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Old January 2, 2019, 11:21 PM   #51
dannyb
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My biggest complaint about the Glock was the slide release and having to hold back the slide while pulling down the release and then letting go. Then I read about expanded slide releases and installed one on my Gen 2 17. Things got much better. I still prefer a takedown system that doesn't require holding things down, punches, or similar obstacles to somebody with a few extra years and arthritis, but this is now at least reasonable for me and gets range time as a result. I would still not recommend this make for people with arthritic hands and decreased hand strength.
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Old January 3, 2019, 07:22 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Targa View Post
I have only owned one Glock and their really wasn’t a thing I disliked about that gun, it just did everything well. I did get rid of it due to it being a double stack and just a bit to wide for me to IWB carry, this was before the G43. I am toying with the idea of replacing my S&W 642 with the 43.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW0bLKYHJb0

Might look at this..Glock 43x
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Old January 3, 2019, 08:25 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Centuriator View Post
"My biggest complaint about the Glock was the slide release and having to hold back the slide while pulling down the release and then letting go."

Sorry, could you explain what you are talking about?
Same..the 4 glocks I regularly shoot..42/43/17/19...I can release the slide on all of them with my RH thumb, easily, even tho it's a poorly repaired, dislocated thumb(thanks USN docs)..
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Old January 3, 2019, 10:45 AM   #54
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The lack of an external safety option and the grip angle kill Glocks for me, and the standard sights are a joke. I still think they're really good striker fired handguns, they just aren't my cup of tea.
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Old January 3, 2019, 11:14 AM   #55
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I always preface my opinion on Glocks with "I'm in the minority here and you shouldn't listen to me, but..."

I hate the damn things.

They are perfectly fine guns, and they sure do work. Aftermarket parts are readily available, and they come in a wide range of sizing and caliber options.

All that said, I can't shoot them worth a damn. The grip and trigger just kill me. I'd trust my life on a glock, sure. But I dont enjoy shooting them one bit.
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Old January 3, 2019, 11:28 AM   #56
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Glock not as perfect as it is made out to be.

After reading the first post that was closed for whatever reason (I don't know), I can only say this. Glock makes an excellent hand gun which is much appreciated around the world. But before we project it to the gold medal stand in shooting history lets consider the original style luger 9MM, the navy colt 45, the Browing 1911's, and the 9mm german machine guns that fought in world war I and world war II. Certainly there is something to be said about these weapons. With no disrespect to the previous (closed) post about the Glock being the ONLY pistol to use in battle I must disagree. His narration sounds a little suspect to me because most folks that actually witnessed or were in close quarters defense of our nation do not discuss it publicly. They did their job in the military and come home to live a different life than the combat missions they were in. My gut reaction is he could be named "walking eagle". Old indian name for bird so full of sh** it can't fly, only walks. Just my two cents. I own and shoot, Rugers, Taurus, and Berretas and I love them all and I carry concealed 24/7. I also know friends who have failures with new Glocks out of the box as well as all the others.
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Old January 3, 2019, 11:52 AM   #57
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A $600 gun shouldn’t have delicate plastic sights. Everything else is just about perfect
My 2nd Gen Glock 17 came with Trijicon sights. As I recall, I thought I purchased it new and these were an option???
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Old January 3, 2019, 12:50 PM   #58
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I am a late convert. I never really liked them until I was retiring and spent the day at the range with the Glock LE rep.

I have a gen 2.5 31C that I bought used and have carried about every day for the last 8 years. I also shoot it in IDPA. I have an aftermarket 9mm barrel, and a factory ported 40 barrel.

I was not real happy with the way it fit my hand so I made it fit. Grip re-contour/stipple and built on a beaver tail. Changed the sights, and added a Ghost 3.0 connector, and a Vickers slide lock.

I am happy with the no external safety after decades of carrying revolvers and DAO semi's on duty.

I shoot it so much better than my H&K USP/c and on par with my 1911's and Smith revolvers. Best thing they are cheap.... I picked up a Police trade in G22 for $299 as a spare.
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Old January 3, 2019, 05:46 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centuriator View Post
"My biggest complaint about the Glock was the slide release and having to hold back the slide while pulling down the release and then letting go."

Sorry, could you explain what you are talking about?
Pretty sure he's talking about the hand gymnastics required for slide removal. In this video takedown starts at about :25 and runs to about 1:00:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlT5jntbohA

Now for myself this isn't terribly difficult, but I can see how arthritis or some similar hand issue could make this operation harder.

One of the lesser reasons I've switched to M&Ps is that there's no hand gymnastics at all, plus no pulling the trigger during disassembly.
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Old January 3, 2019, 05:54 PM   #60
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Holding the pistol as shown in the video with the thumb under the frame tang and fingers wrapped over the slide does make it easier to retract the slide slightly while keeping a hand free to pull down on the take-down lever.

But the lever is still small. Installing an extended take-down lever helps. These have slightly wider wings to grab onto but not long enough to snag or interfere with grip.

Plus they make the Glock more perfecter.
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Old January 3, 2019, 10:42 PM   #61
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I shot a GLOCK once.
I didn't like it.
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Old January 3, 2019, 10:53 PM   #62
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I was forced to carry a Glock. A 35 and a 22. Mechanically they are very good guns. I shoot them well enough. They are tough and reliable.

If you can get past the fact that they are cocked and unlocked pistols, they are good carry guns.

After I retired and I can choose what to carry, I will never carry a Glock again.
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Old January 3, 2019, 11:37 PM   #63
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If you can get past the fact that they are cocked and unlocked pistols, they are good carry guns.
Well, they may be 'unlocked', if one's personal definition of 'unlocked' is: "not equipped with a manual safety", but they are only partially cocked unless the trigger is pulled.
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Old January 4, 2019, 01:20 AM   #64
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A $600 gun shouldn’t have delicate plastic sights. Everything else is just about perfect
I am confused............ohhhh you mean the dovetail protectors..........those are supposed to be sights?????

Love them, hate them or are indifferent to them. If you are intellectually honest and have any firearms experience, you must give them credit as a damn good, well designed pure combat pistol. They may not be for you, they may not be for me and they damn sure aren’t “perfection” but they are a damn good gun even if you need life sized LEGO minifig hands to hold them.

They are not fully cocked pistols. They are closer to DAO with a short trigger travel. I, myself, prefer a longer, heavier first pull (DA/SA guy) but Glocks are not single actions.
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Old January 4, 2019, 02:23 AM   #65
Sgt127
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Originally Posted by JohnKSa View Post
Well, they may be 'unlocked', if one's personal definition of 'unlocked' is: "not equipped with a manual safety", but they are only partially cocked unless the trigger is pulled.

Except, there is enough stored energy to fire. I took the firing pin safety out, put an inspection plate on the back, loaded a primed 9mm and pushed down the cruciform with a punch. It fired.

Same with a Kahr. The S&W MP is fully cocked. Most striker fired guns with the striker “partially back” will fire.

Gaston Glock was a genius. Both mechanically and marketing. He convinced everyone that it was a good idea to carry around a pistol with a 5.5 pound trigger, a short pull and, no manual safety.

Yes, they are easy to shoot. An off switch on a gun has become the worst thing ever. Yet a series 80 Govt Model, with a firing pin block, a grip safety and a thumb safety is considered dangerous because you can see the cocked hammer.

The only difference with a striker fired gun is you can’t see the “hammer”.

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Old January 4, 2019, 02:36 AM   #66
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Except, there is enough stored energy to fire. I took the firing pin safety out, put an inspection plate on the back, loaded aprined 9mm and pushed down the cruciform with a punch. It fired.
While it is possible to do a similar experiment and demonstrate that, at least some of the time a Glock striker has enough energy to fire from the partially cocked position, the method you describe is somewhat flawed.

For one thing, because of the way the safety ramp and cruciform interact, it is only possible to force the cruciform down sufficiently to release the striker by either deforming the cruciform and/or the safety ramp, or by inadvertently camming the cruciform backward so that the safety ramp does not block it.

The former is potentially damaging to the gun and could also create a dangerous situation by disabling one of the passive safeties. The latter doesn't test what it is intended to test because camming the cruciform backward adds energy to the striker compared to what is present in the partially cocked, trigger forward, position.

In fact, if the primed case DOES fire from this experiment, that is solid proof that the cruciform (and therefore the entire trigger bar) was pulled backwards inadvertently. We know this is true because unless that happens (unless the trigger bar is moved backwards), the firing pin safety will not be deactivated and it will block the striker, preventing it from reaching the primer.

A better method for performing the test is to carefully measure the position of the striker lug with the trigger in the forward position (the partially cocked position), and then replicate that position with a slide/barrel combination off the gun. Then the striker can be released from that position. This makes damaging the cruciform or safety ramp impossible and makes it very easy to see if the striker is being inadvertently pulled back farther than intended.

Aside from the potential safety issues (wear safety equipment--there is still substantial energy released by the primer), there is still one tiny fly in the ointment when performing this second version of the test. That is the fact that the firing pin safety must be removed to allow the striker to move forward freely. That changes the system by removing some of the friction on the striker that would normally be present. My gut feel is that is a small effect and probably not significant.

Here's a post I made awhile back after doing the test described above.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...4&postcount=23
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Old January 4, 2019, 02:57 AM   #67
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Thanks. I agree. I used an old trigger housing and replaced it after the test. I’m pretty sure I bent it down some.

With the Kahr I actually marked where the striker rested at The “cocked” position. Took the slide off, removed the firing pin safety and Used a wire to draw the striker back. The cut the wire. And, it fired.

An M&P is literally a trap door that releases the striker.
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Old January 4, 2019, 07:58 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt127 View Post
I was forced to carry a Glock. A 35 and a 22. Mechanically they are very good guns. I shoot them well enough. They are tough and reliable.

If you can get past the fact that they are cocked and unlocked pistols, they are good carry guns.

After I retired and I can choose what to carry, I will never carry a Glock again.
Don't think they are 'cocked' in the sense of a hammer fired handgun..

YMMV and all that but I carry a Glock with one in the chamber everyday. I would never carry anything that had a manual safety..WTSHTF, I guess you'll remember that but I'd rather not. Striker fired guns, in a proper, trigger protected holster don't 'just go off'.
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Old January 4, 2019, 08:44 AM   #69
Skans
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Striker fired guns, in a proper, trigger protected holster don't 'just go off'.
In other words, you need a specific kind of holster that acts as an external safety to safely carry a Glock.
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Old January 4, 2019, 08:48 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Skans View Post
In other words, you need a specific kind of holster that acts as an external safety to safely carry a Glock.
What's specific about it? That you can't Mexican carry? It needs to properly cover the trigger guard like a well made holster should.

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Old January 4, 2019, 08:52 AM   #71
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Concern about Glock triggers is legitimate. It is a valid reason for not choosing a Glock as a primary carry. It's as valid a concern as many objections to da/sa triggers ("learning two different trigger pulls is hard") or single action pistols with external safeties ("I might forget to flick the safety off" or "lowering the hammer on a pistol can be dangerous", etc.).

When folks explain that Glocks are perfectly safe as long as the shooter keeps their finger off the trigger, well that's true. But as Hamlet said, "ay there's the rub".

Records from police depts. of unintended discharges over the last decade of more indicate that Glocks are more likely than other guns to fire in two particular situations: One is in holstering, where a finger or piece of clothing, etc. gets caught in the trigger as the gun is placed in a holster. The second is in disassembling the gun for cleaning when the trigger is pulled and a round is still in the chamber.

In the first case other guns can do this as well, instances have been recorded with da/sa guns. But the rate of this type of discharge is higher overall for Glocks and this is due to the trigger. The second type of discharge is particular to Glocks. Though again other guns have been fired when being disassembled but it is not as common as with Glocks due to the Glocks design.

This is not because Glocks are inherently unsafe or design flaws. It's just features that are particular to Glocks where shooters need to take special attention and training.

Handguns are built to make it easy for the trigger finger to reach the trigger...it's natural. In a fall or if someone grabs the gun to pull it away, or in trying to grab a gun that is falling, the trigger finger wants to go into the trigger guard for a stronger hold...naturally. This can cause a ud in most any type gun but in some designs it's easier than others.

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Old January 4, 2019, 09:02 AM   #72
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I've had two Glocks come apart in my hands over the years. Our agency as well as a partner agency received brand new Glocks that were defective and ultimately 'repaired', as well as had issues with duty pistols cracking in service. I swore off Glock many years ago and have sat back and watched their list of recalls grow.

There are a number of better designs with better reliability/durability at similar or less cost.

Just say'n
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Old January 4, 2019, 09:08 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by tipoc View Post
Concern about Glock triggers is legitimate. It is a valid reason for not choosing a Glock as a primary carry. It's as valid a concern as many objections to da/sa triggers ("learning two different trigger pulls is hard") or single action pistols with external safeties ("I might forget to flick the safety off" or "lowering the hammer on a pistol can be dangerous", etc.).



When folks explain that Glocks are perfectly safe as long as the shooter keeps their finger off the trigger, well that's true. But as Hamlet said, "ay there's the rub".



Records from police depts. of unintended discharges over the last decade of more indicate that Glocks are more likely than other guns to fire in two particular situations: One is in holstering, where a finger or piece of clothing, etc. gets caught in the trigger as the gun is placed in a holster. The second is in disassembling the gun for cleaning when the trigger is pulled and a round is still in the chamber.



In the first case other guns can do this as well, instances have been recorded with da/sa guns. But the rate of this type of discharge is higher overall for Glocks and this is due to the trigger. The second type of discharge is particular to Glocks. Though again other guns have been fired when being disassembled but it is not as common as with Glocks due to the Glocks design.



This is not because Glocks are inherently unsafe or design flaws. It's just features that are particular to Glocks where shooters need to take special attention and training.



Handguns are built to make it easy for the trigger finger to reach the trigger...it's natural. In a fall or if someone grabs the gun to pull it away, or in trying to grab a gun that is falling, the trigger finger wants to go into the trigger guard for a stronger hold...naturally. This can cause a ud in most any type gun but in some designs it's easier than others.



tipoc
Two points.

Where is this database that records accidents across all police departments that you have access to (and does it account for the fact that it's pretty understandable for the most issued firearm to have the most negligent discharges by number)?

Don't grab a falling pistol. I don't care what trigger system it has.

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Old January 4, 2019, 09:35 AM   #74
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoc View Post
Concern about Glock triggers is legitimate. It is a valid reason for not choosing a Glock as a primary carry. It's as valid a concern as many objections to da/sa triggers.
Some would say the trigger and design is a valid reason FOR choosing a Glock. I would...

Quote:
Records from police depts. of unintended discharges over the last decade of more indicate that Glocks are more likely than other guns to fire in two particular situations[/B]: One is in holstering, where a finger or piece of clothing, etc. gets caught in the trigger as the gun is placed in a holster. The second is in disassembling the gun for cleaning when the trigger is pulled and a round is still in the chamber.
Maybe because there are far more Glocks out there as other brands? Plus
Sounds like a bit of training is lacking..kinda the same as DA/SA triggers or failing to take the safety off. For ME, I think I'll 'live' with the trigger and no safety rather than forgetting the specifics of my EDC as the guy walks up and smacks me with that tire iron. Holstering and cleaning...hmmm..I think less important than effectiveness when ya gotta have it.
Quote:
In the first case other guns can do this as well, instances have been recorded with da/sa guns. But the rate of this type of discharge is higher overall for Glocks and this is due to the trigger.
Saw a guy pull out a 1911 and shoot himself in the leg..'trigger' or crappy skills?
Quote:
The second type of discharge is particular to Glocks. Though again other guns have been fired when being disassembled but it is not as common as with Glocks due to the Glocks design.
My goodness...can't legislate dumm-ness. Are ya cleaning it after 3-4 beers?
Quote:
This is not because Glocks are inherently unsafe or design flaws. It's just features that are particular to Glocks where shooters need to take special attention and training.
That's true of any handgun..not unique to Glock.
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Old January 4, 2019, 09:48 AM   #75
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Where is this database that records accidents across all police departments that you have access to (and does it account for the fact that it's pretty understandable for the most issued firearm to have the most negligent discharges by number)?
Figures for several major police departments regarding this have been available on the web for a number of years now. NYC, LAPD, LA Sheriffs, Chigago and others. These are searchable.

There are no figures that cover all police departments in the U.S. I did not say or imply that there were. Not all Depts. make these records public, possibly most don't.

Glocks do not uniformly have the most unintended discharges in the Depts. that report them by gun and describe the reason. I did not say that they did and there is no evidence that they do. But there is evidence that they have certain types of unintended discharges at a higher rate than other guns. The term "Glock leg" emerged from law enforcement about two decades ago to describe the prevalence of the holstering issue. The discharging when being taken down is well recorded with special care being paid to instructing folks in that issue.

I want to repeat that there is no evidence that Glocks have more unintended discharges than other guns. But they do have issues particular to them. These reasons and features are valid reasons for a person passing on Glock.

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