Street survival tactics

WildBill45 · June 10, 2013, 01:04 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWCYbcqCeyI

A few points that may shed some light on these particular issues and scenarios that are based on real experiences over 30 years of street experience. It consists of fluid types of scenarios that happen on the streets, and options to consider that are creative and use angles, thinking, and being good with your footwork. Insight that may enlighten, or good tips to consider in how you train...

**Frank Ettin** · June 10, 2013, 01:50 PM

[1] The link says that the video is private.

[2] You might tell us something more about the subject and what we'd see on the video (if it can be made accessible) so folks can better decide if they want to spend the time.

WildBill45 · June 10, 2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

[1] The link says that the video is private.

You are correct, but it now changed to PUBLIC...

The original description is concise, but to add more, it consists of fluid types of scenarios that happen on the streets, and options to consider that are creative and use angles, thinking, and being good with your footwork. Insight that may enlighten, or good tips to consider in how you train...

Have fun shooting...

kraigwy · June 11, 2013, 09:56 AM

Why does everyone preach Martial Arts????

It's great of you're young or in good shape, or a cop, But???

Thank about it, bandits choose what appears to be the weakest target. They aren't total idiots.

If giving a choice they are going to choose the elderly, the young mother, etc. not the young spry looking individual.

I guess you should tailor your class to your students, and you have young, in shape individuals, the throw in the MA's.

Most of my students don't fit that category, most are young mothers, middle age to elderly.

If the victim is a young mother towing a toddler, she isn't going to loose the child and drop into some sort of MA stance. She's going to pull the child behind her for cover and use a revolver/pistol to ward off the attacker, more then likely with one hand (she is still holding the child behind her body).

I digress.

My other concern with the video is the distance involved. Seems like the farther you are from the bandit, the harder to justify self defense.

Think about it, if you are trying to prove you were in danger, wouldn't it be easier if you left powder burns on the bandit?

The video seems to deal more with active shooters then the more common one on one strong arm or car jacking.

Active shooting has been covered quite a bit on these forums, basically, leave if you can, hunker down if you can't, be prepared to shoot if there is no other choice OR to leave your gun in your pocket with empty hands displayed if the cops show up. When you're hunkered down, you don't know who is going to be popping around the corner.

I like to tell people to read every incident of robbery, car jacking, purse snatching, etc. they can to see what is happening in the real world and adjust your training accordingly.

Make friends with local cops so they can tell you the type crimes found in your area and adjust your training accordingly.

Just some thoughts.

psyfly · June 11, 2013, 11:27 AM

^^Agreed.

After my bypass surgery I got some (other old guy) friends together and we took about 40 hours of self-defense training (mostly Krav Maga based) and the last line of most training scenarios was "get away".

If you're carrying a firearm (and I usually am) then you try hard to make sure the BG doesn't get close enough to have to use the hand-to-hand stuff.

I'm glad I took the training, it wasn't wasted time in any respect and I actually feel that I'm capable of putting some serious hurt on most BGs who mistake me for an easy target.

But, it also wasn't any substitute for proper firearms training/use.

W.

deepcreek · June 11, 2013, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Thank about it, bandits choose what appears to be the weakest target. They aren't total idiots.

If giving a choice they are going to choose the elderly, the young mother, etc. not the young spry looking individual.

A pretty common statistic is that more then 50% of attacks have mutable attackers and/or weapons involved. I agree that attackers look for weaker prey but 4 guys with weapons will usually not have a problem beating down one young guy not matter how fit he is.

I think many healthy men get targeted because they are out at peak times for attacks fri-sat night you get small gangs of roving thugs who have more people to hunt on weekend nights. You also get alcohol mixed in with dog pack mentality.

Quote:

Most of my students don't fit that category, most are young mothers, middle age to elderly.

If the victim is a young mother towing a toddler, she isn't going to loose the child and drop into some sort of MA stance. She's going to pull the child behind her for cover and use a revolver/pistol to ward off the attacker, more then likely with one hand (she is still holding the child behind her body).

I think one major danger women face statistically in attacks is rape. Most people don't always have a gun for one reason or another. With out a gun I think things like choke escapes, eye gouges, groin shots, can be very valuable and effective in rape attacks. Shock, damage and escape.

WildBill45 · June 11, 2013, 04:00 PM

Quote:

I think one major danger women face statistically in attacks is rape. Most people don't always have a gun for one reason or another. With out a gun I think things like choke escapes, eye gouges, groin shots, can be very valuable and effective in rape attacks. Shock, damage and escape.

This is very true, and it also provides more time to get attention, possibly help or at least an outsider's call to the police...

You don't have to be young and in shape to learn martial arts. You will not do as well if not, but you can learn things that will improve your current status, even if it is only escape moves or damaging strikes that may deter further attack. This is to supplement your CCW carry, and at times may be needed to defend your gun so it is not taken away and used on you. It never hurts to learn something new, and everyone that breathes and bleeds can learn something new from someone else!

Brit · June 11, 2013, 09:39 PM

The main point in carrying a handgun, in MHO, you need to be able to survive a violent encounter, in situations that historically have happened.

As in multiple threats, home invasions are getting to be more and more likely, for instance, in driving in to your driveway, coming in from work, or supper, with your significant other.

Sudden confrontation, 4 young men, one with a knife, his companions, no apparent weapons, but sudden appearance.

You pull out your trusty 6 shot, or 5 shot revolver? Not me. Glock 19 with TruGlo night sights! 16 rounds of 9mm ammunition ready, now.

This has happened, and could happen again, to any one of us.

A pistol is not an instant fight stopper most of the time, one or two shots?
How about 4 or 5? At one adversary, and a whole bunch more to go.

Oh, and carry a spare magazine, and a Surefire light.

SgtLumpy · June 11, 2013, 09:54 PM

Quote:

The main point in carrying a handgun, in MHO, you need to be able to survive a violent encounter...

I believe that is "a" point. But the main point, IMO, is to learn to AVOID. You will avoid a confrontation a thousand times more than you'll ever need those night sights and light sabre.

Sgt Lumpy

SIGSHR · June 12, 2013, 12:10 AM

I think some basic martial arts training-learning blocks, counters, footwork-can help, perhaps enough so you realize you really do have to practice them to gain any proficiency. Also learning to use "other" weapons-a cane, an umbrella, the ballpoint pen in your pocket, etc.
Regarding "instant" fight stoppers, we need to define what we mean more carefully. I like to draw an analogy from my Army service. In fighting tanks, you can achieve one of three results-a total kill in which the tank and its crew are destroyed immediately, a firepower kill which wrecks its fighting capacity, or a mobility kill. The first is the most desirable but the next two aren't too far behind.

Buzzcook · June 12, 2013, 12:28 AM

Avoid alcohol and places that serve it recreationally.
That will greatly reduce your exposure to violence.

Glenn Dee · June 12, 2013, 09:15 AM

My old ears had a hard time understanding some of what he said....

At one point he suggested that if the perp runs, the defender trip him then shoot... Probably a bad idea... Shoot the perp running away?... not such a good idea.

Maybe I should make a vidio....lol heck everyone else does.

WildBill45 · June 12, 2013, 12:21 PM

Quote:

At one point he suggested that if the perp runs, the defender trip him then shoot... Probably a bad idea... Shoot the perp running away?... not such a good idea.

If you are saying that is me in the video saying that ... that is absolutely false!!!
... Period!

If you can't hear it do not quote mis-information please. This is stuff that can get on the internet and makes everyone look bad...

Seriously ... Listen or have someone listen for you ...

dayman · June 12, 2013, 12:43 PM

I don't think a forum comment on a youtube video is going to be taken seriously enough to make anyone look too bad. Caps-lock is unnecessary.

Good video though. As always, definitely worth watching.

SgtLumpy · June 12, 2013, 02:44 PM

I too, heard the guy at least twice, describing shooting someone who was running.

I skipped around a little bit through the video but I didn't see a thing about Martial Arts. Not really sure if I saw any "street survival" tactics. Just a guy talking about something(?) and once in a while double tapping a target.

If you were looking for a critique...

Difficult to understand the rambling and muffled speech. Camera constantly at an angle and moving needlessly. Didn't seem like any particular training point to the whole thing. Background music seemed totally unnecessary and distracting.

Sgt Lumpy

johnelmore · June 12, 2013, 03:10 PM

This is not a professional video and who knows who this guy might be. He is just some guy in a tshirt with some old pistols. The OP needs to revisit this video.

Glenn Dee · June 12, 2013, 04:53 PM

Wild Bill?????

Sorry if I offend you man... was not my intention. I dont know who the fellow is in the vidio. I'm sorry but I couldnt understand much of the verbiage... I did hear something about tripping the perp then shooting him. I'm sure they guy in the vid has a bunch of experience... It's great that he wants to share it...

WildBill45 · June 12, 2013, 08:08 PM

I was wearing the camera on my head so you see what I see... I said if the bad guy turned and ran then you can't shoot, and then you can escape or something close to that ... no script involved

The point of this style is seeing through the eyes of the person doing the tactics, not watching it like a movie from the outside.

I always advise it is best to not get into a fight of any sort...

Those who do not get it, don't get it. It is for those who do get it... Everyone sees everything differently.

The martial arts is on the footwork and movements and fluid motion and shooting as if as one. You have to be good at what you do to make it seem easy ... but is not as easy as it seems to move about as such.

ThatBeardedGuy · June 12, 2013, 08:30 PM

Here I was thinking footwork wasn't complicated in shooting.

MarkDozier · June 13, 2013, 01:21 AM

You would be much better serve by using the combat glide for your footwork in a dynamic setting.

WildBill45 · June 13, 2013, 12:30 PM

Quote:

You would be much better serve by using the combat glide for your footwork in a dynamic setting.

Better served by the lesser experienced, as most boxed in and published techniques, in shooting and martial arts. You may notice that the best is usually doing their own thing, which does not always translate to easy learning, hence not used in the classrooms!

Did Musashi follow others as a Samurai, NO, he developed his own, real world style. I have his book, The Book of Five Rings, he mixed his martial arts with being a master of the sword. The gun and martial arts also translates and facilitates advanced techniques that non-martial artists cannot do.

You can shoot well without being a master of martial arts, but, and there always is a but in life, Martial Arts will make you better!

WildBill45 · June 13, 2013, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Here I was thinking footwork wasn't complicated in shooting.

It is Not Complicated if you are shooting. I and some others are talking about combat, street survival, which is so much more than just shooting! A lot of cops who are good shooters get killed by their own gun, as just shooting doesn't cut it on the streets. Every fight on the street is a fight with a gun involved, because the cop, or CCW person has one. If you can't keep it, you feed the thug a gun even if has none, thus, this is where the other skills come in, to Survive. Not every bad guy yells from afar his intentions to attack, thus the real need to survive to have time to bring your gun to bear in the fight.

SgtLumpy · June 13, 2013, 01:02 PM

I suggest that the guy in the video, still not sure if it's the OP or someone else, might very well be a great guy, great shooter, great martial artist, great street smarts person. Just not a great video producer. No problem. We're not video producers, we're shooters. But I, and apparently some others, had a very hard time distilling any kind of message, training, suggestions from the video.

Again, that's not a problem. But it simply means it's another anonymous guy on YouTube saying something that most people won't "get" because the presentation is disorganized.

Stay relaxed. It's hot out.

Sgt Lumpy

Erno86 · June 13, 2013, 01:46 PM

I do like the video's and DVD's from Paladin Press...on the art of knife fighting, firearms and survival tactics.

Brit · June 14, 2013, 10:14 AM

The main point of heading out, with your partner, into the streets of your City/Town, in my estimation, because this is basically a gun forum.

Have enough gun, and skill with same, if it becomes a gun play scenario.

Back in Sept. 2004, in Dayton Ohio, we, my wife and I, stepped into an elevator, big Hotel.

As the doors closed, young man, in suit, with martini in right hand.

My very attractive, well dressed Wife, pressed #2, floor to walkway to parking garage.

Our new companion, ignored me, told the Lovely Indian Lady, "I need a hug" and lifted his left foot, in preparation to step forward, which I stopped by coming under his armpit, and driving him into the rear of the small elevator, and the wooden board built to stop damage, he froze.

I was carrying a pistol, never thought of the gun.

June 10, 2013, 01:04 PM	#1
WildBill45 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2011 Location: Western PA. Posts: 1,630	Street survival tactics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWCYbcqCeyI A few points that may shed some light on these particular issues and scenarios that are based on real experiences over 30 years of street experience. It consists of fluid types of scenarios that happen on the streets, and options to consider that are creative and use angles, thinking, and being good with your footwork. Insight that may enlighten, or good tips to consider in how you train... __________________ ......................................................... "If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas" Last edited by WildBill45; June 10, 2013 at 01:59 PM.

June 11, 2013, 09:56 AM	#4
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Why does everyone preach Martial Arts???? It's great of you're young or in good shape, or a cop, But??? Thank about it, bandits choose what appears to be the weakest target. They aren't total idiots. If giving a choice they are going to choose the elderly, the young mother, etc. not the young spry looking individual. I guess you should tailor your class to your students, and you have young, in shape individuals, the throw in the MA's. Most of my students don't fit that category, most are young mothers, middle age to elderly. If the victim is a young mother towing a toddler, she isn't going to loose the child and drop into some sort of MA stance. She's going to pull the child behind her for cover and use a revolver/pistol to ward off the attacker, more then likely with one hand (she is still holding the child behind her body). I digress. My other concern with the video is the distance involved. Seems like the farther you are from the bandit, the harder to justify self defense. Think about it, if you are trying to prove you were in danger, wouldn't it be easier if you left powder burns on the bandit? The video seems to deal more with active shooters then the more common one on one strong arm or car jacking. Active shooting has been covered quite a bit on these forums, basically, leave if you can, hunker down if you can't, be prepared to shoot if there is no other choice OR to leave your gun in your pocket with empty hands displayed if the cops show up. When you're hunkered down, you don't know who is going to be popping around the corner. I like to tell people to read every incident of robbery, car jacking, purse snatching, etc. they can to see what is happening in the real world and adjust your training accordingly. Make friends with local cops so they can tell you the type crimes found in your area and adjust your training accordingly. Just some thoughts. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

June 11, 2013, 11:27 AM	#5
psyfly Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 932	^^Agreed. After my bypass surgery I got some (other old guy) friends together and we took about 40 hours of self-defense training (mostly Krav Maga based) and the last line of most training scenarios was "get away". If you're carrying a firearm (and I usually am) then you try hard to make sure the BG doesn't get close enough to have to use the hand-to-hand stuff. I'm glad I took the training, it wasn't wasted time in any respect and I actually feel that I'm capable of putting some serious hurt on most BGs who mistake me for an easy target. But, it also wasn't any substitute for proper firearms training/use. W. __________________ Show me the data

June 12, 2013, 12:43 PM	#14
dayman Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Location: The Woods Posts: 1,197	I don't think a forum comment on a youtube video is going to be taken seriously enough to make anyone look too bad. Caps-lock is unnecessary. Good video though. As always, definitely worth watching. __________________ si vis pacem para bellum

June 12, 2013, 08:08 PM	#18
WildBill45 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2011 Location: Western PA. Posts: 1,630	I was wearing the camera on my head so you see what I see... I said if the bad guy turned and ran then you can't shoot, and then you can escape or something close to that ... no script involved The point of this style is seeing through the eyes of the person doing the tactics, not watching it like a movie from the outside. I always advise it is best to not get into a fight of any sort... Those who do not get it, don't get it. It is for those who do get it... Everyone sees everything differently. The martial arts is on the footwork and movements and fluid motion and shooting as if as one. You have to be good at what you do to make it seem easy ... but is not as easy as it seems to move about as such. __________________ ......................................................... "If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"

June 10, 2013, 01:50 PM	#2
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	[1] The link says that the video is private. [2] You might tell us something more about the subject and what we'd see on the video (if it can be made accessible) so folks can better decide if they want to spend the time. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

June 11, 2013, 09:39 PM	#8
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	The main point in carrying a handgun, in MHO, you need to be able to survive a violent encounter, in situations that historically have happened. As in multiple threats, home invasions are getting to be more and more likely, for instance, in driving in to your driveway, coming in from work, or supper, with your significant other. Sudden confrontation, 4 young men, one with a knife, his companions, no apparent weapons, but sudden appearance. You pull out your trusty 6 shot, or 5 shot revolver? Not me. Glock 19 with TruGlo night sights! 16 rounds of 9mm ammunition ready, now. This has happened, and could happen again, to any one of us. A pistol is not an instant fight stopper most of the time, one or two shots? How about 4 or 5? At one adversary, and a whole bunch more to go. Oh, and carry a spare magazine, and a Surefire light.

June 12, 2013, 12:10 AM	#10
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	I think some basic martial arts training-learning blocks, counters, footwork-can help, perhaps enough so you realize you really do have to practice them to gain any proficiency. Also learning to use "other" weapons-a cane, an umbrella, the ballpoint pen in your pocket, etc. Regarding "instant" fight stoppers, we need to define what we mean more carefully. I like to draw an analogy from my Army service. In fighting tanks, you can achieve one of three results-a total kill in which the tank and its crew are destroyed immediately, a firepower kill which wrecks its fighting capacity, or a mobility kill. The first is the most desirable but the next two aren't too far behind.

June 12, 2013, 12:28 AM	#11
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	Avoid alcohol and places that serve it recreationally. That will greatly reduce your exposure to violence.

June 12, 2013, 09:15 AM	#12
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	My old ears had a hard time understanding some of what he said.... At one point he suggested that if the perp runs, the defender trip him then shoot... Probably a bad idea... Shoot the perp running away?... not such a good idea. Maybe I should make a vidio....lol heck everyone else does.

June 12, 2013, 02:44 PM	#15
SgtLumpy Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2013 Posts: 779	I too, heard the guy at least twice, describing shooting someone who was running. I skipped around a little bit through the video but I didn't see a thing about Martial Arts. Not really sure if I saw any "street survival" tactics. Just a guy talking about something(?) and once in a while double tapping a target. If you were looking for a critique... Difficult to understand the rambling and muffled speech. Camera constantly at an angle and moving needlessly. Didn't seem like any particular training point to the whole thing. Background music seemed totally unnecessary and distracting. Sgt Lumpy

June 12, 2013, 03:10 PM	#16
johnelmore Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2013 Posts: 456	This is not a professional video and who knows who this guy might be. He is just some guy in a tshirt with some old pistols. The OP needs to revisit this video.

June 12, 2013, 04:53 PM	#17
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	Wild Bill????? Sorry if I offend you man... was not my intention. I dont know who the fellow is in the vidio. I'm sorry but I couldnt understand much of the verbiage... I did hear something about tripping the perp then shooting him. I'm sure they guy in the vid has a bunch of experience... It's great that he wants to share it...

June 12, 2013, 08:30 PM	#19
ThatBeardedGuy Member Join Date: May 16, 2013 Posts: 86	Here I was thinking footwork wasn't complicated in shooting. __________________ TXARNG: 2007 - Present "We're gonna turn left!!" - NASCAR, in a nutshell.

June 13, 2013, 01:21 AM	#20
MarkDozier Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Posts: 363	You would be much better serve by using the combat glide for your footwork in a dynamic setting.

June 13, 2013, 01:02 PM	#23
SgtLumpy Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2013 Posts: 779	I suggest that the guy in the video, still not sure if it's the OP or someone else, might very well be a great guy, great shooter, great martial artist, great street smarts person. Just not a great video producer. No problem. We're not video producers, we're shooters. But I, and apparently some others, had a very hard time distilling any kind of message, training, suggestions from the video. Again, that's not a problem. But it simply means it's another anonymous guy on YouTube saying something that most people won't "get" because the presentation is disorganized. Stay relaxed. It's hot out. Sgt Lumpy

June 13, 2013, 01:46 PM	#24
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	I do like the video's and DVD's from Paladin Press...on the art of knife fighting, firearms and survival tactics. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell

June 14, 2013, 10:14 AM	#25
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	The main point of heading out, with your partner, into the streets of your City/Town, in my estimation, because this is basically a gun forum. Have enough gun, and skill with same, if it becomes a gun play scenario. Back in Sept. 2004, in Dayton Ohio, we, my wife and I, stepped into an elevator, big Hotel. As the doors closed, young man, in suit, with martini in right hand. My very attractive, well dressed Wife, pressed #2, floor to walkway to parking garage. Our new companion, ignored me, told the Lovely Indian Lady, "I need a hug" and lifted his left foot, in preparation to step forward, which I stopped by coming under his armpit, and driving him into the rear of the small elevator, and the wooden board built to stop damage, he froze. I was carrying a pistol, never thought of the gun.