hunting dogs

[dogrunner]

Damn, Buck, sorta sounds like you want to start an argument....I don't, and any commentary I've made relative to the ethical perspective I have is from the heart.....but that said, yeah, I'd break your law and take my chances if faced with the choice of letting an animal remain in agony as opposed to abiding by such a regulation as you describe.........frankly, I'd take my chances in a jury trial under those circumstances as well.

Far as the use of buckshot goes, you and I agree.....good wounder that leaves no blood trail. Once dropped a really heavy racked buck....twice....with 00.....even the best dog we had could do no good as the area was so heavy with deer sign. I believe that nearly all that hunt have had the experience of a bad shot....I once spent nearly a full day trying to drop a caribou on which I'd broken the front leg and finally had to give it up well after dark with a heavy storm brewing. Range estimation can be a real problem in the barren grounds and I did the best I could by myself.

Break Florida law.....not hardly, spent well over three decades enforcing it, but still, as I said given no choice I'd do the decent thing....regardless of that law....like the man said, your mileage might vary, mine doesn't.

Besides, if I really just wanted to upset the GFC types I'd stick that 16 of mine in the truck and just dump a couple of mags.......draws 'em like flie!

[buck460XVR]

Originally posted bydogrunner: Damn, Buck, sorta sounds like you want to start an argument....I don't, and any commentary I've made relative to the ethical perspective I have is from the heart.....but that said, yeah, I'd break your law and take my chances if faced with the choice of letting an animal remain in agony as opposed to abiding by such a regulation as you describe.........frankly, I'd take my chances in a jury trial under those circumstances as well.

No desire to be argumentative. Just I have a real big problem with folks that publicly condone breaking wildlife regulations. You are free to feel otherwise. I help teach hunter safety to young kids and adults. One night of each class session is spent with the local game Warden reviewing common game laws and taking questions. The two items I mentioned are always subject to debate. It comes down to enforcement. If you have laws against the use of dogs to aid in the hunting of deer and laws against shooting after legal hours, you cannot make exceptions. Same goes for bag limits and season dates. The minute you start to make exceptions and allow grey areas, poachers will try and use it as an excuse or to their advantage. Another law that is often debated is putting down an injured animal that has been hit by a car or found hurt. While the emotional thing is to put them down as quickly as possible, without permission from a warden or other LEO, it is no different than shooting that animal without a license or out of season. Not a big deal today with cell phones being so popular, years ago, not so much.

BTW.....the fine for shooting a deer illegally here in Wisconsin either by the use of dogs or after hours is $1800, plus the loss of the weapon and loss of hunting and fishing privileges. If that illegal deer is placed in your car or truck, odds are you will lose that too. Sorry, I'm a long time hunter and sportsman, still, I'm gonna take the dog back to the truck, wait till morning or use my knife.

[dogrunner]

Buck, would not the use of ANY weapon engender the same situation relative to taking game by the use of that dog?

Y'know, that comment on 'the law is the law' kinda bothers me tho. It's a rationale that's been used in some circumstances are truly questionable. There IS such a thing as the law as written v/ the spirit of that law. I never viewed my position as a LEO as an unthinking minion of the state....I tried to exercise descretion even if the action I took was not quite in line with 'as written'......I could not tell you the number of times that I called for a cab with two drivers for a borderline DUI...........technically could've made a charge........but the call was so close I chose to exercise the prerogative I believe was proper....yeah, some folks disagree but when one becomes an automation in that kinda job then the risk of really bad consequences rears it's head........you know, I was 'only following orders'.

Do as you would, I sure will!

[2damnold4this]

Sorry, I'm a long time hunter and sportsman, still, I'm gonna take the dog back to the truck, wait till morning or use my knife.

Is it legal to kill deer in Wisconsin with knife at night while using dogs?

[buck460XVR]

Why is it folks are tryin' to kill the messenger? I'm not the one that wrote the rules, nor am I the one enforcing the rules, nor did I say I always agree with the rules, I was only responding to a question about tracking deer with dogs and the law as how it has been explained to me and interpreted by local wardens. I was also only saying that I always tried to abide by those laws as I understood them. That said.......

Originally posted by 2damnold4this:

Is it legal to kill deer in Wisconsin with knife at night while using dogs?

Better yet......is it legal to kill deer in Wisconsin with a knife during daylight without dogs?

Again, as been explained to me. It comes down to enforcement. Cutting an animals throat is an accepted way of making them bleed out and is a common way of removing the windpipe in the field during field dressing. Running up and slitting a healthy wild deer's throat is not a common practice among violators. Shooting at night with the aid of a light(after hours blood trailing generally means you need a light) or using a dog to aid in the hunt is a common practice by violators. Hard for a warden to say you ran the deer down in the dark and killed them with your knife, but he would question when he heard gun shots after dark or when a dog was along as to whether it was a legal or illegal kill. This is just common sense guys. If the warden was along at night he would probably put the deer down or tell you to, but by yourself in the woods, they would have to go by the book. It also comes down to if you cannot get close enough to the animal to bleed it out, because they are
not wounded severely enough, one could say the original wound was not mortal and only superficial. What if you miss with the first coup de gras and need a second shot. Warden hears two shots in the dark and finds two holes in the animal. Makes it easier in the long run just to not allow you to shoot. Will a few animals suffer needlessly? Sure, but not near as many as would be poached if shooting after hours and with the aid of dogs was not enforced. Dogrunner.....I'm sure there are many cases of where the wardens do use discretion in cases like this, but that does not mean the law is not generally enforced. Thus.... I suggest folks follow the law. One of those catch 22s. Just like any decision one makes as to break the law or not. While I do not enjoy watching any animal suffer, I am not foolish enough to risk $1800, my gun, my vehicle and my hunting and fishing rights on an animal I cannot get close enough to without having to shoot it again. Others are free to do as they seem fit. BUT...IMHO, it still is not proper to suggest publicly that other folks break the law. It is not the impression I want to portray to others, as a hunter.

[2damnold4this]

I took a look at the Wisconsin deer regulations and I didn't see anything about dispatching wounded animals with a knife. I also didn't see anything about a knife being a legal hunting weapon. While it may be an accepted way of making a wounded animal bleed out, I'm not sure it's any more legal than shooting another arrow or bullet at night.


Some states have explicit regulations on dispatching wounded game but others do not. I suspect that most game wardens are able to tell the difference between a deer being dispatched and a deer being illegally hunted at night and would cut a person dealing with a wounded critter some slack. If the hunter had a cell phone, it would probably be a good idea to call and get permission to dispatch a wounded deer if they had to shoot it at night. I doubt that many wardens would have a zero tolerance policy but some might.

[buck460XVR]

Originally posted by 2damnold4this;

I took a look at the Wisconsin deer regulations and I didn't see anything about dispatching wounded animals with a knife. I also didn't see anything about a knife being a legal hunting weapon. While it may be an accepted way of making a wounded animal bleed out, I'm not sure it's any more legal than shooting another arrow or bullet at night.


Some states have explicit regulations on dispatching wounded game but others do not. I suspect that most game wardens are able to tell the difference between a deer being dispatched and a deer being illegally hunted at night and would cut a person dealing with a wounded critter some slack. If the hunter had a cell phone, it would probably be a good idea to call and get permission to dispatch a wounded deer if they had to shoot it at night. I doubt that many wardens would have a zero tolerance policy but some might.

I have been told, by several wardens, that dispatching an animal shot and wounded legally, that you have a valid tag for, with a knife, is legal. If you do not want to believe me, so be it. I ain't living half a country away making guesses at another state's regulations. You want to assume that a warden will give you a break when you ignore regulations.....by all means go for it. Again as I said before if you have permission from a warden to shoot at night you are fine, odds are that permission will not be given unless he is there. As for trailing at night, I used to hunt public land primarily with my bow. If I shot a deer that needed to lay or had to be trailed after hours, I always went home(before cell phones) and called the local warden so he would know what was going on if folks called in about lights in the woods at night or a truck parked late on a fire lane. They always said the same thing, "fine, just make sure you don't take your bow with you". There were times when I got back to the truck, the warden was there waiting.

[Art Eatman]

Re-read Post #1.