mauser problem

xrvic · January 6, 2015, 11:12 PM

I just got through putting a 22-250 AI together on a mauser 98 action. I bought this at a gun show someone did a lot of work to it the front has been trued,a timmley trigger installed. the rear of the action is milled for a scope mount. I threaded the barrel, chambered it, and set the head space with a bare bolt. It closes on the go wont close on no go. I put the bolt back together with a empty brass in the bolt. The extractor hits the barrel not letting bolt to close. Take the brass out bolt closes. I have not had this happen before don't know what to do. Could a notch be milled on the barrel face where the extractor hits, about .010 -.015. deep this would be enough for clearance. From the face of the receiver to the inner ring is .6335 is this good or bad. any ideas.

James K · January 6, 2015, 11:31 PM

Deleted.

HankC1 · January 6, 2015, 11:56 PM

My guess is the extractor tension preventing it from riding over the rim which is common for control feed. Either feed the round from mag or relieve the extractor tension.

James K · January 7, 2015, 12:11 AM

I had thought the rifle might be a Yugo FN 24 or M48 in which case the barrel does have to be relieved, but I see it is a Mauser 98. The inner collar should give enough space for the extractor in that case, but it still might be necessary to slightly relieve the barrel. One idea might be to use Dykem to see where the extractor is rubbing.

If you do need to remove the barrel, make witness marks on the receiver and barrel so you can line them up on reassembly and keep the headspace correct.

Jim

**4V50 Gary** · January 7, 2015, 12:31 AM

Has that brass been sized?

Scorch · January 7, 2015, 02:52 AM

James K, I think the OP reference to a M98 is generic and maybe not actual. My first thought was as yours "it must be a 48".

xrvic · January 7, 2015, 10:45 PM

I have tried sized brass and no sized. I put dye on barrel and extractor and know where it is touching. I have not yet tried feeding from mag, but I will. I was not sure about making a relief cut for the exactor. This my first 98 I usually stay with Yugo's. But I could not find one. Thanks for the help. Will let you know

tobnpr · January 8, 2015, 08:01 AM

This is way above my pay grade, but since I'm trying to learn (and understand the mechanics involved in chambering/barreling)...

If the shoulder of the barrel had been set further back when threading (moving the breech end forward), this issue wouldn't exist? My initial thought was the barrel tenon length is too long, but if that were the case wouldn't there be insufficient headspace (closes on the go gauge)?

Cutting an extractor relief cut would seem to be the easiest fix, no experience with Mausers but I've seen a bunch of re-barreled Mosin-Nagants with cuts nearly the full dia of the barrel because they didn't clock correctly when installed.

Now, hopefully someone that actually knows what they're talking about will chime in...

HiBC · January 8, 2015, 08:29 AM

IMO,HankC nailed it.Take adeep breath,OP!I think probably all is as it should be..

The Mauser is a controlled round feed.That means the case head needs to come up from the magazine with the case head in contact with the bolt face,On the way,it slips under the extractor.
Now,yes,if the extractor is carefully shaped it can be modified to snap over as a push feed.But there is some compromise in extraction power when that is done.Anyway,please just try feeding up from the mag...and thank HankC!!
If empty brass argues with feeding,pull the bolt,install brass on bolt face,re-install bolt.

**44 AMP** · January 8, 2015, 01:23 PM

Quote:

I put the bolt back together with a empty brass in the bolt.

I take this to mean case installed on the boltface, under the extractor, as if it had fed from the magazine. (if this is not the case, please specify)

If the extractor is hitting the barrel with a case in the CORRECT position on the bolt face, the extractor would hit the barrel with NO case on the bolt face, as well.

Is this the case?

IF not, something else is going on and I'm not understanding it from your descriptions.

HiBC · January 8, 2015, 03:11 PM

OK,I was going by post 7 "I have not fed up from mag"

Ideal,Q-tip some Prussian blue into the breech area,with brass installed in bolt,repeat excersize.The blue will transfer when it contacts the extractor.

Now,two things.Maybe the extractor has a little too much tension,as Hank said.

That can be about the bend in the long spring,or it can be about shaping the extractor hook.Ideally,you do want enough the round is lightly held in the bolt face,but pressed hard to one side is not so good.I have used a small mounted stone,in a drill press to dress the hook back a bit.

If that is satisfactory,maybe just the outer corner of the extractor is contacting barrel or diaphragm when the extractor is under tension.I do not seea problem with dressing a small amount of steel off the corner of the extractor if only a little clearance is needed

James K · January 8, 2015, 03:51 PM

The Mauser 98 action, if that is what it is, has an inner collar. The barrel tenon butts up against that collar and should do so just as the relatively small shoulder butts against the front of the receiver. The use of that collar allows a lot of leeway in manufacture. Also, the collar has a slot in it at the 3 o'clock position for the extractor, so no cut has to be made in the barrel. (Some FN 98 actions have cuts on both sides because it was easier to machine that way.)

But other actions, including older Mauser actions, have no collar and the bolt head comes up close to or against (or even into, like the M1903) the barrel, necessitating a cutout in the barrel for the extractor. The need to make that extractor cut before installing the barrel usually makes the use of "witness marks" necessary, but that is another story.

Jim

xrvic · January 8, 2015, 10:43 PM

a new unfired brass fed from the magazine. the bolt will not close all the way. when putting dye on the face of the barrel and closing the bolt with a brass installed it leaves a mark on bottom outside corner of the extractor I will to grind a little off extractor how do you relive tension on the extractor thanks

HiBC · January 9, 2015, 04:50 AM

This is a little tricky to talk about.
There are two issues.I have purchased new extractors where the actual hook was not ground very well.The shape of the actualhook,where it engages the brass,is one issue.It is not shaped well to engage the cartridge case.

The other,note the long claw extractor is mostly a spring.It attaches at the extractor collar.That is a fulcrum point.The long end of the extractor is curved,and applies spring pressure to the bolt body via the pad that rests on the bolt body at the rear of the extractor.That spring tension translates via the collar(fulcrum) to spring tension engaging the hook into the case rim relief,the groove.

These work in balance.The cartridge case must have a little "snap in" to retain it on the bolt face as the bolt is drawn back to the ejector.Too loose,and the case drops.It can cause ejection problems.

I cannot explain it all here,but there is a slight amount of subtle shaping/blending that helps the case head "funnel" up under the extractor as the case rocks up the bolt face.

If you have a Dremel type stone,put it in your die grinder or little drill press on high rpm and with a piece of carborundum or an old grinding wheel held as a rock,dress the stone to about .406 diameter.Like,.400 to .410.

Put it in your drill press,fast .You want your bolt body with extractor only installed.remove bolt sleeve,striker assy.

Set your table/spindle height so the tail end of the bolt rests on it,and your stone will engage the extractor hook,but not the bolt face.You want the bolt face to be safe.Glaasses on,turn the drill press on,high speed,Rest the tail of the bolt on the table,and carefully eyeball the extractor hook a few sparks at a time into the stone so it cuts the hook to match a piece of brass on the bolt face.Cut just a little,try a piece of brass.You are shaping the extractor hook to fit the brass with some "snap" as the brass centers in the bolt face.Not much,but some.

Then later,stone a small entry blend on the lower back face and bottom corner to help the brass feed in.

The other part of this is the bend in the long tail of the xtractor.You can just adjust the bend,a light bump with a plastic hammer is one way.Now,this "bump" looks like one you could do with the extractor installed.Imagine the rifle fully assembled and on your shoulder,the "bump" comes from 3 oclock,on the center of the bridge of the extractor tail..Don't get crazy.A little adj and try.

OK,now,look to all the steel you have in the forward outside of the hook,where you have your interference.Look at where the ink transfer says you have a problem,look into the receiver at what is the other obstruction,and judiciously grind a little for clearance.

One other thing to check,though.Your bolt has the two locking lugs plus the safety lug.I once saw a bolt/receiver combination where the safety lug engaged and held the bolt forward.Unlikely,but worth checking.

No telling what the mix of parts might be on an old Mauser.

Did you have to block the rear of the mag and shorten the follower? Just curious.

hooligan1 · January 9, 2015, 06:42 AM

Just an idea, check your bolt and make sure you assembled it correctly, you said with bolt disassembled the go guage went perfect and no go did not go, try brass in dissassembled bolt then proceed.

Could be your brass not fitting chamber correctly.

January 6, 2015, 11:12 PM	#1
xrvic Junior Member Join Date: December 23, 2014 Posts: 6	mauser problem I just got through putting a 22-250 AI together on a mauser 98 action. I bought this at a gun show someone did a lot of work to it the front has been trued,a timmley trigger installed. the rear of the action is milled for a scope mount. I threaded the barrel, chambered it, and set the head space with a bare bolt. It closes on the go wont close on no go. I put the bolt back together with a empty brass in the bolt. The extractor hits the barrel not letting bolt to close. Take the brass out bolt closes. I have not had this happen before don't know what to do. Could a notch be milled on the barrel face where the extractor hits, about .010 -.015. deep this would be enough for clearance. From the face of the receiver to the inner ring is .6335 is this good or bad. any ideas.

January 7, 2015, 12:31 AM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	Keeping it simple (for simple minds like mine) Has that brass been sized? __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 7, 2015, 02:52 AM	#6
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	James K, I think the OP reference to a M98 is generic and maybe not actual. My first thought was as yours "it must be a 48". __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

January 7, 2015, 10:45 PM	#7
xrvic Junior Member Join Date: December 23, 2014 Posts: 6	xrvic I have tried sized brass and no sized. I put dye on barrel and extractor and know where it is touching. I have not yet tried feeding from mag, but I will. I was not sure about making a relief cut for the exactor. This my first 98 I usually stay with Yugo's. But I could not find one. Thanks for the help. Will let you know

January 8, 2015, 08:01 AM	#8
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	This is way above my pay grade, but since I'm trying to learn (and understand the mechanics involved in chambering/barreling)... If the shoulder of the barrel had been set further back when threading (moving the breech end forward), this issue wouldn't exist? My initial thought was the barrel tenon length is too long, but if that were the case wouldn't there be insufficient headspace (closes on the go gauge)? Cutting an extractor relief cut would seem to be the easiest fix, no experience with Mausers but I've seen a bunch of re-barreled Mosin-Nagants with cuts nearly the full dia of the barrel because they didn't clock correctly when installed. Now, hopefully someone that actually knows what they're talking about will chime in... __________________ Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting 07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts Genuine Cerakote Applicator www.biggorillagunworks.com

January 6, 2015, 11:31 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Deleted.

January 6, 2015, 11:56 PM	#3
HankC1 Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 531	My guess is the extractor tension preventing it from riding over the rim which is common for control feed. Either feed the round from mag or relieve the extractor tension.

January 7, 2015, 12:11 AM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I had thought the rifle might be a Yugo FN 24 or M48 in which case the barrel does have to be relieved, but I see it is a Mauser 98. The inner collar should give enough space for the extractor in that case, but it still might be necessary to slightly relieve the barrel. One idea might be to use Dykem to see where the extractor is rubbing. If you do need to remove the barrel, make witness marks on the receiver and barrel so you can line them up on reassembly and keep the headspace correct. Jim

January 8, 2015, 08:29 AM	#9
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	IMO,HankC nailed it.Take adeep breath,OP!I think probably all is as it should be.. The Mauser is a controlled round feed.That means the case head needs to come up from the magazine with the case head in contact with the bolt face,On the way,it slips under the extractor. Now,yes,if the extractor is carefully shaped it can be modified to snap over as a push feed.But there is some compromise in extraction power when that is done.Anyway,please just try feeding up from the mag...and thank HankC!! If empty brass argues with feeding,pull the bolt,install brass on bolt face,re-install bolt.

January 8, 2015, 03:11 PM	#11
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	OK,I was going by post 7 "I have not fed up from mag" Ideal,Q-tip some Prussian blue into the breech area,with brass installed in bolt,repeat excersize.The blue will transfer when it contacts the extractor. Now,two things.Maybe the extractor has a little too much tension,as Hank said. That can be about the bend in the long spring,or it can be about shaping the extractor hook.Ideally,you do want enough the round is lightly held in the bolt face,but pressed hard to one side is not so good.I have used a small mounted stone,in a drill press to dress the hook back a bit. If that is satisfactory,maybe just the outer corner of the extractor is contacting barrel or diaphragm when the extractor is under tension.I do not seea problem with dressing a small amount of steel off the corner of the extractor if only a little clearance is needed

January 8, 2015, 03:51 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The Mauser 98 action, if that is what it is, has an inner collar. The barrel tenon butts up against that collar and should do so just as the relatively small shoulder butts against the front of the receiver. The use of that collar allows a lot of leeway in manufacture. Also, the collar has a slot in it at the 3 o'clock position for the extractor, so no cut has to be made in the barrel. (Some FN 98 actions have cuts on both sides because it was easier to machine that way.) But other actions, including older Mauser actions, have no collar and the bolt head comes up close to or against (or even into, like the M1903) the barrel, necessitating a cutout in the barrel for the extractor. The need to make that extractor cut before installing the barrel usually makes the use of "witness marks" necessary, but that is another story. Jim

January 8, 2015, 10:43 PM	#13
xrvic Junior Member Join Date: December 23, 2014 Posts: 6	mauser problem a new unfired brass fed from the magazine. the bolt will not close all the way. when putting dye on the face of the barrel and closing the bolt with a brass installed it leaves a mark on bottom outside corner of the extractor I will to grind a little off extractor how do you relive tension on the extractor thanks

January 9, 2015, 04:50 AM	#14
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	This is a little tricky to talk about. There are two issues.I have purchased new extractors where the actual hook was not ground very well.The shape of the actualhook,where it engages the brass,is one issue.It is not shaped well to engage the cartridge case. The other,note the long claw extractor is mostly a spring.It attaches at the extractor collar.That is a fulcrum point.The long end of the extractor is curved,and applies spring pressure to the bolt body via the pad that rests on the bolt body at the rear of the extractor.That spring tension translates via the collar(fulcrum) to spring tension engaging the hook into the case rim relief,the groove. These work in balance.The cartridge case must have a little "snap in" to retain it on the bolt face as the bolt is drawn back to the ejector.Too loose,and the case drops.It can cause ejection problems. I cannot explain it all here,but there is a slight amount of subtle shaping/blending that helps the case head "funnel" up under the extractor as the case rocks up the bolt face. If you have a Dremel type stone,put it in your die grinder or little drill press on high rpm and with a piece of carborundum or an old grinding wheel held as a rock,dress the stone to about .406 diameter.Like,.400 to .410. Put it in your drill press,fast .You want your bolt body with extractor only installed.remove bolt sleeve,striker assy. Set your table/spindle height so the tail end of the bolt rests on it,and your stone will engage the extractor hook,but not the bolt face.You want the bolt face to be safe.Glaasses on,turn the drill press on,high speed,Rest the tail of the bolt on the table,and carefully eyeball the extractor hook a few sparks at a time into the stone so it cuts the hook to match a piece of brass on the bolt face.Cut just a little,try a piece of brass.You are shaping the extractor hook to fit the brass with some "snap" as the brass centers in the bolt face.Not much,but some. Then later,stone a small entry blend on the lower back face and bottom corner to help the brass feed in. The other part of this is the bend in the long tail of the xtractor.You can just adjust the bend,a light bump with a plastic hammer is one way.Now,this "bump" looks like one you could do with the extractor installed.Imagine the rifle fully assembled and on your shoulder,the "bump" comes from 3 oclock,on the center of the bridge of the extractor tail..Don't get crazy.A little adj and try. OK,now,look to all the steel you have in the forward outside of the hook,where you have your interference.Look at where the ink transfer says you have a problem,look into the receiver at what is the other obstruction,and judiciously grind a little for clearance. One other thing to check,though.Your bolt has the two locking lugs plus the safety lug.I once saw a bolt/receiver combination where the safety lug engaged and held the bolt forward.Unlikely,but worth checking. No telling what the mix of parts might be on an old Mauser. Did you have to block the rear of the mag and shorten the follower? Just curious. Last edited by HiBC; January 9, 2015 at 04:59 AM.

January 9, 2015, 06:42 AM	#15
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	Just an idea, check your bolt and make sure you assembled it correctly, you said with bolt disassembled the go guage went perfect and no go did not go, try brass in dissassembled bolt then proceed. Could be your brass not fitting chamber correctly. __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.