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Old February 23, 2018, 08:04 AM   #76
briandg
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I'm not Bob Mundon, nobody but Bob mundon is Bob mundon. he can put genuine rounds out in less time than it takes my glock to cycle.

The experience can do it quicker than a goon with his high point, not me, if some cannot put a round in the belly in the time it takes for a goon to pull the trigger accurately, the single action is a viable choice. Otherwise, the defender needs to look elsewhere at something that we can deploy more rapidly, or practice. I believe that an saa style can be just as fast if you have naked leather and the shooter is really good. Otherwise, for people with ordinary performance will almost certainly be quicker in their ability to draw and fire accurately with any other gun.

To me, that sums up everything. Can you deploy and use in less time than one or maybe two goons can pull the trigger of a gun that is pointed at you? Carry whatever you can do so with.. Otherwise, its just not smart.

Just carry whatever you can effectively deploy faster and accurately, and your gun will be good enough. Being personally good enough to do so while out to dinner is a matter of training, and if the carrier can't perform better than an alternative gun, under non-paper circumstances, that too is kinda dumb.
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Old February 23, 2018, 11:28 AM   #77
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Ok, this thread has gone on for 4 pages and there are lots of points made. Many of them good points.

But the bottom line is that most gun-buffs get very concentrated on guns and gear (which not not a bad thing) but forget that in any fight the victory will go to the better fighter no mater what tools he has. You can't beat good luck and get around bad luck, but you can't make luck. You CAN make skill and you should.

In most cases of defense outside of open warfare where you are facing a lot of enemies at one time, a SA revolver is going to be just as good as an high capacity auto if the shooter knows how to move and has a high degree of skill as a marksman, because in the largest percentage of shootings, the first hit determines who's going to win. Not all, but those cases where the one hit first still wins are usually the same cases where the better warrior is unlucky and gets hit first, but because he's got the skills and the MINDSET he still wins.

Like so many posts here, in fact most of them, the focus is on the gun and not on the man. This is the wrong mindset. Focus on the man and learn to fight. In fights shooting is about 2% of the equation. 98% is the man, using cover, concealment and movement correctly. It's like hunting. The bullet in in flight only a short fraction of a second for most hunts but you may spend the whole day using concealment and movement to get the shot. Fighting is just like that! It's the hunter that makes the difference, not his super modern fancy gun.

Just consider this:
Many men, myself included, have killed many head of game with revolvers I have done so with SA revolvers about 14 times, and DA revolvers about 25 more.
I have never fired 2 shots at any game with a SA revolver. Not one time! Every time I have fired at a deer, elk bear or buffalo I killed it with one shot. 100% of the time so far.
Why would shooting an enemy be any different if my tactics are good?

I am not going to be blazing away at someone who has a "better" gun and exchanging fire if I use my tactics correctly. I am going to seek cover and conceal myself and wait for my opportunity. I'd do the same if I had as SA Colt 45 or an AK 47, or anything else for that matter. If I use combat tactics correctly I should shoot 1 shot per bad guy.

Is that delusional?

Not near as much as TV and "experts" seem to tell you. In fact, in real fights that's USUALLY the way it works if one man has the training he should have and the other doesn't.

The blazing shootouts fall into 2 categories.

#1 bad luck (again no training can deliver you from this and your weapon will not matter. Hathcock has a large bounty on his head in Vietnam and the NVA could not collect it but the AmTrack he was riding on hit a mine. There is no defense from bad luck.

#2 combatants on both sides that don't understand how to fight. This is pretty common.

In the cases, nearly ALL the cases, where one combatant is well trained and skilled at shooting you will not hear much. Why? Because the skilled man ended it in a VERY short time and fired very few shots.

This is far more common than you think. But gets very little press coverage.
Even in open warfare, this kind of action is not uncommon and it ends fast.

Would I choose a SA revolver as my standard carry. No. But I am quite skilled with my SA Ruger and I am sure that I could,m should I desire to. It's large and fairly heavy and I have more compact guns so I do not carry my SA as my day to day gun. But not because it would be sub-standard in a fight.

In police work or military deployments I would never choose an SA because I EXPECT to fight and because I EXPECT to fight more than 1 man at the same time. When I was a Marine I carried a 1911A1 and when I worked for DOD I carried a S&W M58 when I was sent to central and south America.

I could reload the S&W far faster than I can reload my Ruger Super Blackhawk, but in the cases where I needed to reload (3 of them) I had time to do so and I only had loose rounds in my right front pants pocket. I am 100% sure in those cases, if I'd had my SA revolver, I would have been just fine.

For my life as a civilian I would have no gripes about my SA other than it's size. Many other guns are "better' because in a few cases the slow reload is going to be a danger, but those cases are actually fairly rare in civilian life. I do carry "better" guns, but the idea that a man with a SA is "unarmed" is the idea of a fool.

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Old February 23, 2018, 11:41 AM   #78
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Before anyone extolls the virtues of one handgun type over another for CCW, he or she would be well advised to try one out in realistic defensive pistol shooing. I do not mean firing at a target at seven yards or more and evaluating group size. I mean drawing and shooting as quickly as possible to achieve combat accuracy at realistic defensive ranges. Say, drawing in a second and a half and putting three to five rounds in another second or two into an area the size of an upper chest at distances varying from about ten feet to, say, fifteen feet.

Repeatedly, with targets in different locations not known in advance to the defender.

And then, to use it in some realistic FoF training.

One who may have "felt comfortable" with some firearm or other may be in for an eyeopening experience.
I'm going to try this and get back to you.
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Old February 23, 2018, 11:58 AM   #79
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I think it should be noted that the thread was quickly hijacked to make it about pro or con, not the OP's topic.

"OK, I know all the reasons to NOT use a single action revolver as your concealed carry. So please don't go there. I'd like to hear success stories about ccw with a single action. How do you carry, what kind of holster, where did you get the holster, how do you manage reloads? Etc. I know some of you open carry a single action, and that's cool. But only looking for concealed carry ideas right now. Thanks. "
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Old February 23, 2018, 02:17 PM   #80
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Reteach you started an interesting thread. The problem I see with a single action for concealed carry is not shot capacity but that most have at least a 4" barrel (not talking NAA guns) and big cylinders. Its hard to stick one in your pocket like a 5 shot snubby.

But N Frame S&W guns have the same problem. Too big for pocket carry. Put it on a belt and you can carry about anything. But you need a coat or an untucked shirt to cover it. IIRC it was an old lawman of El Paso, Dallas Stoudemire had leather pockets sewn into his pants and carried his single actions in that manner.

I won't get into wheather a slow to reload SA is acceptable for SD use. Thats already been talked about.
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Old February 23, 2018, 04:15 PM   #81
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Real Gun - Thanks for trying twice to get things back to the original question. Also thanks to others for the positive responses.

But it's been fun to read most of the replies. As Ratshooter says, it's interesting even if it's off the main topic. More ideas about how it can work would be good, but knowledge is knowledge. Keep it going.
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Old February 23, 2018, 04:40 PM   #82
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By the way - took my Single Seven to the range yesterday. It's the birds head with 3 3/4 inch barrel.
The nay-sayers are right. It's slow to load and it's pretty slow to thumb the hammer and pull the trigger. I concentrated on all of it and built up some speed, but it was still never as fast as the semi-auto I took along.
But the little Ruger shot straight. That part was easy as pie. I'm a fair shot with revolvers and semi's and I wasn't disappointed with the targets I shot with the Glock, but the Ruger targets were better.
Also, JUST FOR FUN, I tried some .32 acp in the Ruger and it worked fine. (Someone asked about that in another thread.) No recoil whatsoever, fired and ejected just fine, and flew straight. Not saying it will work for everyone.
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Old February 23, 2018, 04:46 PM   #83
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I did use a single action to get myself out of a tight spot once. It wasn't concealed. It was just on my belt in a holster. Here's the story.

I received a 10' Jon boat from grandmother. I decided to take it fishing at a spot my mother used to drop me off at and come back 4-5 hours later and get me. In my absence the neighborhood had changed the ethnicity of who lived there. Apparently white boys were no longer welcome. I didn't know this when I got there.

I had been given a Ruger Single Six and had put it in my tackle box. The only time I have ever done that before or since. Anyway after about 30 minutes of a very uncomfortable feeling like I was being talked about by the group standing at the boat dock I decided to leave. While out in the water I put the gun on my belt.

When I got back to the shore the first person I met was walking down the road with a gallon jug of wine that was almost empty. He looked at me and the gun on my hip and joined the others at the dock. I am sure he spread the word I was armed.

I got my truck and loaded the little boat and off I went. I didn't stop for over a mile. Then I stopped and tied my boat in. I didn't care if it stayed in or not. All I wanted was to be gone. I give credit to having a gun that day. I didn't care what type of gun, just a gun. I have never been back to that area.

If you live in Ft worth Tx it is known as the "Warm Water" area at Lake Arlington. A very bad neighborhood now.
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Old February 23, 2018, 08:18 PM   #84
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while a 5-shot 38 Special with toned down ammo and no reload, somewhere stuck in a pocket, is the Holy Grail of concealed carry
When is this post from? 1975? That's about how long ago the J frame was da berries for concealed carry.
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Old February 23, 2018, 10:03 PM   #85
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When is this post from? 1975? That's about how long ago the J frame was da berries for concealed carry.
Must be a generation thing then. I recall it mentioned repeatedly in other CCW threads here and elsewhere and not decades ago.
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Old February 24, 2018, 03:59 AM   #86
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Semi's have long since taken over concealed carry. Snub nose revolvers still have a strong following among the Fudd crowd though. I like Snubbies but I carry semi's.
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Old February 24, 2018, 06:14 AM   #87
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fudd crowd?
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Old February 24, 2018, 06:30 AM   #88
briandg
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whatever the rest of the armed citizens chooses makes no difference to me. A DA revolver in .357 is good enough to do anything against pretty much any human being. I have carried a trooper in inside jacket pocket. I have carried a K in the same situation. I have carried in a vertical shoulder holster. I spent decades with these guns before I bought my first semi. It's not hard to learn to shoot a revolver, concealment isn't that hard. If you can hide a 1911 you can hide a K. Same stands for a SA revolver, the size difference isn't enormous.

Sure, a bunch of rounds of nine can be put into a person. The heavy magnum is a great choice and eventually with practice, a double tap is easily done with either system.

I can put accurate rounds into target just as rapidly with my revolvers as I do with my semi. Shooting those revolvers SA is almost as quick as Da. A SA isn't the same, but anyone can train themselves to make that second hammer cock and shot before the target recovers from the first round, unless the guy is just tougher than wood.

Don't dismiss revolvers for power, or concealability for part of the year. It also helps a lot if you don't wear a wifebeater shirt, flip flops, and baggy shorts.

Success with a SA revolver is going to be almost all about training. Concealment is another issue. honestly, I have put whatever I have handy into my jacket. Isn't having the thing on your person a huge part of success?
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Old February 24, 2018, 07:47 AM   #89
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fudd crowd?
The other Elmer.
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Old February 24, 2018, 12:07 PM   #90
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To join this discussion and then imply that many of the participants are Fudds seems to me to be rather bad form if your desire is to have an honest discussion. That term does not usually carry a good connotation with those who use it. You may be revealing more about yourself.
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Old February 24, 2018, 12:24 PM   #91
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I don't look lik that, nor do I have a speech impediment, and I sure don't run around the landscape shooting at anything that breathes.
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Old February 24, 2018, 04:42 PM   #92
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What Wyosmith posted in #77 above; it just has the ring of truth to it. I only carry a Vaquero in a cross-draw holster on the left hip that occasionally is covered by clothing. No real intention to conceal, it just happens. That's in the woods; around town, I'm unarmed except for my chainsaws. The Portland Metro-region, by and large, just isn't that bad. If I were to desire a concealed-carry rig, I think I would opt for a shoulder rig that places the gun under the left arm vertically and deploying cross-draw. I think it's a pretty big gun for that, but a person could get used to it.
I tried to stay out of this thread, but the, "wifebeater shirt", comment provoked my curiosity. Never heard that one. I musta been born somewhere out of touch....
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Old February 24, 2018, 07:59 PM   #93
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Old February 27, 2018, 08:01 AM   #94
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If it floats your boat go for it, you can always get an LCR for a back-up.
The reason for doing it is because it looks cool, and the likely-hood you will need it is small. Now if you owned a check cashing business I would say stick with a Glock or an HK.
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Old February 27, 2018, 09:21 AM   #95
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The reason for doing it is because it looks cool, and the likely-hood you will need it is small. Now if you owned a check cashing business I would say stick with a Glock or an HK.
Should it be needed, the requirement will the same no matter what the likelihood of occurrence may have been.
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Old February 27, 2018, 09:53 AM   #96
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Should it be needed, it will be better than the 45 you left at home. The problem comes when there is a false sense of security.
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Old February 27, 2018, 10:30 AM   #97
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I have a friend that carries a SA Ruger everyday. He carries it in a very nice custom holster on his strong side. He purchased the holster from me after I sold the SA Ruger it was made for. I'd considered carrying an SA some but my strong side hand was not large enough to thumb clock the hammer when I would draw the revolver. I'm much faster getting my 1911 into action then I was with an SA Revolver so I carry my 1911. Carry what you like and what you're proficient with is my motto.
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Old February 27, 2018, 10:41 AM   #98
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Carry what you like and what you're proficient with is my motto.
That's a pretty good rule.

It is, of course, important to have good idea of what constitutes "proficiency" in a particular context.
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Old February 27, 2018, 10:47 AM   #99
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As usual those passing judgment and making disparaging remarks are those least qualified to do so. I don't do it often but those I know who do, do so because it's what they shoot all the time. By all the time, I mean all the time. Tens of thousands of rounds a year and they'd rather pull their own teeth than spend five minutes with a Glock.

It's also comical that people will dismiss competition shooting involving single action revolvers but espouse IPDA or IPSC as combat practice for the automatic. In the end, what will matter most is the Indian, not the arrow.
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Old February 27, 2018, 01:47 PM   #100
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The gun is nothing but a tool...”Indian vs. arrow” i get it

BUT, some tools do some jobs better. I can put in a screw with a hammer. That doesnt make it the best tool for the job.

A single action revolver is just not the best tool for the job of self defense in todays world.
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