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Old April 3, 2022, 11:46 AM   #1
mehavey
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Here is comes (again) -- It's the Gun Industry's Fault

> "It’s time to go on the offensive with new measures that empower
> individuals to hold irresponsible and negligent gun industry actors to
> account, crack down on shameful advertising that targets our kids and
> more," Newsom said at the time. "This is not about attacking law-abiding
> gun owners – it’s about stopping the tragic violence ravaging communities
> across the country."
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gav...ing-blame-guns

Pleeeese don't tell me how it won't, it can't, it can never happen in the real Courts....
The mob is being rallied, the message incited and the torches handed out.
Even if deflected, such mobs leave trail of destruction in their wake.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The truth, of course, is that Newsom and the like have aided/abetted/and created a society -- people -- who are the problem,
and crippled the Law Enforcement arms of gov't who are now the only remaining protection.
But I repeat myself
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Old April 3, 2022, 12:21 PM   #2
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We're gun owners. Newsom is happy to blame us for everything up to and including global warming.
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Old April 3, 2022, 02:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Newsom said at the time. "This is not about attacking law-abiding
> gun owners...
I'm afraid it is about attacking law abiding gun owners...

Quote:
– it’s about stopping the tragic violence ravaging communities
> across the country."
Also not true. If it were about stopping the violence, finding, catching, and removing from society those PEOPLE committing the violence would be the priority.

Based on their actions (not their statements) apparently its not the priority.
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Old April 4, 2022, 05:36 AM   #4
mehavey
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>
> "We also continue to call on Congress to act," he said. "Ban ghost guns.
> Require background checks for all gun sales. Ban assault weapons and
> high-capacity magazines. Repeal gun manufacturers’ immunity from liability.
>
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...rn-we-must-act

Facts are irrelevant.
The water is going out of the bay . . . . .
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Old April 4, 2022, 08:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehavey View Post
>
> "We also continue to call on Congress to act," he said. "Ban ghost guns.
> Require background checks for all gun sales. Ban assault weapons and
> high-capacity magazines. Repeal gun manufacturers’ immunity from liability.
>
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...rn-we-must-act

Facts are irrelevant.
The water is going out of the bay . . . . .
It sounds like the AWB of the 90s, with some added stuff plus no sunset clause.
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Old April 4, 2022, 08:20 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
I'm afraid it is about attacking law abiding gun owners...



Also not true. If it were about stopping the violence, finding, catching, and removing from society those PEOPLE committing the violence would be the priority.

Based on their actions (not their statements) apparently its not the priority.
It has never been the priority of gun control to stop criminals. If anything, gun control seeks to control and criminalize gun owners.
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Old April 4, 2022, 01:34 PM   #7
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you can thank the supreme court for refusing to rule on a similar law in Texas empowering individuals to sue abortion providers for providing abortions past a certain time period.Expect a lot more type of laws like this across the country on a variety of issues.
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Old April 4, 2022, 03:16 PM   #8
101combatvet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehavey View Post
> "It’s time to go on the offensive with new measures that empower
> individuals to hold irresponsible and negligent gun industry actors to
> account, crack down on shameful advertising that targets our kids and
> more," Newsom said at the time. "This is not about attacking law-abiding
> gun owners – it’s about stopping the tragic violence ravaging communities
> across the country."
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gav...ing-blame-guns

Pleeeese don't tell me how it won't, it can't, it can never happen in the real Courts....
The mob is being rallied, the message incited and the torches handed out.
Even if deflected, such mobs leave trail of destruction in their wake.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The truth, of course, is that Newsom and the like have aided/abetted/and created a society -- people -- who are the problem,
and crippled the Law Enforcement arms of gov't who are now the only remaining protection.
But I repeat myself
The problem is simple to define; go to the DOJ statistics on crime by race, and there is the answer. Take it further and cross-reference IQ by race, and the results are proof positive. Those that deny the truth in the numbers are aiding the problem. Blaming firearms is an outright lie; this is a people problem.
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Old April 4, 2022, 04:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
If it were about stopping the violence, finding, catching, and removing from society those PEOPLE committing the violence would be the priority.
Holding the folk responsible for the acts is getting some attention here in the Twin Cities. Many of the folk here committing 'gun violence' have extensive criminal histories and are ALREADY on probation or out on bail and a right-wing news source (https://alphanewsmn.com) is starting to connect criminals with the JUDGES that give them probation or set low bail.

Note: MOST judges here run unopposed...that may change. There is currently a bill that would set up a database so you could get info about criminals, there sentences and the judges that sentenced them. This is all public info but the database would make it much more convenient to access.
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Old April 4, 2022, 09:15 PM   #10
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Monday’s arrest was not [Dandrae] Martin’s first brush with the law. In 2014, he was convicted of inflicting corporal injury on a spouse, according to court records reviewed by The Daily Beast. In 2016, he was convicted on state charges in Arizona for aggravated assault and domestic violence by impeding breathing, and was convicted two years later on one count of criminal damage in addition to a marijuana violation, The Sacramento Bee reported.

He was also being held Monday on an outstanding warrant from Riverside County....
https://www.thedailybeast.com/dandre...-dead-cops-say

p.s.... also felon illegally possessing a firearm.
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Old April 4, 2022, 10:05 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by mehavey
p.s.... also felon illegally possessing a firearm.
So obviously we need to establish background check kiosks throughout our cities so criminals people who wish to make personal, face-to-face sales of firearms on dark street corners late at night can conduct the appropriate background checks to ensure that they aren't selling to a career felon prohibited person.
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Old April 5, 2022, 03:26 AM   #12
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Pleeeese don't tell me how it won't, it can't, it can never happen in the real Courts..
Not going to happen. The Protection in Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) was passed to outlaw those nuisance lawsuits. There's a long history behind it, and gun-control advocates have been trying to chip away at it for two decades.

But there aren't the votes to repeal it, so it's just empty rhetoric.

Banning "assault weapons" and magazines? Universal background checks? California already does that.
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Old April 5, 2022, 06:08 AM   #13
mehavey
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Quote:
Not going to happen. The Protection in Lawful Commerce
in Arms Act (PLCAA) was passed
We keep saying that.... hoping it to be so.
But that is exactly what Biden is looking to create enough groundswell -- enough "feel the pain" mob mentality -- to change,

As to banning "certain weapons..." already done once. Enough lemmings turned toward the sea, do it again.

"Votes" is a fluid commodity, and quite mob responsive.
especially when riders to "otherwise popular bills" are used.



post: It's always interesting to read the history of how quickly the worm turns
https://www.encyclopedia.com/history...ntrol-act-1968

.

Last edited by mehavey; April 5, 2022 at 06:14 AM.
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Old April 5, 2022, 02:37 PM   #14
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But that is exactly what Biden is looking to create enough groundswell -- enough "feel the pain" mob mentality -- to change,
A lot of that public groundswell of opinion is guided and shaped by how the media identifies and refers to various laws. They give a law a "popular name" which may or may not have anything to do with the actual content of the law, and/or they constantly use an incorrect and misleading definition of what the law actually does.

In this case, the PLCAA is constantly misrepresented in the press and by politicians to further their own agendas. We constantly are told that the PLCAA means gun makers cannot be sued. This is not the truth. Yet it is what the public is being told, virtually every time the subject is mentioned.

lacking the truth, people will believe the lie...

Newsom is just repeating his version of the lie, to pander to his gun control supporters and to the ignorant and under educated public who doesn't know any better.

He's blaming gun makers for the criminal acts of others who misuse a legal product. If there's a single word about actually catching those criminals and putting them in prison for good, I haven't seen it.

Might as well hold farmers responsible for mass shootings, I'm pretty sure everyone who pulled a trigger ate FOOD.....

Or hold the Catholic church (or whatever faith you hold) responsible for a tree falling on your car, it was, after all, an act of God....

Point here is that all the public is being offered is the anti's point of view, and their claim that it will be the solution to "gun violence" (which is their made up BS term anyway) and to date, NONE of their "solutions" has worked. Some have had just the opposite effect.
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Old April 6, 2022, 03:17 PM   #15
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Update from today's news, two of the people arrested in connection with the Sacramento shooting are prohibited persons with multiple felony and DV convictions legally barring them from possessing firearms.

I fully expect anyone else they arrest for the shooting will be in the same legal grouping.

Despite this being a constant theme when they arrest people in connection with "gun violence" (convicted felons, often on parole, etc) the mantra being pushed on the public is NOT getting criminals off the streets its about gun control and lately "punishing" gun makers.

I can understand how people so out of touch with reality get into office, (fool me once...etc.,) what I can't get is how they remain and retain being in office.
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Old April 6, 2022, 03:51 PM   #16
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Pretty simple. The average voting citizen is ignorant - by design of the agenda-driven mass media they subject themselves to.
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Old April 10, 2022, 01:54 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by eflyguy View Post
Pretty simple. The average voting citizen is ignorant - by design of the agenda-driven mass media they subject themselves to.
^THIS!^
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Old April 10, 2022, 05:34 PM   #18
mehavey
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Justice Department statistics show that nearly 24,000 ghost guns were
recovered by law enforcement at crime scenes and reported to the
government from 2016 to 2020.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...ghost-gun-rule

I'm having a very difficult time believing that statement.
Anyone have any corroborating sources... one way or other ?

.
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Old April 10, 2022, 08:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Justice Department statistics show that nearly 24,000 ghost guns were
recovered by law enforcement at crime scenes and reported to the
government from 2016 to 2020.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...ghost-gun-rule

I'm having a very difficult time believing that statement.
Anyone have any corroborating sources... one way or other ?
I don't have any statistics, and I wouldn't know where to look for them. But let's look at it:

2016 to 2020 -- I'm going to take that as including five years of statistics. So 24,000 / 5 = 4,800 per year.

If we include Washington, DC, as a "state, we have 51 state-level jurisdictions. 4,800 / 51 ==> 94 "ghost" guns per state, per year. That's less than 2 per week per state. That's conceivable, IMHO. It's also hardly the tsunami the anti-gun folks are making it out to be.
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Old April 11, 2022, 12:53 AM   #20
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They lack serial numbers, which can allow law enforcement agencies to track them and enforce background checks. And they are essentially available in plastic, which can bypass metal detectors.
Saw this from NBC News (web)...next thing you know, they'll be telling us about exploding pickup trucks....
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Old April 12, 2022, 05:07 AM   #21
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So how are "Ghost" guns a significant problem or is it an issue of them not having a serial number and not subject to a registry?
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Old April 12, 2022, 06:19 AM   #22
mehavey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATN...
So how are "Ghost" guns a significant problem ...?
IMHO, it's not that lack of serial numbers are that much a law-enforcement problem, as
much as they are easier to attack than the root problem -- an exploding criminal element
within the current social construct

Like gov't-issue crypto currency, however, such numbers + ATF digitization of records make
for easy tracking of all information across the board.

.

Last edited by mehavey; April 12, 2022 at 08:11 AM.
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Old April 12, 2022, 08:06 AM   #23
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Quote:
Justice Department statistics show that nearly 24,000 ghost guns were
recovered by law enforcement at crime scenes and reported to the
government from 2016 to 2020.
As a point of reference to show how this is just a drop in the bucket, Chicago police regularly confiscate over 5,000 guns every 6 months:
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...-2021/2544629/

Funny thing is, with over 5,000 "illegal" guns, shouldn't there be about 5,000-ish prosecutions every 6 months? That would be serious jail time for the bad guys. Wouldn't that about clear the streets after a couple years? More proof the people in charge aren't serious about crime and protecting their citizens.
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Old April 12, 2022, 02:23 PM   #24
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So how are "Ghost" guns a significant problem or is it an issue of them not having a serial number and not subject to a registry?
The "significant problem" is things being reported like this....

Quote:
They lack serial numbers, which can allow law enforcement agencies to track them and enforce background checks. And they are essentially available in plastic, which can bypass metal detectors.
Once again, the press, and many politicians, (and as usual gun control groups) are MISREPRESENTING THE TRUTH to get support for their agenda.

One of the biggest distortions is the complete failure to mention that the things they say are the problem with "ghost guns" are already covered under existing law and have been criminal offenses since 1968, if not earlier.

First, lets debunk the "they lack serial #s and so cops can't trace them..' thing.

Prior to 1968 serial numbers were not legally required on ANY firearm. Since the later 1800s many guns did have serial#s, put there by the makers, because they wanted to. NOT because of any law. And while virtually all "quality" guns had them, a large number of "budget" .22s and shotguns did not. I"ve owned a couple of these over the years, and they are covered and grandfathered legal by the 1968 law.

The GCA 68 required all guns made/imported into the US after 68 to have serial numbers. And, it requires serial # on all guns sold unless they are pre-1968 and grandfathered.

Now, lets look at "ghost guns" with no serial number. The law (Fed) has always allowed individuals to make their own guns, for their own use. And did not require serial numbers or registry with the Federal govt, provided they remained the property of the maker.

The law also allowed the masker to sell a gun he made, when he got tired of it. HOWEVER, when put on the market, the gun had to have a serial number added to it, and comply with all other Federal requirements or it was a CRIME!

Making guns for yourself and selling one or two once in a while was ok. Making guns with the intent of selling them, without a valid FFL is also a CRIME.

SO, someone making guns from kits (and just FYI, the parts kits do not contain ALL the needed parts) and selling it to gangbangers (knowingly selling to prohibited persons) is breaking at least three (3) federal laws right there. Laws that have existed for over half a century.

Next point: "no serial # means untraceable"...
No. It just means more difficult to trace. It means the cops cannot sit at a desk and access a computer data base, or even go to where paper records are kept and search them, but must use field work investigation the same way they have to use it to find out where the (non-serial numbered) illegal drugs come from. Or anything else in our world that might turn up in an investigation that does not (and never did) have serial numbers.

Consider what a gun trace gets the cops, anyway...They recover a gun at a crime scene...they've got the serial number (if it hasn't been defaced or removed (which is a separate crime in, and of itself) so they can go to the maker/importer records, find out what dealer that gun was shipped to. Then they can go to that dealer and with their records find out who LEGALLY bought the gun. At that point, the trail pretty much goes cold.

They can go to the last legal owner for which there is a record, but no further, via a record search. Now, IF the last legal owner (of record) is a suspect then MAYBE they've got something.

What do they have when the last legal owner legally sold the gun years or decades before and has no records of who bought it, because the law did not require such records be kept by private citizens? They have nothing connecting that former owner with the current crime investigation.

Same for guns that are stolen. They can trace the gun up to the point it was reported stolen, which also might be years and years ago, but beyond that, nothing. that's all a serial number on a gun allows them to do. Trace it up to the end of the paper trail, but that trail might end years before they recover the gun from a crime scene.

Next point,

Quote:
They lack serial numbers, which can allow law enforcement agencies to track them and enforce background checks.
This is a BS statement in several ways. The main one is that the Fed background check does NOT check firearms. It checks PEOPLE. And the serial# of the gun is NOT INVOLVED in that. "Long gun" or "handgun" is included, so the check can cover the age restrictions for purchase but individual gun serial #s are not.

SO, what we have here is the press claiming that the lack of a serial# prevents the cops from doing something that they cannot do anyway, even if they have the serial number. It is, in simplest terms, a lie.

And finally, even if the gun is "mostly plastic" it has more than enough metal to set off a metal detector, and even if it didn't the ammuntion DOES.

I'm sure the police are finding these "ghost guns" at crime scenes in ever increasing numbers, various folks on the internet have been educating the public (including the criminal public) about them for years, and lately the press has taken over and expanded that function. Teach people exactly how to break the law, and how easy it is, and gosh, you know, some people WILL do that!

What we have here is a "crisis" created by disinformation, in order to allow the govt to expand the rules and restrictions in order to "do something" about what has been a crime for decades under already existing laws.

The danger here is that, depending on how they write, and interpret new rules and regulations, previously law abiding citizens could find themselves in violation without even realizing it, because they had some spare gun parts in their possession. All it takes is a over broadly written regulation and an ignorant jury swallowing the prosecutor's BS whole. it's happened before, so, its possible it can happen again.
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