Will your deer rifle help you in a pinch in case a bear attacks you?

[Pathfinder45]

Furthermore, they did it all without laser-range-finders, GPS, cellphones, etc. Their rifles had wooden stocks and leather slings that they somehow used to steady their rifles, rather than using spring-loaded bipod contraptions that so many are reliant upon today.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by HiBC

Something to consider about Elmer's observations and preferences: We live in a different time.
Not so long ago the 9mm was scoffed at for being ineffective. Bullet technology has evolved, and the 9mm has gained effectiveness.

Bullets of Elmer's time were either cast or they were less sophisticated cup and core jacketed.

Whether justly or not,the reputation of a cartridge was often based on how well a particular factory loaded bullet performed.

In Elmers time, too high velocity might mean bullet failure. I can understand the idea of 33 cal or larger, heavier bullets at 2000 to 2400 + fps being reliable because they were well within the window of reliability for bullets of the day.

Some folks were using optics for hunting,generally in the 2x to 4 x range,but most folks were using iron sights. Ranges tended to be more moderate.

Some folks bash people like Elmer or Jeff Cooper or PO Ackley.

"Hell,they were there!" I respect their contributions.

Keep in mind that Elmer was NOT an advocate of big and slow. He was an advocate of Big and very Fast. He constantly chased velocity. He chased it with big bullets. Jack O. Chased it with small bullets.
I remember the .25-35 story differently. It was the greatest Elk cartridge of all time because it was the only cartridge he had killed an Elk with. It was a joke. Elmer said repeatedly the .30 was too small for Elk and the .33 or 8mm was the minimum. He developed the .338-378 for an Elk cartridge.

[Paul B.]

My only regret is I Never got to met Mr. Keith or Mr. O'Connor. It would have been informative, I'm sure.
Paul B.

[HiBC]

My former spouse had a friend we were visiting in Salmon. Elmer came up in conversation. Turns out she was an old friend of Elmers. She picked up the phone and shortly after I was sitting in Elmer's Man Cave/trophy room drinking coffee.
One of the treasures in my mind. I'm grateful.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by HiBC

My former spouse had a friend we were visiting in Salmon. Elmer came up in conversation. Turns out she was an old friend of Elmers. She picked up the phone and shortly after I was sitting in Elmer's Man Cave/trophy room drinking coffee.
One of the treasures in my mind. I'm grateful.

Would loved to have been there.

[thallub]

Come on grizzly bear:

[Hawg]

Watch some videos of grizzly bears running. They can run up to 40 MPH and their head bobs up and down. The volume of a bears brain is about a pint. The volume of skull is about 2 1/2 gallons surrounded by thick fur and muscle. You can kill a grizzly with a .22 fired from the side but a charging grizzly isn't going to give you that shot. A grizzly bears chest has about 10 inches of fat with thick muscle and bone. Good luck with your .45 ACP.

[Scorch]

My former spouse had a friend we were visiting in Salmon. Elmer came up in conversation. Turns out she was an old friend of Elmers. She picked up the phone and shortly after I was sitting in Elmer's Man Cave/trophy room drinking coffee.

Sounds like when I met Peter Capstick. My grandmothe and I were at the bank in Naples, FL, and he came up to say hello to her. Turns out they were acquaintances, and after I was introduced to him he invited me to a party at his place a few days later. Amazing!

Come on grizzly bear:

Apparently someone has never read the Lewis and Clark journals. Clark killed his first grizzly with one shot and thought "so what's the big deal?", but he changed his mind after he killed a few more. The Corps of Exploration men used to run relays shooting grizzlies and letting them chase them past other shooters. One they killed took about 20 shots. Mostly because it was agitated. Clark had to jump in the Missouri River to get away from one that was after him. Towards the end of their trip, he said he would rather fight a dozen Indian warriors than one grizzly.

You can kill a grizzly with a .22 fired from the side but a charging grizzly isn't going to give you that shot.

Friend of mine used to tell me about Alaska Natives that kill grizzly and polar bears with a 22 Hornet when the bears stood and ate. It will lay them out if you have a standing shot, but it's not a stopping rifle.

A grizzly bears chest has about 10 inches of fat with thick muscle and bone

If you search on the internet, you can find Larry Kelly's story of shooting a grizzly in Alaska that tried to join him and his guide in a trappers shelter. Larry Kelly is the founder of Magnaport and hunts all over the world with a 44 Mag revolver.