Is reloading paying you guys off these days?

[ARGarrison]

Pistol brass wears out when it will no longer hold a primer. That being said, I've had nickel plated brass, in .357 magnum, split on me after only a few loadings.

Rilfe brass is streching with each fireing. That's why they make trimmers. Most will get brittle if not annealled every so often and crack when worked. The Rifle brass does wear out, diffent cartridges, loadings, and action types are harded on them than others. Look for split necks, seprated case walls, head separation or pending seperation, denting, and the ever possable crushed case.

[CrustyFN]

I load mostly 9mm and 223, just starting to load 38/357. I shoot a lot of IDPA and GSSF so I go through a lot of 9mm. I load and shoot them until they split. With rounds like 45 auto you will get a lot more loadings out of the brass because of the lower pressure. I have talked to people that have loaded 45 brass 45 times or more. I started reloading just to save money and got hooked very quick. For me it is just very relaxing to sit in front of the press and pull the handle, or trim and prep 223 brass. Don't be afraid to pick up brass at the range and use it. Just inspect it to make sure the brass is OK. If I had to guess I would say about 98% of my brass are range pickups and I have thousands of cases.
Rusty

[FM12]

If I didn't reload, I couldn't afford to shoot. With the cost of reloading components going up, don't know if I can even afford that much longer. Is is my FAVORITE hobby also. Sometimes I shoot just so I can reload more.

[WNTFW]

What Crusty said is true in my opinion.

My uncle & I reload now. At the range we look like a bunch of kids after the pinata gets busted. I love range brass. You have to inspect your brass no matter what so you might as well start. I'm leaving with some good brass if the other guys don't reload. Something about being free makes it way more attractive.

Some advice I took for .223 was to buy at least a 100 rounds of new brass to start with. You still have to inpsect / size / trim - whatever else. Your cleaning & sizing will be almost nothing. Primer pockets are new & no crimps.
It will be more consistent than range pickup, less defects, same headstamp. It will let you concentrate more on the loading. You can see the powder in the case better. You know the origin. I didn't realize how good the advice was till after I took it.

Later,
WNTFW

[SteelJM1]

So what are your guy's experience/opinions on the Lee turret press? I'm looking for a bit more volume than a single stage can offer (if i buy 4 cases of greek surplus, thats ~3200 rounds to reload!) but i dont want the headaches and such with a full progressive press, especially being so new at it. To me it seems that the turret reloader is good for volume to do the pistol and 30-06 brass, but you can switch it to single stage operation for more exact reloading which is what I'd want to reload .243 in. And Lee stuff seems to be pretty good for the price.

[Selfdfenz]

Many turret users on this forum. Most seem to like it. Hit the search function and by the time you get thru reading all of it we'll have moved on to ray guns and you won't even need a press.

Reloading is a fun and educational adventure.
Best of luck,

S-

[CrustyFN]

So what are your guy's experience/opinions on the Lee turret press?

I load on a Lee classic turret and think it's a great press. I can load around 200 rounds per hour pistol and after case prep 300 rifle. It's a very solid press and very easy to use.
Rusty

[73-Captain]

I've been on this and other forums for months, just for laughs...
And for the 5% good info. from the very few very knowledgeable people here.
Typical of most of the internet, forums are full of BS. These forums in
particular are full of OPINIONATED, KNOW-NOTHING, SELF PROCLAIMED EXPERTS.

I REALLY DON'T like posting anything on the forums and don't intend to argue with spoiled children having tantrums over who's toys are better.

My first post was in response to a clown who said it cost $200 to change calibers on a Dillon XL650.

Now we have someone claiming "A Dillon 650 press (and all the startup accessories) is $ 1500 for 1 caliber" and costs "...or $500 per caliber".

So now we are going to have my second post.

1 - Just what does this person consider to be "all the startup accessories"?


2 - How does this person go from a XL650 that cost $490 and a set of dies (TC Pistol) for $58. That's about $900 in "startup accessories".

Sure you can buy everything Dillon shows but you really DON'T NEED everything to "start up"!

Fact, you CAN buy and use a XL650 WITHOUT the casefeed assembly. I'd recommend anyone who has never used a XL650 start out that way. Doing this and loading ONE case at a time through all stages turns the XL650 into THE BEST "turret" press made! Once someone is used to single loading cases they can try loading a case every time they pull the handle. After that, buy a casefeed assembly if you want to.

I STILL use my XL650 this way for load development or for loading small batches.


3 - Even if you accept this persons list of "startup accessories", his addition and total of $1500 "for 1 caliber", the cost of adding calibers/cartridges varies but is FAR LESS than shown.

Specific Examples - I purchased my XL650 in .44 Magnum.

In order to load 10mm Auto I NEED
1 - a "Caliber Conversion Kit" for $70
2 - Dillon TC Die set for $58
TOTAL $128

To take advantage of the "quick change" features of the XL650 and not have to swap dies between toolheads I NEED
1 - Toolhead for $21
2 - Powder Die (allows Q-C of powder measure) for $8
TOTAL now $157


To load the .40 S&W I NEED
1 - NOTHING
TOTAL now for 2 cartridges is STILL $157

To load .38 Special I need
1 - a "Caliber Conversion Kit" for $70
2 - Dillon TC Die set for $58
3 - Toolhead for $21
4 - Powder Die for $8
TOTAL now for 3 cartridges is $314

To load the .357 Magnum I NEED
1 - NOTHING
TOTAL now for 4 cartridges is STILL $314

To load the .45ACP I need
1 - a "Caliber Conversion Kit" for $70
2 - Dillon TC Die set for $58
3 - Toolhead for $21
4 - Powder Die for $8
TOTAL now for 5 cartridges is $471

To load the 8x57mm Mauser I NEED
1 - Powder Funnel for $9
2 - Lee Die set for $21
3 - Toolhead for $21
4 - Powder Die for $8
TOTAL now for 6 cartridges is $530

So, even if you accept the cost for a XL650 in 1 caliber with "all the startup accessories" as $1500, you can CLEARLY SEE I added 6 (vs.5) cartridges for $530 NOT the CLAIMED $1500!


You can increase your costs per cartridge if you want. You can buy "powder checks", "toolhead stands" and "powder measures" for every cartridge if you want. I buy One of everything for those cartridges I load the most.

Example: I have 5 powder checks. Four of the 5 are installed on the toolheads of the 4 cartridges I load the most. The 5th powder check is swapped between all the others. I have a few toolhead stands for my most loaded cartridges and my son made a stand for the rest from a 1x6 and some wood dowel. Dillon makes "powder charge bars" in Large, Small and X-Small so I currently have 3 powder measures, one with each of the 3 size charge bars already installed.



The "Shell Plate" serves the same function as the "Shell Holder" on a single stage press. Like a "Shell Holder" you don't have to buy one for every cartridge. You need ONE for every "family" of cases that have the same "head dimensions".

The Dillon "Caliber Conversion Kit" INCLUDES the "Shell Plate". That one "Shell Plate" is used for the .45ACP plus all the .308W based cartridges (.243W, .260R, 7mm-08, .338F, .358W & ?), all the .30-06 based cartridges (.25-06, .270W, .280R, .338-06, .35Whelen & ?), the 6.5x57mm, 7x57mm and 8x57mm Mauser cartridges, maybe the .22-250, the .250 and .300 Savage and possibly the 6.5x55mm.

To load any of these on the XL650 you need just the dies of course, the correct powder funnel for $9 and you really should have separate toolhead ($21) and powder die ($6) for each.

In order to use the casefeed assembly you will need a few small and relatively cheap items. But, remember that many of these parts work for the same "case family" or case length.

Example: I'm not sure if I'm using the correct nomenclature but Using the 19 above list of cartridges you would need 2 "CF Adapters", one for the .45ACP and one for everything else (51mm, 57mm and 63mm cases).


With many other Dillon parts there might be just 4 sizes. Example: Small Pistol, Large Pistol, Small Rifle and Large Rifle.

Once you have all 4 sizes you don't need any more regardless of how many cartridges you reload.

What I do is buy the COMPLETE "Caliber Conversion Kit" if I need the "Shell Plate". If I don't need the "Shell Plate" I buy the individual parts. Eventually you can add cartridges without adding any additional parts. An example was for me to add the 6.5 Grendel. Since I already loaded the 7.62x39mm I had the correct "Caliber Conversion Kit" for the 6.5 Grendel. The "Powder Funnel" for the .260Rem. is used. The XL-650 instructions has a guide that shows the parts required for many popular cartridges. Anything not listed, CALL Dillon!



To dispel a few other MYTHS and internet BS...

First, that the Dillon XL650 won't load "long" cartridges. The Dillon "Blue Press" catalog lists the .458 Win. Mag., the .375 H&H Mag., and the Remington Ultra Mags. I can load the .45-110 (.45-2.875"). How much longer do you need?



Second, that you can't load many cartridges on the XL650. Again referring to the Dillon "Blue Press" catalog, the list of "XL650 Caliber Conversion Kit / Machine Stock Numbers" is NOT an ALL INCLUSIVE LIST OF EVERY cartridge that the Dillon XL650 will load. The same is true of the Dillon 550, it will load more than is shown in the listing.

This list is what it says it is, a list of "part numbers" for ordering either specific "Caliber Conversion Kits" or complete machines set-up for a specific cartridge. You can load many more cartridges than what is shown.

Example: With the .45-70 "Caliber Conversion Kit" I can also load the .45-90, .45-100, .45-110 and maybe the .45-120 (at 3.25" CL it might be too long). Once again you might have to add small, cheap parts such as shorter "powder funnels" and for the casefeed assembly different "CF Adapters". Believe it or not this "Caliber Conversion Kit" can also be used for 7.62x54Rmm (Russian) with the proper powder funnel!

Second example: Dillon Makes the 550 "Conversion" for both the 7x57mm and 8x57mm Mauser but only shows "Conversion" and "machine" numbers for the XL650 for the 8x57mm. This does NOT mean you can't load the 7x57mm on a XL650! You buy the Dillon "Kit" or "Machine" in 8x57mm and add a SINGLE $9 part, the "powder funnel". In this way, although neither the 550 or the XL650 shows the 6.5x57mm Mauser, you can load it on EITHER machine with the correct "powder funnel".

C.

[cheezhed]

My rockchucker is as old as the hills and at the time of purchase it seemed hard to justify the cost of the press but in the not so long run it has payed for itself so many times over that it would have been a big mistake not to have bought it. The ammo is so much better that it does't matter if you are saving money. I get a lot of satisfaction of loading my ammo and yes it is quite a bit cheaper than good factory ammo. Shooting is an addictive hobby and if you aquire several calibers like many shooters do then the savings are multiplied.

[KeithB78]

100 White box Winchester 45acp at Walmart is $29 i can load 100 for $14
52% savings

but as someone said yo udon't really save money, you just get to shoot more

[hunter64]

I totally agree with what has been said about 50% savings give or take a few either way. The more popular calibers you can sometimes find good ammo at about the same price as reloaded stuff but as stated it will dry up. In the early 90's in Canada where I live you could buy 6.5 Swedish Mauser for dirt cheap, I bought 2 for 110 for the both of them. The military surplus ammo was cheap also and they were great little guns to play with. Well then the war happened in the Balkans and that ended that. Now to find 6.5mm stuff you have to buy specialty ammo at 45 bucks a box, ouch. You go to a gun store now and you will not see a 6.5 anywhere. Same with some of the more popular calibers like 444 marlin. At my local store they go for 40-45 bucks a box. I cast my own bullets and my reloads run under 6 bucks a box, that is a huge savings.
Go here for a reload cost calculator http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp
and plug in the numbers and it will tell you what it costs to reload your ammo.

As far as reloading equipment goes you can always go cheap and work up later if you want. I still have my single stage RCBS Rocky that I bought in the early 70's and I do all my rifle stuff on it. As far as pistol ammo goes I bought a Lee 1000 used from a guy for 50 bucks set up for .357 mag. To convert to another caliber you can buy everything you need for 65 bucks for each caliber. Or you can do as I did and buy used 1000's off of ebay for 60-70 bucks each in all the calibers you run. I have 6 1000 machines all dedicated to there own caliber. I just unbolt the one I am using and put the next one in its place, load the powder and primers and away I go, no fiddling and diddling with the conversions.

It all depends on how much you are reloading, for me my little setup is perfect for the amount that I do. I know the Dillons are good but I am so used to my 1000's and they are very easy to repair if needed that I will stick to the ones I have, and they have long since paid for themselves.

[TexasSeaRay]

I loaded up some 380 ACP 95gn JRN this evening for around three bucks per box of 50. My wife likes shooting 38 spcl 148 gn LWC--I can load those up ridiculously cheap.

Where I really save money is in the 44 and 45 calibre ranges. I enjoy shooting 44 spcl and 44 magnum, but factory costs are really up there. Once I had collected enough brass, I was set.

I buy primers in bulk and always keep plenty of powder on hand. I have a large pantry-style storage area in my workshop (where my reloading bench is) and it is packed with containers of brass in all calibres--including a lot of calibres for which I don't own weapons (collect it and keep it for trading).

A number of years ago, I made it a point that on every payday (twice a month), I was going to buy 1000 bullets just to store next to the brass. Been doing that ever since.

Now it's like reloading is free.

Jeff

[qajaq59]

When has any hobby ever saved you money? With a little reading and effort you're likely to get some real good ammo. You also will likely shoot a lot more, and hopefully becoming better at it. But loading just to save money? I don't think so. It's a fun hobby. Just do it and enjoy the results.

[Huntzalittle]

IMO, if saving money and making the best use of my time was the main objective for my intended purpose...then I'd just go to Wal-mart and buy beef, pork and poultry. And maybe buy a paper punch too for making holes in paper targets.

[CrustyFN]

73-Captain welcome to the forum. It's great to finally have a non-opinionated expert on the forum.
Rusty

[DWARREN123]

I am able to get what I want without paying extreme prices. I reload for 32 H&R mag, 357 mag, 380 ACP, 9mm and 40 S&W.

[Redneck with a 40]

For me, it definitely saves money and allows me to shoot far more ammo, than would be possible using factory loads. I bought my Lee Turret press kit (not the classic) for $100, 2 years ago, add 40 S&W dies and 38/357 dies, and I was only in $140 bucks.

Factory 40 ammo now = $13-$16/box
Factory 357 ammo = $15/box all the way up to $30/box

My 40 S&W reloads = $5.75/box
My 357 mag reloads = $6/box

I shoot 200 rounds a month, or 4 boxes. That's $52/month in factory 40 ammo, but only $23 in my reloads. For 357, its $60/month on the low end, vs $24/month with my reloads. I recovered that $140 in just a few month's time.

If I were still using factory ammo, I could only afford to shoot one box per month, thank god for reloading. Ditto the hobby aspect, its very fun, educational, and rewarding.

[billindenver]

73-captain, I'd like to dispell an internet myth or two for you as well.

1. When you come on a board and your first few sentences show you are a jerk...people just skip your post

2. When you write a 4 page long diatribe on how smart you are...few people even bother to read past the second paragraph.

3. Preaching about the Internet BS of people with bad attitudes and poor delivery skills, while displaying both traits yourself....well, that's just sorta ignorant don't you think?

Please, do yourself the favor of not wasting time sharing your massive knowledge for our benefit...we do just fine without you. Carry on.

Bill

[ShootingNut]

If I had to buy factory ammo, I wouldn't have made it to the range 3 times last week, shooting 469 rounds of ammo. Man those semi's are hungry!
Around here, powder and primer prices have remained pretty stable, about
22 bucks for 1lb of powder, and 1000 WSP.
Lead is another story, it is heading north. But still, the savings reloading your own are significant. Plus, for me it is fun and keeps me from going nut's in my spare time!

[jhansman]

In terms of cost per round, I dunno and frankly, don't care. What it costs is what it costs. In terms of interest, relaxation and satisfaction, reloading is paying dividends.

[billindenver]

With my 30-06 rounds I get about 120 rounds in a $20lb of powder or $.17 each. Bullets run about $20 per 100 or $.20 each. Primers are something like $4 per 100 as I recall or $.04 each. Brass is $30 for 100, but lets say you can conservatively use it 5 times. 500 uses for $30 is .06 each. So..

.17 + .20 + .04 + .06 = .47 each reload

20 x .47 = $9.40 per box.

That is cheaper than I can get it for in the store by about $5 a box (federal power shok). it takes me about 2 hours to make 50 rounds...so I'm making about $7.50 an hour or so. I'm not sure the economics work that well in a 30-06, some of the more hollywood rounds might be a different story. There is enjoyment in it though. Today I shot a 5/8" ragged hole at 100 yards with a reload I've been working along. Not done tweaking it yet by any stretch. It's fun when you take 10 different 5 round loads to the range. Some of them shoot a 1 1/2 inch horrible group and you know your gun does not like that load. Then as you move up in powder or closer to the lands or both, you see things tighten up....there is some value in it for me in that I can make a choice and see it pay off with a tighter group.

Smacking that manhole cover 10 out of ten times at 500 yards on a load you just put together this morning.....priceless.

Bill

[Mach II Sailor]

Is reloading paying you guys off these days?

most definitely, considering i spent a couple thousand $,$$$ about 5 or 6 years ago stocking up

[hikingman]

Yes! It's no contest.

Just for fun, I bought a box of loaded ammo last night at Gander Mtn....no comparison.

[Crosshair]

It is paying off for me, but the increasing cost of commercial cast bullets is pushing me to cast my own. I have already found a supply of wheel weights and started learning as much as I can. I plan to begin smelting WW into ingots within 2-3 months and begin casting operations within 5 months, funds permitting.

There is also the possibility that I will sell some of my cast bullets at gun shows to reloaders who don't cast their own. (If they don't sell, I'll just use them myself. Win-Win. ) The commercial casters use virgin metals where WW are much cheaper. Not to mention the cost of shipping.

[Sgt.Dusk]

You cant save any money reloading....
....but you shoot a lot more with same amount of cash.