AND NEVER once have we ever had a predator Bear looking for any humans.
This guy that "Bucky is linking too can say what he wants for his state and his experience hunting them where he lives.
But no, this is not at all real where I live and I am not about to start carrying a 10mm handgun for a Bear. And to be quite frank, I do not know a single soul that does nor has.
Although I may start since a Big Foot was spotted a few years ago

And I would bet that a Sasquatch will take down more people in the Next decade than any Predator Black Bear.
No black bears cannot read a map, and even some have even come right into our city, just had one last spring. No big deal, but I doubt any Maine, Wyoming black bears have made it down to Tidewater Virginia.

But if by some Miraculous wonder a Black Bear does attack me and eat me, then I guess that ts just bad luck.

As the saying goes. "Sometimes you eat the Bear, Sometimes the Bear eats you."

HiBC · July 19, 2021, 12:43 PM

On the topic of the drunk jumping on the tent:

I question using a gun I assume is loaded (As they ALL are) to beat someone in the ribs with . The odds of a negligent discharge are high. If you intend to shoot the guy,pull the trigger. If you do not intend to shoot the guy,it must be a bad idea to shoot him. Don't brandish in a careless way likely to "accidentally" shoot him.. It won't work out in court and you will likely deeply regret having shot a human being

In an SD situation, its SD if you can justify you shot someone with the means and intent to kill you.

Its different if you are using a gun for punishment or intimidation.
Thats probably a crime.

Regardless how a story sounds for a "Good Old Boy Beer Story" ,when we are in real life, We had best consider how the story will sound before a judge and prosecutor,and what a jury will think of it.

Not every drunk jackass needs to be shot. And sometimes its the guy who introduces the gun who is acting the jackass.

I'm not a moderator, but some stories might give the anti-gunners something to work with.

No doubt the jackass drunk tent jumper was wrong.

He may not have been the only one

Carl the Floor Walker · July 19, 2021, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiBC

On the topic of the drunk jumping on the tent:

I question using a gun I assume is loaded (As they ALL are) to beat someone in the ribs with . The odds of a negligent discharge are high. If you intend to shoot the guy,pull the trigger. If you do not intend to shoot the guy,it must be a bad idea to shoot him. Don't brandish in a careless way likely to "accidentally" shoot him.. It won't work out in court and you will likely deeply regret having shot a human being

In an SD situation, its SD if you can justify you shot someone with the means and intent to kill you.

Its different if you are using a gun for punishment or intimidation.
Thats probably a crime.

Regardless how a story sounds for a "Good Old Boy Beer Story" ,when we are in real life, We had best consider how the story will sound before a judge and prosecutor,and what a jury will think of it.

Not every drunk jackass needs to be shot. And sometimes its the guy who introduces the gun who is acting the jackass.

I'm not a moderator, but some stories might give the anti-gunners something to work with.

No doubt the jackass drunk tent jumper was wrong.

He may not have been the only one

The idea of shooting a drunk kid or kids pulling a stupid stunt is a scary thing to think about. And in Public Camp grounds you should consider that Alcohol will be consumed and in a lot of places a Police Officer is not around for miles.
You make a good point. And in a public camp ground, all you have is a tent, you simply cannot shut and lock the door and wait for police. You have a confrontation in the making and this is where danger pops her head. Confrontations can escalate real fast. And if you even pull your weapon, then you may still end up in jail. (Brandishing is against the law in my state) Your word against theirs. Some food for thought for sure.

jmr40 · July 19, 2021, 02:40 PM

I've been hiking/camping in N. GA since the 1970's. While it is true that 2 legged predators are by far the most likely problem black bear are common in the areas where I spend most of my time.

I've also spent a fair amount of time in the Smokys and have camped all over the west including Yellowstone. Most bear don't want any trouble and while I've seen many, I've never felt threatened. But bear do attack. There have been 3 people killed and several more injured by black bear within a 2 hour drive from my house in the last dozen years.

Virtually all problem black bear are those who have been fed by other humans. It isn't uncommon for hikers to see a bear and put out food to get a better picture. Then the bear expects food from every human they see. Most aren't actually attacking you, just aggressively trying to get your pack for food. But you could still end up injured or dead.

We had a bear a few years ago that got good at sneaking up behind hikers and stealing the packs off their backs as they walked. It was eventually killed.

With that in mind I choose a gun for 2 legged predators 1st, but something big enough to work on bear in a pinch. I used to carry a 3" or 4" 357 mag revolver and that still isn't a bad option.

But anymore I prefer some sort of semi. A 9mm loaded with some of the heavier 147 gr hardcast bullets from Buffalo Bore and Double Tap work pretty well on bear if you have to use it. I think the gun you have is a sensible minimum, but if in bear country would advise looking into the better loads for it.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...uct_list&c=155

They worked on an Alaskan Brown bear.

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/alask...-a-9mm-pistol/

But I just feel better with a 10mm or 45 loaded with similar bullets. I used a G29 in 10mm for years, but wouldn't sleep with a loaded chamber.

I thought about keeping it in a holster, but still needed 2 hands to get it out of a holster not attached to my hip. I found it just as fast and a lot easier to just leave the chamber empty. Another reason for a semi is the ability to attach a light for night time use.

My go-to camping gun more recently is a Smith M&P 45 Compact with a 1911 style safety. I can attach a light, leave the chamber loaded with the safety on and use 8 round mags loaded with 255 gr Buffalo Bore ammo when carrying. Or use the longer full size 10 round mags at night. One mag loaded with conventional HP ammo, another with bear loads.

jmstr · July 19, 2021, 02:47 PM

If someone jumps on my tent, I am not going to wait to get out of it and assess if he is a threat or not before grabbing my gun. I won't have finger on the trigger or safety off until I KNOW it is a threat, but I wouldn't be thinking 'oh- it is probably some dumb kid'. I'd be HOPING that- but that is different.

MY camping story with guns:

December 29-30th, 2001, I was camping on the Navajo [Dine] Reservation, near Canyon De Chelley. The public campground I was in was about 10-15 miles from the nearest town.

It was raining, so I decided to shift stuff around and we'd sleep IN our car, rather than the tent. [the tent spots were all compressed, and it was obvious all water would pool in the bottom of the tent.]

Around 2-3am, I am woken up by a knocking on the passenger window. It was a 20-something woman that appeared either stoned or drunk [or both].

She was asking if we had any money to help her out as she was trying to get back to California and was 'rolled by the indians, man. I was F***in ROLLED by the indians!'- in her words, in the local town we'd just passed. I cracked my passenger window to allow clear communication, but not open enough to get a finger in to shove the window down. [Note: CA was the OPPOSITE direction from the town from where we were camped. We were definitely on the New Mexico side of Town, on a road that either dead ended or went to New Mexico.]

I kept telling her to go away and I had no money. She kept behaving as if she was drunk.

The entire time I was watching the driver's side mirror and rear view mirror in case someone was sneaking up to smash it and grab me, but saw nothing [pitch black, 2-3am, 10+ miles from a town of less than 20K people and raining.]

After about 3 brief interchanges, I put my hand into my bag and removed my pistol [Kahr K9 at time], expecting it to get hairy at any moment. I told my friend to scoot down as far as possible and apologized, as I told her that any firing might be right over her head, with hot brass ejecting. She scooted down [we'd had this conversation before the trip] and got ready.

The crazy lady heard me and saw me pull the pistol out to be ready: Instantly she 'sobered up'- saying 'sorry to bother you. No problem here, man. I've got no problem. I'm going.' and she high tailed it away.

I stayed up for the rest of the night with pistol in hand, pretending to 'sleep', and nothing ever happened.

9mm with 124gr hollowpoints for 2-legged predators was my choice for this trip, based on the fact we would be in campgrounds and short trails in parks, rather than really 'outdoors'. People were my main concerns when planning this trip.

It was amazing how fast she became coherent once there was a gun in play by someone who wasn't focused solely on her.

Another instance where having a firearm probably prevented violence, but was never reported.

JMR40- I wish I could get an M&P 45 Compact, but am in CA. It isn't 'on our list', or I'd prefer that. I find that the few M&Ps with thumb safeties that I HAVE held, well, the safety was too easy to switch off/on. I prefer the heavier 'click' of the safety on my 1911 or BHP [or Taurus PT99].

I hear you about concerns about a Glock with a round in the chamber and tent sleeping, though.

I also tend to use the BuffaloBore website as a index of the most powerful 'hunting' loads for handguns.

I went Glock G30, but have a .45-10mm conversion barrel for it [which has worked JUST FINE for me, but is problematic enough that they are not made any longer, i hear.] I am never sure if I want to do .45Super rounds or hot 10mm rounds in it for woods backpacking.

Both put it into the category of mid-range .357mag rounds, but with 4 more in it than my GP100 [CA here: 10 round max for me].

Mainah · July 19, 2021, 08:34 PM

When I was 15 me and a couple of buddies went camping, our parents dropped us off at a state forrest site. One of my buddies stole a bottle of vodka from his folks. I'm sure we made a few neighbors miserable that night.

We also sat in our tent and shot holes in the roof with a slingshot, and after we passed out we got heavy rain. So there was some punishment.

As an adult I've moved sites a couple of times when I saw trouble.

JustJake · July 19, 2021, 09:20 PM

Quote:

* * * But anymore I prefer some sort of semi. A 9mm loaded with some of the heavier 147 gr hardcast bullets from Buffalo Bore and Double Tap work pretty well on bear if you have to use it. I think the gun you have is a sensible minimum, but if in bear country would advise looking into the better loads for it.
They worked on an Alaskan Brown bear.

That Shumaker dude got lucky. He risked two other peoples lives trying to "prove" 9mm HC boolits could stop a bear (in his case, an enraged sow).

Quote:

But I just feel better with a 10mm or 45 loaded with similar bullets. I used a G29 in 10mm for years, but wouldn't sleep with a loaded chamber.

Resident Alaskans pack something chambered in 10mm AUTO when out & about in the bad bush back-country where the big bruins roam. Why? 'Cause it works (if properly loaded with real 10mm ammo):

Alaskans Stop Grizzly Bear Charge with Glock 10mm:
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/10/ala...rf-richardson/

Crankylove · July 19, 2021, 09:23 PM

Quote:

If the drunk in question happens to be a son, nephew or grandson, wouldn't one want an armed tent dweller (or home owner), to utilize some restraint and NOT point a loaded gun (finger on trigger, heart pounding, obviously scared), in your loved ones direction unless they absolutely have NO other choice?

So, are they not a threat, just because they are under the influence?

If tent jumping guy was stone cold sober, but just being an ass, does he warrant a weapon pointed at him for the same actions as drunk guy?

At what point while you’re struggling to get out of your collapsed tent, in the dark, having just been assaulted out of the blue, do you stop and tell yourself “oh, he’s just drunk. It’s ok, he’s no threat, nothing bad could happen, it’s not like he’s sober.”

You do you, I’ll do me. For me, just cause someone is under the influence, doesn’t mean they get a free pass, doesn’t mean they can’t pose a threat.

shurshot · July 19, 2021, 09:52 PM

"For me, just cause someone is under the influence, doesn’t mean they get a free pass, doesn’t mean they can’t pose a threat."

First off, I hope you never encounter a situation as previously described. Second, convincing yourself you are justified in your actions while armed with a gun is one thing.

Convincing the District Attorney's Office is something altogether different.

Be careful.

July 16, 2021, 05:03 AM	#29
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	"As he hit the tent I blocked him & slammed the top of the gun in his side about three times, then pushed him off me & the tent from the inside. By the time he stopped moaning & crying about his ribs hurting, I was out of the tent with the flashlight on & the gun pointed at him." (7.62 Man) ??? So an intoxicated man who jumped on your tent constituted a threat level that justified pointing a loaded gun at him AFTER you had already pistol whipped and injured him? Did he have a weapon? Was your life in danger? Or was he just some drunk kid who made a dumb mistake and needs a 12 step meeting? Last edited by shurshot; July 16, 2021 at 05:08 AM.

July 16, 2021, 06:23 PM	#33
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	Gun in holster, holster close by along with a flashlight. Usually cover both with a shirt or something. Gun is loaded with a round chambered. I figure if I need the gun at night, I need it right then, readily accessible and ready to use. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

July 19, 2021, 05:33 AM	#35
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	"It’s no different than checking the door gun in hand when some idiot comes beating the crap out of it at 2am, yelling incoherently, thinking it’s his buddies house, that lives on the next street over."(Crankylove). Huge difference between an intoxicated individual acting foolishly and an actual legitimate deadly threat that justifies the use of a gun. I agree 100%. If the drunk in question happens to be a son, nephew or grandson, wouldn't one want an armed tent dweller (or home owner), to utilize some restraint and NOT point a loaded gun (finger on trigger, heart pounding, obviously scared), in your loved ones direction unless they absolutely have NO other choice? Too easy to pull the trigger in a tense situation on someone who isn't an actual threat. Once that bullet leaves the muzzle, there is no stopping it, no reset button like on a video game. Last edited by shurshot; July 19, 2021 at 05:51 AM.

July 19, 2021, 07:33 AM	#36
JustJake Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2020 Posts: 497	Here's what ya do with out-of-control idjits, whether it's your tent opening or your front door at 2 a.m.: Throw a cup of boiling hot coffee in his face, and then when he's screamin' like a beeatch 'cause his eyeballs are melting ... you junk-punch has ass into next week. Problem solved. No need for gunfire. Waste of ammo avoided. __________________ I use the Jake Brake every chance I get. Don't care if it annoys you. Hear me now?!

July 19, 2021, 08:16 AM	#37
Carl the Floor Walker member Join Date: June 3, 2017 Location: South Posts: 1,422	I have spent many nights in the swamps and woods I hike/Scout/hunt in for years. Some times just too far in to make it back and would just use a poncho to sleep over night until sun up. And the area has plenty of bears. But I have no problem sleeping at all. In fact very peaceful. Occasionally a bear has poked around and they are like raccoons. Just a nuisance and will scatter easily. And I carry a small revolver and keep it next to me. I do not camp in Public areas. That does give me huge concern. People scare me. At night you have no idea what they are capable of. And I WOULD NEVER let Children sleep alone under any conditions if I was with a family. I know of people that give their kids their own tent and they have theirs. The idea of waking up the next morning and your kids gone is right out of horror books. Look at the murders along the Appalachian Trail. A prime trail just waiting for predators and I do not mean like a Bear. Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; July 19, 2021 at 09:06 AM.

July 15, 2021, 12:35 AM	#28
Cosmodragoon Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2013 Location: Northeastern US Posts: 1,869	The empty-chamber and empty-cylinder methods present drawbacks. Luckily, a much better solution already exists. Get a holster with a snap closure. A thumb break can be fast and natural to release while providing a welcome layer of safety. (As always, you want a holster that completely protects the trigger guard.) A revolver or DA/SA semi can offer additional safety in being at rest with a double action trigger. This dovetails nicely with the retention of a snap closure that covers the hammer. I also like having hammer feedback upon holstering.

July 19, 2021, 08:35 AM	#38
JustJake Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2020 Posts: 497	Bears are predators ... He who would be The Wise Woodsman is prepared for all predators, whether they ambulate on 4-legs or 2. __________________ I use the Jake Brake every chance I get. Don't care if it annoys you. Hear me now?!

July 19, 2021, 12:43 PM	#43
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	On the topic of the drunk jumping on the tent: I question using a gun I assume is loaded (As they ALL are) to beat someone in the ribs with . The odds of a negligent discharge are high. If you intend to shoot the guy,pull the trigger. If you do not intend to shoot the guy,it must be a bad idea to shoot him. Don't brandish in a careless way likely to "accidentally" shoot him.. It won't work out in court and you will likely deeply regret having shot a human being In an SD situation, its SD if you can justify you shot someone with the means and intent to kill you. Its different if you are using a gun for punishment or intimidation. Thats probably a crime. Regardless how a story sounds for a "Good Old Boy Beer Story" ,when we are in real life, We had best consider how the story will sound before a judge and prosecutor,and what a jury will think of it. Not every drunk jackass needs to be shot. And sometimes its the guy who introduces the gun who is acting the jackass. I'm not a moderator, but some stories might give the anti-gunners something to work with. No doubt the jackass drunk tent jumper was wrong. He may not have been the only one

July 19, 2021, 02:40 PM	#45
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	I've been hiking/camping in N. GA since the 1970's. While it is true that 2 legged predators are by far the most likely problem black bear are common in the areas where I spend most of my time. I've also spent a fair amount of time in the Smokys and have camped all over the west including Yellowstone. Most bear don't want any trouble and while I've seen many, I've never felt threatened. But bear do attack. There have been 3 people killed and several more injured by black bear within a 2 hour drive from my house in the last dozen years. Virtually all problem black bear are those who have been fed by other humans. It isn't uncommon for hikers to see a bear and put out food to get a better picture. Then the bear expects food from every human they see. Most aren't actually attacking you, just aggressively trying to get your pack for food. But you could still end up injured or dead. We had a bear a few years ago that got good at sneaking up behind hikers and stealing the packs off their backs as they walked. It was eventually killed. With that in mind I choose a gun for 2 legged predators 1st, but something big enough to work on bear in a pinch. I used to carry a 3" or 4" 357 mag revolver and that still isn't a bad option. But anymore I prefer some sort of semi. A 9mm loaded with some of the heavier 147 gr hardcast bullets from Buffalo Bore and Double Tap work pretty well on bear if you have to use it. I think the gun you have is a sensible minimum, but if in bear country would advise looking into the better loads for it. https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...uct_list&c=155 They worked on an Alaskan Brown bear. https://www.wideopenspaces.com/alask...-a-9mm-pistol/ But I just feel better with a 10mm or 45 loaded with similar bullets. I used a G29 in 10mm for years, but wouldn't sleep with a loaded chamber. I thought about keeping it in a holster, but still needed 2 hands to get it out of a holster not attached to my hip. I found it just as fast and a lot easier to just leave the chamber empty. Another reason for a semi is the ability to attach a light for night time use. My go-to camping gun more recently is a Smith M&P 45 Compact with a 1911 style safety. I can attach a light, leave the chamber loaded with the safety on and use 8 round mags loaded with 255 gr Buffalo Bore ammo when carrying. Or use the longer full size 10 round mags at night. One mag loaded with conventional HP ammo, another with bear loads. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

July 19, 2021, 02:47 PM	#46
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	If someone jumps on my tent, I am not going to wait to get out of it and assess if he is a threat or not before grabbing my gun. I won't have finger on the trigger or safety off until I KNOW it is a threat, but I wouldn't be thinking 'oh- it is probably some dumb kid'. I'd be HOPING that- but that is different. MY camping story with guns: December 29-30th, 2001, I was camping on the Navajo [Dine] Reservation, near Canyon De Chelley. The public campground I was in was about 10-15 miles from the nearest town. It was raining, so I decided to shift stuff around and we'd sleep IN our car, rather than the tent. [the tent spots were all compressed, and it was obvious all water would pool in the bottom of the tent.] Around 2-3am, I am woken up by a knocking on the passenger window. It was a 20-something woman that appeared either stoned or drunk [or both]. She was asking if we had any money to help her out as she was trying to get back to California and was 'rolled by the indians, man. I was F**in ROLLED by the indians!'- in her words, in the local town we'd just passed. I cracked my passenger window to allow clear communication, but not open enough to get a finger in to shove the window down. [Note: CA was the OPPOSITE direction from the town from where we were camped. We were definitely on the New Mexico side of Town, on a road that either dead ended or went to New Mexico.] I kept telling her to go away and I had no money. She kept behaving as if she was drunk. The entire time I was watching the driver's side mirror and rear view mirror in case someone was sneaking up to smash it and grab me, but saw nothing [pitch black, 2-3am, 10+ miles from a town of less than 20K people and raining.] After about 3 brief interchanges, I put my hand into my bag and removed my pistol [Kahr K9 at time], expecting it to get hairy at any moment. I told my friend to scoot down as far as possible and apologized, as I told her that any firing might be right over her head, with hot brass ejecting. She scooted down [we'd had this conversation before the trip] and got ready. The crazy lady heard me and saw me pull the pistol out to be ready: Instantly she 'sobered up'- saying 'sorry to bother you. No problem here, man. I've got no problem. I'm going.' and she high tailed it away. I stayed up for the rest of the night with pistol in hand, pretending to 'sleep', and nothing ever happened. 9mm with 124gr hollowpoints for 2-legged predators was my choice for this trip, based on the fact we would be in campgrounds and short trails in parks, rather than really 'outdoors'. People were my main concerns when planning this trip. It was amazing* how fast she became coherent once there was a gun in play by someone who wasn't focused solely on her. Another instance where having a firearm probably prevented violence, but was never reported. JMR40- I wish I could get an M&P 45 Compact, but am in CA. It isn't 'on our list', or I'd prefer that. I find that the few M&Ps with thumb safeties that I HAVE held, well, the safety was too easy to switch off/on. I prefer the heavier 'click' of the safety on my 1911 or BHP [or Taurus PT99]. I hear you about concerns about a Glock with a round in the chamber and tent sleeping, though. I also tend to use the BuffaloBore website as a index of the most powerful 'hunting' loads for handguns. I went Glock G30, but have a .45-10mm conversion barrel for it [which has worked JUST FINE for me, but is problematic enough that they are not made any longer, i hear.] I am never sure if I want to do .45Super rounds or hot 10mm rounds in it for woods backpacking. Both put it into the category of mid-range .357mag rounds, but with 4 more in it than my GP100 [CA here: 10 round max for me]. Last edited by jmstr; July 19, 2021 at 02:55 PM.

July 19, 2021, 08:34 PM	#47
Mainah Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2007 Posts: 1,119	When I was 15 me and a couple of buddies went camping, our parents dropped us off at a state forrest site. One of my buddies stole a bottle of vodka from his folks. I'm sure we made a few neighbors miserable that night. We also sat in our tent and shot holes in the roof with a slingshot, and after we passed out we got heavy rain. So there was some punishment. As an adult I've moved sites a couple of times when I saw trouble.

July 19, 2021, 09:52 PM	#50
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	"*For me, just cause someone is under the influence, doesn’t mean they get a free pass, doesn’t mean they can’t pose a threat."* First off, I hope you never encounter a situation as previously described. Second, convincing yourself you are justified in your actions while armed with a gun is one thing. Convincing the District Attorney's Office is something altogether different. Be careful.