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Old September 29, 2021, 09:51 PM   #1
KansasTrapper77
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Quigley Rifle Match: Rifle Advice.

I am interested in attending the Quigley Match and similar long range black powder shoots.

My family has 1000 yard range on the farm and we have flung plenty of lead downrange mostly with optics but irons with a .303 Enfield in good condition. It is quite a bit of fun.

I am on a tighter budget and have been watching online and local auctions but no luck.

Walked into Cabela's Gun Room today and they have a Taylors & Company 1885 Highwall in 45-70 30" Oct. with set trigger and crescent stock. ($1050) AND a Rolling Block in 45-70 30" Oct. with shotgun stock and creedmoor style sights. ($1400)

I already reload 45-70 for a Marlin lever gun. I think for comfort I would want to fit a straight stock on the Highwall and would have to purchase and install Creedmoor style sights for it which I know can be pricey. But is the strength of the highwall enough of an advantage to justify this?

Would either of these be worth the investment for these style of competitions?

I appreciate the feedback. New to the idea of buffalo gun shoots, in a perfect world I'd wait till I could afford a Shiloh Sharps but man they are steep.
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Old September 29, 2021, 10:40 PM   #2
Jim Watson
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What counts is the actual maker.
Pedersoli has the best reputation of Italian single shots.

The Rolling Block is perfectly adequate for any black powder load you could put in it and a lot of moderate smokeless.

I shoot a Winchester 1885 Single Shot and a Miroku Browning "Highwall".
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Old September 29, 2021, 10:48 PM   #3
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With smokeless powders is a replica rolling block in 45-70 trapdoor strong or Marlin lever gun strong?
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Old September 29, 2021, 11:10 PM   #4
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Somewhere in between, but closer to Trapdoor.
The Rolling Block is a strong BLACK POWDER action and will hold a good deal of smokeless. Remington No 5 was made in many turn of the century smokeless calibers, .30-30, .30-40, 7mm Mauser and 8mm Lebel that I can think of offhand.
But it is not as strong as a Winchester or "modern material" Sharps.

I think the best value in the field is the C. Sharps 1875 the "box lock" that Sharps never put into production after prototyping.
http://csharpsarms.com/catalog-detai...ing-Rifle.html
But you have to control yourself in the option list, just good sights.
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Old September 30, 2021, 07:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Taylors & Company 1885 Highwall in 45-70
Made by Uberti? Nothing a bit wrong w/ that -- especially at that price.
And as a falling block, it's as strong as anything out there save for a Ruger #1.
Curved butt plate? Slip a leather cover on it w/ a foam insert in the middle and walk away.

Put an MVA Soule on it and you've got everything you need.
(Any of the "fancy" Pedersoli sights that might come OEM on their stock rifles gets replaced, at least by me, anyway.)
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Old September 30, 2021, 08:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
With smokeless powders is a replica rolling block in 45-70 trapdoor strong or Marlin lever gun strong?
There is a little confusion of terms there. A rolling block action and a trapdoor action are different. There is no rolling block in a 45-70 Trapdoor.
Perhaps you meant is a replica rolling block or a 45-70 Trapdoor strong enough to be used with smokeless propellants. The answer to that is Yes if one keeps the chamber pressures below 20kpsi.
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Old September 30, 2021, 08:43 AM   #7
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What I should clarify is I was simply curious what strength category the rolling block falls into. Because your average smokeless reloading manual has 3 sections for 45-70. Trapdoor, Strong Action (Marlin lever gun), and Ruger No. 1. And I assumed it wouldn’t be Ruger No. 1 strong but I was curious for safety sake if I would have to be careful about segregating my 45-70 loads. Because I do have some hot 45-70 for a Marlin guide gun.
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Old September 30, 2021, 09:23 AM   #8
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Jim Watson is correct. It is closer to a Trapdoor in strength and NOT as strong as a Marlin lever gun. If in doubt, contact the manufacturer. There are always people on web forums giving opinions rather than facts. Don’t injure yourself listening to random opinions, call the company and ask. Just because someone hasn’t blown their own gun up…yet, doesn’t mean it’s as strong as they think it is. Be safe, not sorry.
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Old September 30, 2021, 09:34 AM   #9
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I’m starting to lean towards the Uberti Highwall. I know it’s probably a little historically inaccurate to use it at the Buffalo Rifle matches but I am fan of overbuilt rifles and like the idea of being able to fire smokeless out of it just for ease of use. Not worrying if I accidentally slip a lever gun load in it at maiming myself. When true black powder is hard to get ahold of in my area. And with Hodgdon shutting down their plant.
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Old September 30, 2021, 03:16 PM   #10
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Either rifle you're looking at in your opening post is a good one (IMO). If they're both Pedersoli guns, even better (one less thing to consider). If you purchase sights, like the Hi-wall doesn't have, take the time to save the $$ if you need to, but don't scrimp on the sights (again, IMO). If you find you really like the long range game, you'll no doubt end up buying the good sights down the road anyway. MVA makes fine ones, Steve Baldwin make fine ones (what I use; I like the thicker staff with the bigger numbers for my eyes), too. The long range soule sight is very popular. My Steve Baldwin front sight has a level built in the hooded section, and I believe MVA makes that kind, too. You really do need a sight level for serious long range shooting. The 45/70 is wonderfully adequate for the Quigley, too. I own two Shilohs, and an original rolling block. I shoot black powder only in all of them, and find them all wonderfully accurate. Hope you find one you like. It's a great part of the shooting sports to participate in.

BTW, I started going to the "Q" back in '01, and only missed 3 since my first. Lots of waiting between relays, but lots of good stuff to look at and buy if you need between targets. It's an international event, certain sure, and nothing like it anywhere else West of the Mississippi...maybe even farther East.
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Old September 30, 2021, 07:47 PM   #11
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BTW: Don't go crazy on getting the longest-range sight ladder they make.

(Nominally/45-70)
~150-MOA elevation off 100yd zero wiil drop a 400gr/1,330fps bullet into the bull at 1,000yds
~163-MOA if starting at 1,230fps

(you get the picture)
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Old September 30, 2021, 08:22 PM   #12
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Ok once again just to clarify for the stupid kids in the back (me). An Uberti 1885 Highwall is ok to use smokeless powder, correct? Nowhere on the rifle does it say “Black Powder Only” and I can’t find any warnings in the manuals online. I’ll call Uberti tomorrow. But I want to be 100% for I go out and spend that kinda money.
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Old September 30, 2021, 08:23 PM   #13
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Thanks for the tip Mehavey.
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Old September 30, 2021, 09:08 PM   #14
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See https://www.uberti-usa.com/sites/def...ingle_shot.pdf
Commercially-loaded 45-70 (i.e., smokeless/SAAMI 28,000 CUP or PSI)
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/206.pdf
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Old October 1, 2021, 11:44 AM   #15
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Yup, that is all the manufacturers will say, tested for use with SAAMI or CIP ammunition.
Some of the calibers other than .45-70 are marked "black powder only" because they are old and obscure and not specified in the literature.

Kirk Bryan at Shiloh once said his rifles would shoot "Ruger only" loads but recommended you back off a bit and make up the velocity with the typical long Sharps barrel.
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Old October 1, 2021, 12:53 PM   #16
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The crescent butt plate goes against your upper arm just below the shoulder. As was said do not scrimp on sights. The cheaper vernier sights are not windage adjustable.
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Old October 1, 2021, 01:57 PM   #17
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Hard to get that Kaintuck hold when prone over buffalo sticks.
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Old October 2, 2021, 08:11 AM   #18
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Well I did it, went for Uberti 1885 Highwall. Took all the furniture off to see if there was any rust or dirt collected, It was spotless. I found the manufacture year, 2020. Need to find some tang sights that will take me out to 1000 yards. I’m also considering slugging the barrel so I can determine the true diameter. Try to squeeze all the accuracy I can out of it. But I’ll have to hop on the YouTube machine and learn how to slug a barrel.

Thanks for all the comments guys. Young guy like me I’m pretty much flying blind and can use all the shared experience offered to me.
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Old October 2, 2021, 08:19 AM   #19
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Have fun, KT77! Buffalo Arms is a good place to surf for your needed possibles. Good idea to slug the bore, too.

www.buffaloarms.com
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Old October 2, 2021, 08:54 AM   #20
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Tang sights are expensive. Good tang sights are quite expensive.
MVA is probably the industry leader. I use Baldwin and have seen a number of Kelleys.
The Lee Shaver sights are good but I don't think I did well to start out with his "economy" tang sight.

Then you need a globe front sight, preferably one with a spirit level.
I'd get a Soule windage tang and not a wind gauge front.

Shooting long range on the south 40 can be a challenge. How do you know where you hit? A target camera is the only thing I know of that will work.
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Old October 2, 2021, 09:44 PM   #21
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I'll be honest I'm torn whether to go for the MVAs or settle for the Lee Shavers because I won't dare enter any competition until I've shot quite a bit.
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Old October 3, 2021, 12:18 AM   #22
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Well, congratulations on buying that rifle. I was just looking at that rifle yesterday. I was considering buying for deer season this year. I have a Sharps with the 34" barrel and wanted a rolling block or sharps with a 30" barrel. I believe that it will balance better when shooting off hand vs my Sharps that is forward heavy. You are going to love shooting that rifle.
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Old October 4, 2021, 08:45 AM   #23
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Old October 5, 2021, 12:20 PM   #24
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Ok I’m back for more dumb questions. And I’m not sure if I should start another post or not so I’ll try here first.

Cast Bullets for BPRC. I understand that softer alloys or even pure lead is used in muzzleloaders for aid in loading of the firearm as well as expanding to fit the rifling and capture gases which aid in propulsion and reduce lead fouling. I also understand that cast bullets have lube grooves which are filled with BP safe lubes. Now. I don’t have the ability to cast my own and probably won’t for some time and I’m coming up short online at finding soft cast bullets or any at a reasonable price. So, my question is. Can I use hard cast bullets of 1 Thousands over bore with black powder lube in a metallic cartridge gun. A local place carries Cast Bullets .459 405gr RNFP without lube in the grooves. Will my accuracy suffer greatly or terrible lead fouling or what. Just kinda want to hear some opinions. I’ve been scouring the web and forums but nobody quite has the same question.

Thanks.
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Old October 5, 2021, 06:15 PM   #25
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Try here:
https://www.buffaloarms.com/448-540-...ll-448540.html
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