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Old August 10, 2015, 08:01 AM   #1
stubbicatt
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Future of lead availability

I don't purport to have any answers, but a question has been nagging me for a little while, so thought I'd share.

I understand that recently the last commercial lead smelter in the US shut down.

Wheel weights are changing over from lead to iron or zinc, and as I understand it, some states mandate "other than lead" wheel weights be used.

I wonder whether, in the future, it may become increasingly difficult for us to keep that part of our hobby alive, casting that is, due to lack of material?

As an aside, I also wonder about the average age of hobby casters. I have no information, but suspect that most folks who pour their own are getting up there in age. With fewer people to keep it alive, I wonder whether casting will go the way of the Dodo bird...
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Old August 10, 2015, 08:09 AM   #2
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I think you have brought up some good points.

I think in time there will be more states regulating lead bullet use, I hate to see that day come.

As for the average age of bullet casters, I'm a little long in the tooth but I really don't count as I just got into bullet casting.
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Old August 10, 2015, 08:10 AM   #3
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Like most things that the EPA has a hand in, no actual problem will be solved, but we will all pay more money.

I'm 58, and have been casting for over 40 years.

You're right, there aren't many young guys casting. It's hard to do while texting. jd
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Old August 10, 2015, 08:17 AM   #4
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Like most things that the EPA has a hand in, no actual problem will be solved, but we will all pay more money.
I am not widely indignant about everything, someone had to do something in the Northeast corner of Oklahoma.

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Old August 10, 2015, 09:26 AM   #5
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I got a little pile of lead and I shoot at my own backyard range. I'll just keep using it over and over til I'm too old to shoot it.
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Old August 10, 2015, 11:13 AM   #6
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I recently found a very old scuba diving weight belt in my garage, I bought it close to 45 years ago but hadn't used it in over 35 years. It's a pretty old style, has several raw lead weights threaded through a web belt, gotta be close to forty pounds of lead on it. I was going to give it away, but based on the comments in this thread, I think it's going to get stashed away again for possible future bullet use!
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Old August 10, 2015, 05:08 PM   #7
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I got a little pile of lead and I shoot at my own backyard range. I'll just keep using it over and over til I'm too old to shoot it.
I'm with you Beagle333, I mine lead from my own range, smelt it in to ingots to be used for more cast bullets.
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Old August 12, 2015, 09:23 AM   #8
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I wonder whether, in the future, it may become increasingly difficult for us to keep that part of our hobby alive, casting that is, due to lack of material?
The answer is yes, bullet casting will continue to decline because of the diminishing supply of lead. Compared to when I started, when lead was already waning from use (drain pipes, telephone company, roof flashing, city sewer pipes, printing alloys, etc.), the last common source, wheel weights, are/have disappeared. Furthermore, access to lead is being curtailed by the EPA ( You cannot just go into a junk yard and buy it...they say that they are forbidden from selling to public). Recycling range lead will work for some...for awhile, but it is pretty much over for the majority of would-be bullet casters.
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Old August 12, 2015, 09:42 AM   #9
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I have been collecting my stash over about 6 years. I sure would hate to start over. When I first started, lead was everywhere, but now it isn't easy pickin's. Were I just starting to collect lead, I believe I would take advantage of the Rotometals pallet deal and load up in one big haul if I could handle financing, or maybe split it with a buddy.

http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/...ingots1000.htm
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Old August 12, 2015, 03:18 PM   #10
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those ingots are to large for many melting pots.
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Old August 12, 2015, 05:47 PM   #11
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If you were a new caster, and you didn't have any lead, and you wanted to be sure you did have some lead for your future casting and shooting career/hobby...... you'd also have a smelting pot.

Even if you didn't buy from Rotometals (yes, it is an extreme option, but thankfully it is still an option), currently available lead is often still found/offered in sizes that won't fit in a standard pot. Very common example: large isotope cores. I just got two new ones on Saturday.

30 pounds each of leaden goodness!!

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Old August 12, 2015, 06:59 PM   #12
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Well, I'm young and looked into casting. I've never gotten into it yet because I don't shoot enough for it to be worth my time (there is a local guy that sells 1k .40 s&w for $60) but I think there are still lead sources. Two or three ballast's from sailboats would probably be enough to set me for life.
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Old August 13, 2015, 05:53 AM   #13
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Wait a minute... EPA says scrap yards can't sell lead to the public?

That's news to me!
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Old August 13, 2015, 07:43 AM   #14
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Wait a minute... EPA says scrap yards can't sell lead to the public?
I live in Michigan. I have been told by scrap metal yards, that "...they cannot sell scrap lead to privet persons...". I made the assumption that they meant EPA, but they may have been referring to Michigan law. I still get lead wheel weights from automobile salvage yards.
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Old August 13, 2015, 11:35 PM   #15
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I live in Michigan. I have been told by scrap metal yards, that "...they cannot sell scrap lead to privet persons...". I made the assumption that they meant EPA, but they may have been referring to Michigan law. I still get lead wheel weights from automobile salvage yards.
I've been told the same by MANY places.

But... It isn't a Federal law or EPA regulation. It usually comes down to one of two things:
1. They're full of crap and simply don't want to sell retail (then they have to deal with sales tax, etc.).
2. It's a local law/regulation.


When I lived in the Salt Lake City area, I had at least eight scrap dealers tell me that it was "illegal" to sell to the public. I knew better, so I kept trying.

Eventually, I found two places that were more than willing to deal with me. One of them even suggested that I call ahead so that they could arrange for someone to walk around with me and "shoot" everything I found interesting with an XRF analyzer (laser alloy analyzer). The same place offered to sort wheel weights and make sure I was getting ONLY lead, if I so desired.


Now, I live elsewhere, but the scrap dealers here have always given me the "come on down and take a look" when I have called about lead alloys.
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Old August 13, 2015, 11:37 PM   #16
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Oh, and one note, while we're on the subject....


Lead is down, and will likely continue to creep downward for at least 2-3 months (following iron, steel, aluminum, and brass). If you want to get some lead from a scrap dealer, now is the time....
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Old August 14, 2015, 04:21 AM   #17
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About 3 years ago, my local scrapyards went "NO SALES TO THE PUBLIC" and now won't even let me go past the scales. No cruising the various piles of goodies for deals anymore. I'm not sure if it is all tied up by recycler's contracts, local regs, or just the liability if somebody tripped over a piece of something or discovered a wasp nest in an old refrigerator. But it sure is a shame....... all those barrels of WW, and dumpsters heaped with lead pipe and roof flashing just sitting on the other side of the fence staring back at me.
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Old August 14, 2015, 10:51 PM   #18
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Chinese are still importing as much scrap metal as they can from salvage yards across this Country and the World which includes lead and its alloys. If there is a shortage in metal markets. It will be due to the Chinese and their veracious appetite for every ones natural and scrap metal resources. I wouldn't at this time advise y'll to start buying casting metals so's to stock up. But_ I believe there will be a time in the not to distant future those who didn't will wish they had. As for me and my squirreled away amount of this that & the other leads. "I'm in good shape."
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Old August 15, 2015, 01:57 AM   #19
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Chinese are still importing as much scrap metal as they can from salvage yards across this Country and the World which includes lead and its alloys. If there is a shortage in metal markets. It will be due to the Chinese and their veracious appetite for every ones natural and scrap metal resources.
China's domestic manufacturing and recycling was brought up to speed several years ago and allowed them to meet most of their internal demand. Now, since about March 2015, China is importing nearly nothing, when it comes to scrap metal.

They have run out of infrastructure to build, and (their) domestic production is meeting demand for nearly the entire export market.

Thus.... the scrap market here has crashed. Just three weeks ago, steel dropped 33%, aluminum dropped 40%, brass dropped 28%, iron dropped 42%, and lead dropped 20%. ...And that wasn't the first drop this year. Over the last two years, some metals have fallen more than 80%.

The market is down now.

The future is so "bright" that two of the scrap yards near me are closing up shop. They can't hold out for 2-3 years (or more) until the market comes back up. So they're liquidating what they have, and selling the land.
They'll probably be trailer parks by this time next year....
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Old August 15, 2015, 11:09 AM   #20
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Well Mr. Franken Mauser I stand corrected sir. I knew the steel market was down due to the recent iron ore mining lay offs here in northern MN. But I didn't know that all medal market prices were affected. Including lead. Thanks for the correction & update. S/SMcG
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Old August 25, 2015, 11:14 AM   #21
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those ingots are to large for many melting pots.
I have used an axe, I have used saws, I have never used a hot wire, I have a carbon torch, that can be scary if there is moisture and or air pockets.

When using a saw always keep two teeth engages at all times and it does not hurt to have a wide set on the teeth. Lead is sold with large clevis/bent bars for lifting for those that are serious lead smelters.

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Old August 25, 2015, 05:37 PM   #22
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? ^^^
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Old September 11, 2015, 09:24 PM   #23
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I believe that the smelter actually shut down a few years ago. It will pose some problems. Lead, being mostly used for batteries and recycled, is always going to be run through the recycling system over and again. It's not just used and put out of the market like steel or aluminum. I suspect that the greatest use of lead that "wastes" it is soldering, maybe shooting. Commercial ranges recycle, but a lot of it is just lost forever into the ground.

At this point, any new lead products that we require for use in american manufacturing we are importing, and I read that we are probably going to import mainly from china.

If a person even has the slightest inclination to cast bullets, then lead should be harvested at ranges whenever possible. It's the one best source for it right now, unless one has a personal relationship with his independent mechanic for tire weights.
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Old September 12, 2015, 08:48 AM   #24
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I have a lot of WWs but have to make sure what is what. The last WWs were gratis and had many fe and zn WWs. As far as the aging casters, I'm a geezer and in my 20s I knew a boat load of fellow casters, now I know one. Retail firerm stores back in the day use to carry molds and furnaces, no longer.
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Old September 12, 2015, 12:00 PM   #25
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maybe you've already heard, but in the past I've read that zinc wheel weights in a batch will ruin the lead. I also read that at lower temps, the zink will still melt, but it will not alloy, and will float so it can be skimmed. dunno.
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