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Old December 3, 2018, 01:30 PM   #1
Felenari
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10/22 or 15/22?

I'm saving some money to build a little 22 semi auto so I don't shoot out my semi collectible lever action and was thinking either a 10/22 takedown to build or a s&w 15-22.has anyone built either of these from parts? Is one more fun to build than the other?
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Old December 3, 2018, 02:45 PM   #2
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Any .22 rifle built from separate parts, including the Ruger 10/22, is going to cost more than a "came from the factory version". It's all gonna depend on what your expected outcome involves.
If you just want a plinker, get a factory rifle. If you want a 10/22 to use in competition shooting, then you may indeed want to go with more of the better parts available:

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Old December 3, 2018, 03:02 PM   #3
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Nice color on that stock you have there.

I'd like to have something fun to shoot but I enjoy the act of assembling and customising just as much. I'm not planning on competing with it other than maybe bet with a buddy. I know you can spend as much as your heart desires but I'm trying to stay around or under 800 to 1000$. I talked to a few friends here and I'm thinking I want a fun takedown 10/22 with a mannlicher stock or something. Rail on the Barrel for red dot perhaps. I'm not building it for a while so I want to know a bit more about the firearms before I start. I've shot a 10/22 but not a 15-22. I've heard the 15-22 is really fun when (legally) converted to full auto.
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Old December 3, 2018, 03:28 PM   #4
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I prefer the 10/22. The 15/22 has a bunch of proprietary parts and even when properly built will not stay with the 10/22 accuracy-wise. Magazines are hard to find and quirky. Barrel removal requires a special tool. They do take a lot of AR parts, but not all. But of course, if you gotta have it, go ahead and get the 15/22.
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Old December 3, 2018, 03:40 PM   #5
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I don't have to have it. I was just wondering about the 15-22. I've only ever heard about it as a cheap way to get practice in with an ar15 esque platform and as a fun full auto conversion. I like the looks of the 10/22 more than the 15-22 but word of mouth on reliability I've heard nothing but good things about the 10/22. Just wanted to know more about the two before making a decision.

I think I'd have more fun with the takedown 10/22 over the 15-22. Especially in California where anything that looks like an AR automatically makes you the scum of the earth.
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Old December 3, 2018, 04:14 PM   #6
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I have factory and full-house custom 10/22s, as well as AR22s. It all comes down to what you like and what you want to do with them. I have them set up for Rimfire Challenge, Precision Rimfire, hunting, suppressors, training, even a clone of a SWAT rig I built for a department many years ago to take out lights.

Both can be made just as accurate (about 1 MOA) out to 100 yards. But there are trade offs and magazines, chambers, etc, must be balanced against purpose and cost. Black Dog mags are readily available for the AR22s, as are bolts and barrels, all else is AR15.

In CA, the 10/22 is going to be a little less stressful as the 10 round magazines are everywhere. Since you seem to like them a little more, go that way. I build all of mine these days because I want specific parts and I want to fit and test them. While I am sponsored by Tactical Solutions, they are what I preferred prior. My most recent build I used a PMACA long nose chassis with a Kidd barrel, everything else TS, for a precision build. They make some great take-downs and parts if you want to build one just like you want it.
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Old December 3, 2018, 04:22 PM   #7
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What is a PMACA build?
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Old December 3, 2018, 04:27 PM   #8
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Only the 10/22

Quote:
has anyone built either of these from parts? Is one more fun to build than the other?
Only the 10/22 and more than once. There is not on a OEM 10/22, that does not have an after-market part. There is even an aftermarket magazine spring available. You can buy a stock 10/22 for about $175 or slightly more, Add aftermarket parts that can run into the hundreds, then tear it back down and sell the original. You don't see many used 10/22's at gun-shows and it they are OEM, they are not worth much. If you try and sell a built up 10/22, you will take a beating every time ….

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 3, 2018, 04:34 PM   #9
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Oh I don't want to sell it. I just want to build one and regain some lost patience while I do it. :-P
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Old December 3, 2018, 05:44 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Felenari View Post
What is a PMACA build?
http://pmacamfg.com/pmaca-10-22-long-nose-chassis/
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Old December 3, 2018, 05:54 PM   #11
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That is a pretty neat stock. I'm going to have to look at this kidd mounting thingy it mentions though. You mentioned chambers earlier also. Are you talking something like a dimpled chamber for slower extraction? Pretty sure dimpled chamber isn't the correct term though.
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Old December 3, 2018, 06:30 PM   #12
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Chambers...there are the Bentz, and a few modified Bentz. Lilja has their own in a few flavors, there is an LR, Eley and Anschutz as well. Kidd has his own as well, and in my opinion, with several types of ammo, it is the best barrel for pure accuracy in a 10/22 that will also run. There is a lot to the chamber and the other related dimensions. Some are so tight that they are not good fits for semi-autos.

When I was building custom AR22 uppers, I used Beyer barrels. He makes a great barrel and the AR22 barrels I had him make, he now offers on the website, again with his own chamber. I have TacSol barrels on the rest of my 10/22s.
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Old December 3, 2018, 06:54 PM   #13
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I've had both. Sold the Smith. But it isn't a bad gun at all and if wanting an AR look alike that shoots 22 RF I like it better than the other options.
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Old December 3, 2018, 07:45 PM   #14
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Is there any good reading you recommend on chamber design? I'm assuming the tight chambers are for something like a bolt action so that the round sits in exactly the same spot with less gas bleed out the back of the chamber right? Sounds like I have my homework cut out before I decide on anything.
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Old December 4, 2018, 10:00 AM   #15
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Good reading on chamber design for semi-auto 22LR? Other than searching the forums and people's opinions, not really. I have had chambers I have felt were too tight and some that were too loose. Barrels from Kidd, TacSol and Beyer, in that order, have given me the best success from an accuracy perspective. TS and Beyer are less accurate, but they will run past where the Kidd needs to be cleaned. But I have not tried all of them. Kidd is a full barrel, so it will weigh more than the TS or Beyer that use a steel tube inside an aluminum barrel.

The tenon dimensions and the freebore are also issues. Most experienced 10/22 folks understand that the stock barrels, cut to SAAMI have a chamber that is too long and often not concentric and fit loose to the receiver. That is why most end up with an aftermarket barrel, and when you consider costs, buying the parts and building yourself, or spending $500+ on a high end maker, is the preferred path. While I have researched and shot a few of the threaded barrel options, I just don't see the need.

If you really like a factory Ruger, you can always buy it and send it directly to CPC and have him work it over. He does a great job and I have seen where his work has cut group sizes by a factor of 4 times. http://www.ct-precision.com/ruger10-22.html

Brownells sells receivers, on sale for like $65 right now and they are a good path to build your own. https://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...rod116208.aspx

You can buy a complete reworked bolt from CPC for $90. Pick a barrel and then you are down to trigger and stock.
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Old December 4, 2018, 10:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Any .22 rifle built from separate parts,
.

THE FIRST RULE OF RUGER 10/22 IS WE DONT SPEAK OF THE MONEY WE HAVE IN THE RUGER 10/22.

Seriously the amount of money I have in a perfectly serviceable $200 .22 is well ......... see the first rule.
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Old December 4, 2018, 11:24 PM   #17
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I was looking at the Brownells receivers today actually. I think I'm going to wait until I know a bit more gunsmithing and a bit more about various brands. Also need to look at my $ spent for fun had.

I wouldn't mind a full steel barrel. I prefer some heft to my firearms.
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Old December 5, 2018, 10:16 AM   #18
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A S&W 15-22 isn't made from AR parts, but it also costs quite a bit less than an AR in 22lr. If you already have the tools and are familiar with AR assembly, an AR is easier to free float and produce good reliability and accuracy. There is less to get wrong in an AR, imo, and the design has some advantages.

10/22s can be money pits. The bolt is a couple of ounces heavier than the CMMG bolts, which are too light in my estimation. The advantage of building a 10/22 from parts is that there is a huge world of vendors from whom to choose. The disadvantage is that there is a huge world of vendors in which to become lost.

10/22 accuracy tuning is a dark art. The barrel wants a pressure pad at the front or back, unless of course it doesn't. Free floating is brilliant or ineffective, depending on the specific rifle and who you ask. I have a lot of affection for Ruger designs and I've tinkered with them for decades. Yet, the 10/22 trigger group drives some people nutty, and the quality of Ruger's manufacturing is not always superlative, even if they do have excellent customer service.

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Old December 5, 2018, 11:57 AM   #19
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I've only shot an AR once in my life. It was pretty fun.

What is a CMMG bolt? Why particularly the trigger group also? Is it the mechanics of the design?
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Old December 5, 2018, 12:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
What is a CMMG bolt?
CMMG sells dedicated AR barrels in 22lr and bolts that work with them.

Quote:
Why particularly the trigger group also? Is it the mechanics of the design?
The 10/22 trigger group is held together by pins that may fall out if the group is turned too much off horizontal. It's a bit like disassembly of a Ruger MKII pistol in that it isn't hard at all if one already knows what he is doing, but can be a source of frustration to others.
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Old December 5, 2018, 12:44 PM   #21
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Ah I see. So in the CMMG build, with a lighter bolt does that just make the firearm cycle harder and 8ncrease felt recoil or is it a wear and tear thing?

Has anyone ever tried using small post screws to keep the trigger in one piece? I've seen some cool non threaded designs for tiny post screws when I worked in a cleanroom environment for a while. I imaging the cost of the trigger would go up by at least 40$ but I imagine some people would buy them for "ultra reliability."

I feel you on the Ruger MKII. I've never disassembled one myself but I've seen the video. I used to work at Dick's and a customer of mine showed me. I rember taking apart my 686 to the springs and going -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- am I gonna do with this mess. Now it's much easier. Practice makes perfect as they say. I definitely want to build a 10/22 takedown after thinking about it. I want wood but weatherproof ish so I'm going to wait till I take my stock making class in trinidad and carve it from a laminated blank. I've seen pictures of a mannlicher stock on a takedown with all brass fittings and it hit me in the I wants so hard.
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Old December 5, 2018, 12:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Ah I see. So in the CMMG build, with a lighter bolt does that just make the firearm cycle harder and 8ncrease felt recoil or is it a wear and tear thing?
It's not wear and tear; I don't like the hard cycling. Also, with a stock recoil spring and the newer crop of fast 40gr ammunition, I wonder if I am hearing port pop. Hard to tell whether it is that or the bolt reaching the end of its rearward travel.

Quote:
Has anyone ever tried using small post screws to keep the trigger in one piece? I've seen some cool non threaded designs for tiny post screws when I worked in a cleanroom environment for a while. I imaging the cost of the trigger would go up by at least 40$ but I imagine some people would buy them for "ultra reliability."
I don't think the pin design hinders reliability, but it can be disheartening to get to step 3 and realise you've inadvertently lost the pin you inserted in step 1 because you forgot to keep the assembly level.


If you are the sort of person who can make his own stock, you are an order of magnitude more handy than I will ever be. I'm guessing that none of these 10/22 niggles will bother you, and you'll end up with a prettier item than an AR.
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Old December 5, 2018, 07:45 PM   #23
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I'm definitely going to the prettier side of things until I know more gunsmithing I think.

For the port pop, see if someone you know owns one of the newer galaxy phones. They can record at 900fps now for a 1 sec burst.
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Old December 6, 2018, 01:54 PM   #24
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Does chamber/barrel choice make a huge difference in the takedown 10/22? The Kidd barrels aren't too expensive either. Does the takedown take regular barrels or does the chamber have to be cut differently?
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