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Old March 12, 2022, 11:52 AM   #1
Aguila Blanca
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I just read about a bill I can support

https://freebeacon.com/biden-adminis...an-gun-owners/

According to this article, Rep. Michael Cloud (R., Texas) has proposed a bill that would allow FFLs to destroy their records. This would short-circuit the BATFE's stockpiling of records on gun sales (and gun owners). Existing law says the government can't create a database of gun owners, but the BATFE has been stockpiling paper records for years. I suppose their argument is that boxes of paper aren't a "database" until someone starts keying the data into a central file.

The Biden administration wants to change the existing law to require FFLs to keep their records indefinitely. This proposed law is a counter to that.

Quote:
Cloud's bill is a direct response to the Biden administration's proposed plan to mandate that firearm dealers keep their records in perpetuity and provide them to the federal government. The bill would not only force the ATF to delete all of its existing firearm transactions records, but also allow licensed gun dealers to destroy their records when they go out of business, effectively stopping the federal government from adding to its database—which critics like Cloud and gun rights advocates have long seen as a blatant bid to track American gun owners in violation of the law.

The bill has 40 cosponsors, with more expected in the coming days.

Currently, when a licensed gun dealer goes out of business, their records for the last 20 years are transferred to the ATF and entered into its database. The Biden administration wants to change the law so that gun stores must keep these records in perpetuity, meaning that when a store closes, the government gets all their sales records.
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Old March 12, 2022, 12:09 PM   #2
Jim Watson
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I fear this is another one of those "fundraiser" bills, relaxing gun law in a Democrat administration is most unlikely.
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Old March 12, 2022, 02:01 PM   #3
BarryLee
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While I agree with Jim to a certain extent sometimes these Bills take several trys to get them passed. So, now is as good a time as any to get started. I wonder would the old ACLU support the capturing of all this data? It seems now they are less about Freedom and more about Shilling for one particular party.
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Old March 12, 2022, 03:30 PM   #4
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson
I fear this is another one of those "fundraiser" bills, relaxing gun law in a Democrat administration is most unlikely.
While I agree, that's not a reason not to support the bill. Especially when the bill is intended as a counterpoint to a proposal to do the opposite -- INCREASE the scope of the [illegal] BATFE database.

That's all in the article.
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Old March 12, 2022, 05:42 PM   #5
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While I support the idea, unless there are some real "teeth" in the bill (and by that I mean actual punishment for individuals not just the agency in general WHEN they violate the law) even if passed and signed into law, I'm afraid it will be just one more law that the govt, pays lip service to observing but violates in practice.

Look what the FBI did with background check records a while back. Despite a LAW requiring those records to be destroyed shortly after the check is complete, the FBI was keeping them, for at least 6 months, and got taken to court over that.

I don't remember how it turned out, but the point is, a Federal agency was intentionally violating the law. Don't think it can't happen again...

Also seems to me that for a long time there was a rule stating that while the ATF got the paper records from out of business dealers, they were forbidden to enter them into a computer database. Seems like that got changed, without most of us knowing it was...

One thing that worries me is that, once information is in a computer database, it can be copied, transferred, and "stashed" in some other place under a coded title, so that even if they comply with removing the records from the "official" database, they might still retain the information, which violates the spirit of the law, if not the letter.

Because, if there ever is a confiscation of firearms (or just certain one ...to start with...) the last tactic they want to use is house to house searches, its much better for them to be able to have a list of the people who bought them, and go there, first.

You may consider this paranoid and extreme, but when one of the politicians let slip, in public, "Hell yes, we going to take your...." I no longer rule anything out completely.
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Old March 12, 2022, 06:46 PM   #6
Doc Intrepid
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+1

I stated facetiously in another thread "When was the last time you read about BATF doing a huge Tobacco raid? They've morphed from Alcohol & Tobacco to become predominantly the Federal Firearms Police." Anyone who has heard of any recent tobacco or alcohol task forces executing big raids please feel free to correct me.

Regardless of the outcome of this bill, if its ever passed, I will bet anyone a steak dinner that that BATF database containing some 920+ million Form 4473 records is NEVER destroyed. Even if Congress passes a bill calling for the BATF to divest itself of these records, they can be classified and put into a backup file for future reference, and technically the BATF could be in compliance with Congressional guidance without actually *destroying* the database.

This is the same agency that claims their database does not actually constitute a national firearms registry due to the fact that it omits certain facts from certain records. Along with being disingenuous, the fact is that the omitted data still exists. The building blocks of a federal firearms registry are all in place. It can be assembled at will.

https://www.ammoland.com/2022/01/atf...#axzz7NMoRMXrJ

Ronald Reagan said: "a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!" This one is no different - and storing databases for all time is one thing they're good at.

Along with 44 AMP, I no longer rule anything out completely.
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