Make 686 hammer firing pin

[Jeryray]

Can the new style S&W 686 be converted to the older style hammer with firing pin?

Why I want to do this is because when I am set for 8lb DA my reloads don't always fire. And sometimes factory loads don't either.

I have too much invested in CCI primers to switch primers MFR

At 9lbs DA, my loads usually fire.

My old model 14-3 set at 8lbs fires any .38 I tried.
It has a firing pin in the hammer.

[Don P]

Can the new style S&W 686 be converted to the older style hammer with firing pin

No the frame is different.

I have too much invested in CCI primers to switch primers MFR

You need to use Federal primers. That is why you always make up test loads before going balls to the wall with loading rounds or buying components.
Check the tension screw for the mainspring on the 686. I may have loosened up

[Jeryray]

OK on the Federal primers. BUT no stock anywhere..

[MrBorland]

You can't convert. Besides, the frame-mounted FP design isn't your issue. Matter of fact, it's my opinion that the frame-mounted design is a wee bit more reliable than the hammer-mounted design, all else being equal.


As I mentioned earlier, IME, 8lbs DA is about the limit of reliability with on an otherwise stock S&W. This assumes everything's in spec inside the gun. Any internal friction will cut into that reliability. Since 9lbs seems to work ok, it's possible (likely?) your issue is that you've got a source of internal friction robbing the hammer of some power. A decent action job by a competent 'smith ought to fix things.

[Jeryray]

Can't find federal primers anywhere.

I can get Remington, would these be more reliable than CCI in the 686?

[Scorch]

Your problem is not your primers, nor is it the location of your firing pin, nor anything else about the revolver, other than you tampered with something that you don't understand and now it doesn't work the way it is supposed to. If you want your S&W 686 to function reliably, you will have to increase the power of the mainspring. Nothing else will prove reliable. Nothing.

An 8 lbs double action trigger pull sounds so cool until you figure out that it just doesn't work.

[Jeryray]

OK Scorch, understood what you said.

did you see this from the earlier post "At 9lbs DA, my loads usually fire.

My old model 14-3 set at 8lbs fires any .38 I tried.
It has a firing pin in the hammer. "

[Jim Watson]

How did you arrive at those trigger pulls?
Strain screw?
Weak spring kit?
Action job?

There are several things going on here.
1. The guns are individuals, what you get with one is not certain for the next.
2. The larger guns take a heavier trigger pull to get the hammer fall for ignition. K frames seem about the optimum, with good leverage trigger to hammer.
3. If all you have done is frickle with spring tension or spring selection, your M14 is probably smoother and with better camming angles than your 686. A real action job reduces friction and refines angles to get the most out of reduced springs.

[BillM]

Install an extra long firing pin from Cylinder and Slide or Power Custom.
Make sure your primers are well seated. Good hard push, below flush.
You are currently using CCI? Probably the hardest of the bunch. Remington would be
better, Winchester better yet--
Adjust mainspring as needed until you get 100% ignition.
Nest time you see Federals in stock, buy a pile. How many you can get on one hazmat fee seems to vary---50,000 is a nice round number.

[arquebus357]

Are you loosening the main spring tension screw and measuring the result with a trigger pull gauge ??

[Jeryray]

So let me explain a bit about the new 686. I am NYC resident. I purchased this gun from a range and can fire it there until I have purchase order. That will be in 3-5 months.

So any work I want to perform must be at the range on point. Not Ideal at all, but that is what I must do. I installed a Wilson combat trigger release spring 13lb and the reduced mainspring. I did my trigger pull measurement with a lyman gauge.
With the 686 I had 3lb SA and 8lb DA. But it was not always reliable, more so with my re-loads. I then took the hammer, trigger, release out polished them and the inside of the frame where any part can bind. It did not help my problem much. So I installed a copper shim between the spring and the screw head. I bent it around the spring so it will not go anywhere, The screw is all the way in.
I measure 4lb SA and 9lb DA.

That's where it is for now. Most all the rounds fire now. I only have 500 rounds through it. So I will break it in some more before I do much more. I do have another main spring coming from Miculek.

[MrBorland]

Do you intend to shoot this gun in DA, SA or a mixture? You mentioned you'll use this gun in a match - what kind of match? Bullseye (i.e. SA shooting) or IDPA/USPSA (i.e. DA shooting)?

[Jim Watson]

Most all the rounds fire now

That is not good enough for competition unless by "most" you mean 9999/10,000.
The dearth of Federal primers makes the usual match revolver solution difficult.
Hope the Miculek spring works for you. But it specifies Federal primers.

[Jeryray]

Oh Boy, no federal primers anywhere.

I shoot a 480 match, 6 rounds reload 30 seconds. Been using SA, buy need to use DA.

[BillM]

Oh Boy, no federal primers anywhere.

Well---maybe: https://store.thirdgenerationshootin...category/9069/

[Jeryray]

OK will try that URL, Thanks

[MrBorland]

As mentioned, 8lbs DA is about the limit of reliability with on an otherwise stock S&W. There's some float in that number, and given that CCI primers are relatively hard, I'm not surprised that your gun is one that's having trouble with CCIs at 8lbs. At this point, I think your options are...

1. Set it to 9 lbs. After a bunch of dry fire (which you should be doing anyway), that 9lbs won't likely be much of a handicap relative to an 8lb pull.

2. Have a pro who knows who to tune competition S&Ws do a complete action job on it. Apex Tactical has been the go-to tuner for many competitive wheelgunners, though they're were in such demand, they had a backlog. There are others, though.

3. Beg, borrow or steal softer primers.

4. Install an extended firing pin. The Apex pin comes with a lighter FP return spring. This would be the next thing I'd try if you don't want to go down #s 1-3 just yet.

5. Convert to DAO by installing a bobbed hammer. All else being equal, a lighter hammer travels faster and imparts a more powerful primer strike, so converting to DAO enhances reliability a bit. The lighter/faster hammer also has less muzzle-jarring momentum, so you get a bit of an accuracy boost. You can bob the hammer that's on the gun, buy & bob a replacement, or buy a hammer from Apex. Apex makes a great hammer, but I'd recommend buying & bobbing the replacement assembly from Midway - it's cheaper, you can bob it as aggressively as you like (make sure your gun is still conforms to any equipment rules set by your sanctioning body, though), and, as a MIM assembly, it's likely a drop-in assembly (unlike the Apex, which will likely require some fitting of the sear).

I can't say for certain, but my hunch is that unless there's something out of alignment inside the gun, the combination of a bobbed hammer (get rid of as much mass as possible and/or allowed) and an Apex pin/spring would light off CCI primers with an 8lb pull.

[pete2]

Some years ago I had to detune my 625 so it would fire other than Federal primers. Could not get Fed. On another note, I now have Federals but just in case, I recently tried CCI, Win. and Remington again. I thought Rem would be softer than CCI. Wrong.... Of the first 100 rounds with CCI, I had one fail to fire. I cleaned the primer pockets on the 2nd 100 with CCI and all 100 fired. Several failures with Remington, Winchesters not even close to working. These results were this spring, all fired double action. I bought 3000 winchester LP, they were so hard to seat that I will not buy any more. In the past I have used a lot of them, they've changed something. No more for me. Strangely, 25 years ago I quit using CCI large and small primers for the same reason. The new Win. small pistol primers seated just fine in .38 and 9MM.

[Jeryray]

I now have a quantity of federal primers.
Will go to the range next week and see if they are reliable at 8-9lbs DA.

Thanks

[Don P]

Will go to the range next week and see if they are reliable at 8-9lbs DA.

My 625 has a double action pull of 7 lbs. and it goes bang every time.

[Jeryray]

OK, the Federal primers do work all the time (so far) what seems to work is 3.6 Bullseye and 125g Berrys plated SWC. Close to the factory rounds. I may try the 8lb DA, by removing the shim. Work in progress.