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Old January 11, 2019, 05:28 AM   #76
Cosmodragoon
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At any rate, you make a good point about the historic need and significance, but back to my point: When's the last time any of us were in this situation?
It might be pretty rare but disasters do occur and some of us live in remote areas. Small towns can be cut off by major snow storms or flooding. I've been part of relief efforts that involve ATV or snowmobile supply deliveries. Those situations might not last more than a few weeks but that's in the Northeast. I've heard some harrowing real-life tales from people living out west or up in Alaska. There is a lot we tend to take for granted in the modern world.
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Old January 11, 2019, 08:49 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon
It might be pretty rare but disasters do occur and some of us live in remote areas. Small towns can be cut off by major snow storms or flooding. I've been part of relief efforts that involve ATV or snowmobile supply deliveries. Those situations might not last more than a few weeks but that's in the Northeast. I've heard some harrowing real-life tales from people living out west or up in Alaska. There is a lot we tend to take for granted in the modern world.
Agreed, but I also agree these situations are quite rare. Yet whenever this revolver/rifle combo comes up on the interweb, the general consensus is that it's a highly practical combo. Maybe everyone on the interweb lives in Alaska


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Originally Posted by Real Gun
If all my guns had to have such solid justifications, I wouldn't have near as many...I will be the judge whether I should have them.
For the record, neither I nor anyone else wrote or suggested you need justification or that anyone else is in any position to tell you what to own & shoot. If you've got a revolver/rifle combo you like, terrific. I've just pointed out that I personally haven't found much use for the combo outside the range.
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Old January 11, 2019, 01:04 PM   #78
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but back to my point: When's the last time any of us were in this situation?
In the same historical sense? Probably never..it's been a long time since pioneer days, and outside of recreational events, its very likely they aren't coming back. Machts Nichts.

There is one rifle/pistol ammo combination that is less often talked about, but a lot of people own, .22LR. People seldom carry both at the same time, though some do, but a LOT of people own a .22 rifle and a .22 pistol. Whether they team them up together, or not, one ammo supply feeds both, as a practical matter, or just for fun.
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Old January 12, 2019, 06:30 AM   #79
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For a typical shooter, tube fed mags are always easier to load, and often just as fast then a gate. Ive never seen anyone fumble loading a tube, but Ive seen highly experienced shooters with highly tuned guns fumble with a gate. Ive seen rounds get damaged and jammed in a gate as well as fair number of bloody fingers.
If you say so...on all counts.

Ease and speed of fully loading an empty rifle isn't as much of a concern as having to take it out of battery for safety...and having to partially disassemble the rifle in order to load it...with the latter being the deal breaker for me. It wouldn't be a problem on a clean range with benches and whatnot. In the field, it well could be. All of my guns are primarily weapons, and toys secondarily. The pragmatist in me looks at every potential problem point.

It's a necessity with 22s because the heel-based bullets aren't robust enough to withstand the lateral stresses of a gate...but 22s are rarely pressed into serious service.

As for the topping off without taking the rifle out of battery...or disassembling...it's a little like the ability to detail strip a true to original design 1911 without tools. It may be something that I never need (again) but it's still a nice option to have, especially if there's no downside. Unless and until you need it, you never really know it's there.
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Old January 12, 2019, 07:04 AM   #80
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My go to is a marlin 1894 .41 mag paired with the smith Wesson model 57 .41mag.
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Old January 12, 2019, 07:33 AM   #81
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There is one rifle/pistol ammo combination that is less often talked about, but a lot of people own, .22LR. People seldom carry both at the same time, though some do, but a LOT of people own a .22 rifle and a .22 pistol. Whether they team them up together, or not, one ammo supply feeds both, as a practical matter, or just for fun.
Your post has inspired me to do a little small game hunting with a pair of .22s next weekend.
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Old January 13, 2019, 02:29 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by 1911Tuner View Post
Ease and speed of fully loading an empty rifle isn't as much of a concern as having to take it out of battery for safety...
If safety is a concern, tube fed are safer.

Quote:
and having to partially disassemble the rifle in order to load it...with the latter being the deal breaker for me.
Ive never had to disassemble a tube fed lever gun to load it.

Quote:
It may be something that I never need (again) but it's still a nice option to have, especially if there's no downside.
As I listed, there are downsides to gate fed LG's.


I own a number of both styles and enjoy them both.
Buy whatever you like and enjoy it, but facts are facts.
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Old January 13, 2019, 02:41 PM   #83
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many have remarked on the "downside" of the loading gate system, and I do admit I'd had my share of pinched and bloody fingers, until I finally figured out the way to do it right. And that it to use another cartridge to push the preceding one through the gate, not to use your finger to do it.
Ive seen fellas with likely far more experience then you...me... and any ten other LG shooters combined fumble at the gate.
That is in no way an insult, the point is it happens to the best of the best, sometimes with catastrophic results.
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Old January 13, 2019, 04:01 PM   #84
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I've got decades of levergunning.
I still find the gate awkward trying to use that cartridge pusher idea, and occasionally dump rounds on the ground when they pop back out.
Denis
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Old January 13, 2019, 04:16 PM   #85
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I've got a Marlin 1894sr 44mg, made about 1970. It hasn't been shot very much and the
gate is stiff on it. It will probably break in with age but you have to follow through all the
way until cut off grabs it. If not you are going to have a jam. I have several Wins & Marlins
some 100yrs old that I have no problem loading. It's all in the loading gate spring, some of
the new levers should have foot pegs on them.
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Old January 13, 2019, 07:36 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by DPris View Post
I've got decades of levergunning.
I still find the gate awkward trying to use that cartridge pusher idea, and occasionally dump rounds on the ground when they pop back out.
Denis
Thats one of the more common malfunctions I've seen happen to people.
They hear that 'its the right way' to load an LG or that its easier.
Next thing they know they're getting pelted with cartridges flying back out.
Ive seen CAS guys notch their gates to make a ledge for the rims, but even that doesn't always work and out they come.
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Old January 13, 2019, 10:52 PM   #87
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TBM900, I'm with you on a lot of your comments regarding tube fed lever's. Never had a problem with my 39A or my Henry's in .357 and .45 Colt. I'd just add, to each our own.
If someone wants a loading gate, fine. Tube fed, fine. It's your rifle, your decision. Nothing wrong with that. Like my Henry's tho.
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Old January 13, 2019, 11:38 PM   #88
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loads

I bought my Marlin .357 lever carbine back in the early 80's. I've been all over the chart regards loads I've used in it,and the revolvers that I paired with it.

After a few years, one thing became pretty apparent, I seldom, if ever, carried both at the same time. That led to the practice of having different loads for different guns. One issue was that I enjoyed shooting the .357 revolvers with 3/4 powered ammo, lead SWC's at about 1000 fps. But that load in the carbine was a far cry from what was needed as a medium game, deer or hog gun. If the carbine was zeroed for the midrange load, I would have to rezero to take the carbine for deer, then rezero again back to the midrange plinking load to match the revolver for general shooting. And full house jacketed .357 loads in the revolver were not as pleasant to shoot, more expensive, and unnecessary plinking at stumps, rocks, paper and cans.

The solution to the issue ended up having two aspects. One was that I acquired more than one .357 revolver. I could zero one hand gun with LSWC and use it as GP shooter. I could zero another with full house JHP ammo and pair with the carbine, if ever needed, and have an all up
SD revolver when I wanted. Before the AR/ 5.56mm patrol carbine days, I even carried the carbine in my patrol rig, paired with an issue L-Frame and 125 gr JHP ammo. Outside of policy, but comforting given the dismal performance accuracy wise of slugs and limited reach of buckshot in my issued Win 1200 18" bead sighted shotgun. Thankfully, I never got in a confrontation with my unapproved lever carbine.

The second side of that story was I learned that if I zeroed the revolvers with 125 JHP ammo, that both the M27 and the Ruger B-hawk shot 148 gr .38 spl 148 gr WC's to the same point of aim. And the carbine was not that far off either, but had to be single loaded. So I had 2 revolvers, and a carbine, that with two loads on opposite ends of the power scale shot to the same point (well almost ,in the carbine's case).

Well, it was not a "one load" arrangement, but it allowed one sight setting, which solved the rezero issue. And .38 spl 148 gr WC was pretty darn anemic power wise and did not measure up as a GP load when stacked against the 158 LSWC at 1000 fps. Further, I did not see the 125 JHP as a deer load in the carbine, too much velocity and not enough slug to my way of thinking. But I was not hunting the lever carbine for deer anymore anyhow, and I had a vast supply of .38 WC, so I just let it be.

Revolvers were replaced with autos for issue handguns, the AR's hit the scene as patrol carbines. My lever carbine and its duo of .357 revolvers went back to the hobby and personal use. Eventually, I went back to 3 different loads for the 3 separate guns. Heavy JHP's in the carbine, light JHPs in the DA M27 Smith, and the Ruger B-hawk got mid range LSWC . All 3 loads identifiable at a glance.

And I kept it that way until recently, when I swapped things around again.

All that shooting and experimenting was, and still is, tremendous fun. all the more reason to blaze your own trails with a .357 combo.
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Old January 14, 2019, 08:46 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Rifletom View Post
TBM900, I'm with you on a lot of your comments regarding tube fed lever's. Never had a problem with my 39A or my Henry's in .357 and .45 Colt. I'd just add, to each our own.
If someone wants a loading gate, fine. Tube fed, fine. It's your rifle, your decision. Nothing wrong with that. Like my Henry's tho.
Agreed
I wish Henry would start offering their rifles in full stainless, I would own a lot more than I do. I tend to be hard on firearms and field them for significant time periods, so care can become time consuming, stainless buys time I don't always have.
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Old January 14, 2019, 03:49 PM   #90
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IMHO most of us "prepare" for what we will never experience, but the idea is we will be ready just in case.
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Old January 14, 2019, 04:14 PM   #91
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People are funny like that - they'll obsess over things that pose relatively little real risk (e.g. SHTF & zombie apocalypse scenarios, etc) while largely ignoring more "mundane" things that pose very real risks (obesity, high cholesterol, blood pressure, diabetes, lack of retirement savings, etc).
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Old January 14, 2019, 06:06 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by MrBorland View Post
People are funny like that - they'll obsess over things that pose relatively little real risk (e.g. SHTF & zombie apocalypse scenarios, etc) while largely ignoring more "mundane" things that pose very real risks (obesity, high cholesterol, blood pressure, diabetes, lack of retirement savings, etc).
+1000
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Old January 14, 2019, 11:41 PM   #93
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I still find the gate awkward trying to use that cartridge pusher idea, and occasionally dump rounds on the ground when they pop back out.
Sure, they're awkward, both kinds are, compared to a detachable box magazine, and people fumble those, too. My experience with Winchesters and Marlins from the early 70s on is that if you push the round in far enough, it doesn't come back out. If you don't, it will. Doing that using a another cartridge saves my fingers. Anything can be improperly done, and usually happens more often when one is in a hurry.

If you fumble with a loading gate, trying to rush to win a competition, I can see that as ground for not wanting to use a loading gate in competition, but not as grounds for claiming the loading gate is a poor idea in general. I've had times when my tube mag Winchester 190 had the inner tube pop out several inches. The why was that I was in a hurry, and didn't twist the inner tube to properly lock it in place. Anyone can fumble anything, it happens.

You don't see .22LRs with loading gates, because the rounds are not robust enough. You do see .22LRs missing inner magazine tubes. If it comes out as a separate part, some will be lost. Happens with box mags, too. They get lost. That is one thing a tube mag loading gate lever gun won't have happen. Nothing comes out or off to load, so no separate piece to get lost or damaged. Is that a game changing advantage? Not so much, but it is an advantage, as far as I can see.

Original Henry designs, with the tab that sticks our from the mag tube and moves with the follower, means as you shoot, you must shift your support hand as the tab moves past. Also means you have a (rough) cartridge counter that can be felt in the dark. Plus and minus. There's no free lunch.
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Old January 16, 2019, 10:01 PM   #94
Leaf
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"Revolver and Lever action in .357 wise choice?" I don't know how "wise" that might be in today's world but it sure can be a lot of fun.
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Old January 16, 2019, 10:15 PM   #95
TBM900
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
If you fumble with a loading gate, trying to rush to win a competition, I can see that as ground for not wanting to use a loading gate in competition, but not as grounds for claiming the loading gate is a poor idea in general.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe anyone stated that they were "a poor idea in general".

Rather that both styles have pros/cons, and that the notion of 'topping off' (under fire from hordes of pirates) is a bit far fetched fantasy at worst, and not as easy/fast (as most think) at best.

Lastly, my own statement regarding seeing people 'lawn sprinkler' rounds while doing a cartridge push was not limited to folks in competition. That example was referenced to show that it can and does happen to 'the best', as well as average Joe/Jane, most I've seen it happen to fall into the latter. I've even done it myself a couple of times many decades ago (I too fell for the 'partial load is proper' notion.....it isn't)
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Old January 16, 2019, 10:22 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Leaf View Post
"Revolver and Lever action in .357 wise choice?" I don't know how "wise" that might be in today's world but it sure can be a lot of fun.
With our nations current direction politically/socially/morally I would bet it's a very wise choice.
When the hammer falls (and it will) semi-autos will scrapped before LG's and six-guns.
Quite depressing seeing our nation being undermined so terribly these last two decades.
Enjoy life while you can.....
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Old January 18, 2019, 10:45 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by usr1987 View Post
Revolver and Lever action in .357 wise choice?
Think so.


Although, to complement the RUGER Blackhawk 6.5" .357 mag...?


...got a .357 mag. carbine w/ the lever on the side.






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Old January 18, 2019, 04:39 PM   #98
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How very odd.
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Old January 18, 2019, 10:18 PM   #99
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I think a .357 revolver & levergun combo is a grand idea, though my revolver tastes lean strongly to single actions.
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Old January 19, 2019, 10:08 AM   #100
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Convertible Blackhawk

One thing that no one has mentioned here is having a Blackhawk with the 9mm conversion cylinder either the standard Blackhawk or the Flattop version.

The original poster wanted a paired rifle / revolver and then brought up the price of .38 and .357. Converting to 9mms for just practice would be cheaper if one doesn't reload cartridges.

I know there is not perfect answer here but having that indestructible Blackhawk in stainless able to shoot .38 / 357 / 9mm has to have a lot going for it.
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