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Old December 8, 2018, 09:03 AM   #1
5pins
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Speer 10mm 200gr Gold Dot in Clear Ballistics Gel



Test Gun: Delta Elite
Barrel length: 5 inches.
Ammunition: Speer 10mm 200gr Gold Dot.
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 1028fps
Gel Temperature 77 degrees.

I finally picked up a box of this ammo when Target Sports had it in stock when I ordered a bunch of 9mm ammo. I got a five-shot average of 1028fps with a high of 1040 and a low 1014fps.



Round one in the bare gel had a velocity of 1042fps and penetrated to 16 inches. Recovered weight was 199.3 grains and expansion was .65 inches. Round two also penetrated to 16 inches. Recovered diameter was .66 inches and weight was 199.1 grains. Velocity was 1032fps.




In the heavy clothed gel, the first round's velocity was 1014fps and it penetrated to 18.25 inches. Recovered weight was 199.8 grains and its expansion was .65 inches. The final round penetrated to 17.5 inches and had a recovered weight of 199.6 grains and an expansion of .66 inches. The chronograph did not get a velocity reading.


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Old December 9, 2018, 04:45 PM   #2
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Definitely needs more velocity to perform. That is really slow for a 10mm with a 5 inch barrel.
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Old January 4, 2019, 12:22 AM   #3
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I checked my Lyman manual, the max loads for a 200gr JHP peg it about 1050fps, with a couple slower powders pushing over 1100.
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Old January 4, 2019, 10:22 PM   #4
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That is about exactly what you would want in terminal performance. The velocity is moderate enough that any 10mm would handle a steady diet of them. Thank you for posting this.
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Old January 5, 2019, 07:42 AM   #5
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Gold dots shine when pushed to near failure. Increase that velocity until the jacket peels back behind the core and is hanging by its dear life.

Should check out what happens to GD 180gr at 1300fps

Last edited by TxFlyFish; January 5, 2019 at 07:48 AM.
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Old January 5, 2019, 09:58 AM   #6
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You're trying to mesh hunting vs personal defense.

What you want is a hunting level velocity. Gold Dots aren't designed for high velocity.

Vista Outdoors, which owns Speer and Federal, hasn't made an HST 10mm. I bet they will not, but if they do, you can also bet it would be low velocity. I bet Vista knows about the performance of their rounds better than Underwood/BB/all the others.

These rounds are not hunting rounds with limited expansion like the Hornady XTP. They are maximum expansion at min to mid level penetration.
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Old January 5, 2019, 10:29 AM   #7
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Most likely to make sure delta elites and g29 don’t blow up
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Old January 5, 2019, 02:20 PM   #8
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Very interesting. I've been thinking about adding a 10mm for a couple years now, and this performance is about perfect. I was worried that it may be a bit much for CCW or HD and pose an overpenetration issue, but those numbers are about perfect. The heavier weight bullet also give it an edge over .40S&W as well. Something to consider.
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Old January 5, 2019, 02:32 PM   #9
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wow, how far the 10mm has fallen from a 200gr. @ 1,200 fps as spec to barely breaking 1,000 fps.
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Old January 5, 2019, 03:26 PM   #10
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Here is the 40S&W HST outperforming the 10mm Gold Dot load:
https://www.luckygunner.com/40-sw-18...rounds#geltest
40S&W in Gold Dot 155gr:
https://www.luckygunner.com/40-s-w-1...rounds#geltest
40S&W Ranger T:
https://www.luckygunner.com/40-sw-18...ies-50#geltest

More loads and better factory loads for defense in 40S&W as you can see in the 10mm testing:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/10m...tic-gel-tests/

Velocity doesn't matter in the sense that even if you were to get the mythical 1500FPS or even the 1300FPS, that isn't a rifle round. It's still doing the work of a handgun.

Luckygunner: "are barely distinguishable from a typical .40 S&W load while others are closer to the original “hot” 10mm loads offered in the early days of the caliber’s history. This is an important reminder that every bullet performs optimally within a specific velocity window that varies depending on its design. Faster is not always better."

Last edited by wild cat mccane; January 5, 2019 at 03:35 PM.
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Old January 5, 2019, 11:47 PM   #11
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Faster in a hollow point will sometimes result in a decrease in penetration due to petals opening prematurely and acting like a parachute. You can overcome this by pushing it even faster so that the petals expand and tuck behind the core. The result is even bigger permanent cavity and you regain the lost penetration.

You can tell these gold dots are not fully expanded, that’s how Speer attains penetration numbers, which is kinda disappointing. Either the 200gr can’t be pushed fast or Speer doesn’t want to blow up someone’s unsupported chamber. Speer’s been known to make weaksauce “+P” loads
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Old January 7, 2019, 12:26 AM   #12
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carbine

Where that bullet weight (200) and Speer cartridge may come into its own is in a 10mm carbine. My HiPoint (all gun snobs may moan here) is yielding 200 fps increase with 200 gr slugs over my stock G20, 1090 fps v. 1290 fps.

That velocity, obtained with a less than optimal 2400 powder BTW, is a notable increase in performance with the heavy 200 gr slug. The carbine drives a 180gr XTP to 1355 fps, the G20 same load, 1155 fps. I'll add that my loads with 2400, though not the "hot" powder for 10mm, are very consistent and I think I may prefer it for its even, moderate burn rate and sacrifice some velocity, for lower pressure and no bulged cases in the Glock.

How long the HiPoint carbine holds up is anybody's guess, but it sure drives the 200 gr slug with authority. Whether the Speer 200 gr load would yield the same results in a carbine is another guess too.
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Old January 7, 2019, 01:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JERRYS. View Post
wow, how far the 10mm has fallen from a 200gr. @ 1,200 fps as spec to barely breaking 1,000 fps.
You can thank Federal, they're notorious for loading 10mm so light. The .32 H&R Magnum suffered a similar fate in the 80s when H&R themselves were making shoddy revolvers in the chambering and couldn't handle max loads, so the manufacturers started loading ALL their .32 H&R Mag ammo down.

That was for a safety issue, the 10mm is loaded down because the bullets can't hold up to the velocity.

Pretty simple fix: make bullets that are designed for the higher velocity. I know, I know, costs money.
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Old January 7, 2019, 04:32 AM   #14
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TruthTellers, Speer loads a 210gr. Gold Dot to 1,400 fps for their .44 magnum. it seems they just use the same bullet for their .40 cal as they do for their 10mm. Speer just has no interest in the proper 10mm loading.
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Old January 8, 2019, 01:51 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JERRYS. View Post
TruthTellers, Speer loads a 210gr. Gold Dot to 1,400 fps for their .44 magnum. it seems they just use the same bullet for their .40 cal as they do for their 10mm. Speer just has no interest in the proper 10mm loading.
And Speer is owned by Federal who also have no interest in a proper 10mm load.
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Old January 8, 2019, 07:56 AM   #16
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I totally disagree.

The poorly constructed hollow points hold up "better" because they aren't designed to expand. For example, Seirra crud hollow points don't expand at all. Crank up their velocity like Buffalo Bore does, they expand.

If you are talking hollow point for defense, then the 40SW and 9mm HST are showing there is no need for a faster 10mm round. Honestly, what is the 40 or 9mm HST doing wrong for defense? Nothing. Maximum expansion in those rounds at mid level penetration.

If you want hunting, do the super fast XTP rounds. However, you wouldn't pick XTP over HST given the obvious difference in results for self defense.

You don't get it both ways.
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Old January 9, 2019, 08:34 AM   #17
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To my point, look at the 357 XPD Barnes load. In a 2" barrel it's the largest 357 expanding round and goes 14"

Now, same round in a 4" barrel adding 200ft per second. Dropped the expansion but increased penetration by 2 inches.

If a hollow point pills back fast and goes deeper, that might not be what you want. But a hollow point isn't going to stay open indefinitely while traveling farther due to increased velocity.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...llistics-test/
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Old January 9, 2019, 10:16 PM   #18
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If you push it fast you do get both ways. The petals have to expand first before they tuck behind the core. In case of gold dots it’s even more extreme as the jacket gets peeled back like a banana
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Old January 10, 2019, 12:47 PM   #19
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You can pretty much always tell how tough a Gold Dot is by how deep the hollow cavity is, the deeper it is, the less tough, the more shallow, they better those hold up to higher speeds. With this 10mm loading, I see it as a good option in that you get good performance with low recoil. Sure it's not loaded to full power, but very little that comes from the major manufacturers are loaded to max, it's too risky for them, and that's not just 10mm either. Federal is the only one that offers a full house 10mm of the major ammo makers, their 180gr Trophy Bonded @ 1275 fps can be considered full powered.

A few years ago Speer offered some 200gr Gold Dots in .40 S&W, I'm not sure if they ever saw the light of day on the public side, but the component bullets were available for a short while and were basically longer versions of the 180gr Gold Dot. I don't carry 10mm, but I wouldn't really be upset with this loading, I'm sure it performs pretty well while maintaining lower recoil, which seems preferable for self defense use.
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Old January 11, 2019, 06:29 AM   #20
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That velocity seems to stir up the old "might as well carry a .40 S&W" argument. Underwood and possibly other companies load this weight in 10mm up to a reliable 1250fps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFUAmIgR918

Yeah, lower recoil is nice but it also provokes the same argument. I like .40 S&W. I use it to do .40 S&W sorts of things. If I was going to spend the cash on a 10mm pistol and ammo, I'd want it to do 10mm sorts of things.
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Old January 11, 2019, 08:59 AM   #21
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Quote:
That velocity seems to stir up the old "might as well carry a .40 S&W" argument. Underwood and possibly other companies load this weight in 10mm up to a reliable 1250fps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFUAmIgR918

Yeah, lower recoil is nice but it also provokes the same argument. I like .40 S&W. I use it to do .40 S&W sorts of things. If I was going to spend the cash on a 10mm pistol and ammo, I'd want it to do 10mm sorts of things.
Yep.

That's why for years the hardcore 10mm fans have said: if all you want a 10mm pistol for is to shoot only (or mostly) '40-level' loads, DON'T get a 10mm. Get a .40 pistol and be done with it.

Why waste your money on downloaded '40'-performance from the more expensive 10mm case? Just stick with the .40 cartridge.

And although you can load or find 10mm ammo topped with all the same bullet-weights as the .40S&W, where the 10mm really shines - velocity-wise - is in its ability to push the 'heavy-weights' very fast ... starting at 200gns and up.

Especially with the advent of 'Glock-friendly' polycoated hard-cast slugs (slick to feed, and no leading up the barrel). You can load 220gn 10mm HC slugs to 1250fps, and 200gn HC slugs to 1275fps.

Try doing that in a .40 pistol and you get a hand-grenade.
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Old January 11, 2019, 10:52 AM   #22
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This might sound ridiculous but I have a sentimental preference for 1250 fps. From my pocket gun in .327 slinging 85-grain projectiles to a woods gun in 10mm slinging 200-grain projectiles, I'd love to one day have the same velocity standardized at different weights between my handgun calibers.
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Old January 11, 2019, 11:10 AM   #23
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Cosmodragoon:

Heh. I have something similar for 1000fps in 158gr .38spl/.357mag and 180gr-240gr .44spl/.44mag.

1000fps plus a hard cast LSWC for critters or a soft LSWC-HP for personnel.

Versus critters, hard & fast enough to penetrate length-ways through anything I am likely to encounter. Versus humans, at the sweet spot for soft LSWC-HP effectiveness. Both without full-magnum recoil.
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Old January 11, 2019, 11:44 AM   #24
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Quote:
That velocity seems to stir up the old "might as well carry a .40 S&W" argument. Underwood and possibly other companies load this weight in 10mm up to a reliable 1250fps:
Unless the pistol you own and like to shoot is a 10mm. Then this ammo gives you the ability to carry your 10mm as a self-defense pistol with ammo matched to the task.

Not every 357mag is loaded with full power ammo all the time...same deal
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Old January 11, 2019, 08:37 PM   #25
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Federal 210gr 40S&W at 1050FPS

https://www.natchezss.com/federal-am...fps-50-ct.html

Last edited by wild cat mccane; January 11, 2019 at 08:50 PM.
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