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Old November 21, 2018, 10:57 AM   #26
BeeShooter
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Over pressure. Over loading or Unloading powder charge. Also- Make sure you don't use any combustible lubricate in resizing your cases. If any of that stuff gets into the case at reloading, bad things happen. It also could be a combination of things like a heavy powder charge, wrong lub. and too tight of bullet grip all at once.
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Old November 21, 2018, 03:22 PM   #27
44 AMP
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Powder can on the table next to the scale is 4064. The last power I used was 4985.
OF course, you are SURE...but there is a good reason for the old reloader's rule of only one can of powder (the one you are using) on the bench at a time.


Your ejector is probably wedged in place with brass shavings. AS mentioned, pushing it further in (if possible) could free it up.

I had a similar but much more severe accident back in the early 70s, also with a Remington .308. Powder mix up, but with a pistol powder!

Bolt frozen, gas hit me on the cheek. Rifle went to gunsmith. Bolt handle slightly bent getting it open. Case took a couple wacks with a chisel to get it out. Head expanded so much the primer fell out, and there were 3 cracks in the primer pocket web. There was a "belt" of brass swaged around the head of the case infront of the extractor groove. best estimate of pressure was between 90-110,000 psi!

The rifle held together. Extractor & pin broken. safety pin broken, bolt stop pin broken from the vented gas. Otherwise, it was ok. Rifle was repaired, and has been fine ever since. I still have it. At the time, the gunsmith told me Remington proof tests their rifles to 80,000psi. This one, based on the pressure signs of the case, was well beyond that.

I DEFINATELY changed my powder handling and storage practices after that.
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All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
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Old November 21, 2018, 04:36 PM   #28
cptmclark
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Happy Thanksgiving!!

Over pressure is pretty certain. How and why my quandry. I fired just one cartridge out of the batch I had loaded.
So..I pulled bullets and weighted the powder. All were within 0.1 gr of my target, which wouldn't have been a problem for 4895 or 4064. They were filled to the neck anyway. Only one powder on the bench at one time ,and the can next to the scale was 4064. I think I said 4895 someplace, but that was a previous batch for the 22-250. No doubt I'm confused, but I knew that at the beginning.
I was luckier with the pressure (no pistol powder). I was afraid of wrecking it, but the bolt rotated up with a few whacks from a rubber mallet. Then the handle was up, the action slid back under it's own weight. The primer was loose and fell out, but I don't see how it found it's way over to the ejector with the bolt closed. And it seemed to be whole. Still, there's a streak of brass in the crevis between the bolt face and ejector pin, so it came from someplace.
I''ll dump the powder and start over, but I'd still like to "know" what I did wrong.
One clue: When I was seating the primers they were sticking going in with a click. On some of the seated ones on "edge of the primer was dinged" just a tiny bit. This is at least abnormal. Hasn't happened before or since. If they were small primers (I use on the 6.5) it doesn't seem that they would stay in the pockets. If they would, that could be the problem.

I SURE DO APPRECIATE ALL THE SUGGESTIONS, IDEAS AND ADVICE.
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Old November 21, 2018, 04:38 PM   #29
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Oh, roger roger on the bigger bullets.
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Old November 21, 2018, 06:45 PM   #30
David R
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I did something like that.

Had a Remington 22-250 700VL with the heavy barrel.

I was shooting 52HP bullets in Jacketed. I was shooting 55 Gr home cast lead gas check bullets.

In the end, I shot a jacketed bullet with a jacketed charge of WW 296. I DID happen to be usig the chronograph at he time. It went 4200 fps.

I got sprayed in the face with powder. The bolt would not open.

I took it home, used a hammer and block of wood to open the bolt. The handle broke off.

I sent the rifle to Remington. They took it apart and replaced the bolt and barrel. I got the stock and reciever back.

I pulled bullets and weighed charges until I finally figured out that I had used WW 296 instead of WW748. YES a stupid mistake.

I wrote a second letter to Remington expaining exactly what I had done. They shipped the rifle back to me all repaired. The invoice stated NO CHARGE due to Good Will. I think it had a lot to do with me admittig what I had done wrong.

That was maybe 10 years ago. I still shoot that rifle but gave up cast bullets.


Just so you know, I shot a 14 Shot group at three hundred yards 5.5". I am proud of that one, Cast Bullets I made in my garage and worked up my own load. It was a max charge of SR4759 with a 58 gr gas checked cast bullet of pure linotype going 2800 fps.

NOW I KEEP ON LY ONE POWDER NEAR MY LOADING BENCH

David
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Old November 22, 2018, 10:08 AM   #31
HiBC
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There has been more testimony to support what I was trying to say in post 25.

I'm talking about human fallibility.I have that.This is not a put down of the OP.

Op mentioned he loads 22-250. We talked about the 4895,oops,4064,and powder in the hopper.

We have an unexplained mystery overpressure.

Hypothetically,if I had "stuff" from my last session on my bench,a box of 75 gr Hornady .224 bullets,.223 dies in the press a RE-15 powder can out,and a half hopper of powder in the measure,I have a preponderance of evidence that its PROBABLY RE-15 in the hopper.
I sure hate to waste powder. If I had made a label and put it in the hopper,then I documented the chain of custody,with forethought,in the moment.
I would return it to the can IF I labeled it.

But no amount of circumstantial evidence or memory is good enough. Dumping it on the lawn is my penalty for being sloppy.

A sleeper can enter your powder supply. The mystery .308 overpressure can come from a mistake during a 22-250 session weeks ago. Hopper powder getting poured in the wrong can.

And if the mystery is not explained yet,Murphy says it can,and will occur again.
I can't say that is what happened. I don't know.

Its a bummer root cause is undiscovered.

Have a process you follow that prevents the effect of human error.

Last edited by HiBC; November 22, 2018 at 10:15 AM.
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Old November 23, 2018, 11:45 AM   #32
cptmclark
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Well, shucks!
For those of you who care about my mystery...: Cleaning off my loading tables today..... Very embarrassed.....I think I misread a can of 4198 for 4895. standing right there plain as day in line with other cans that I've used recently and put away is the can of 4198. I haven't used that for a long time, since I was loading a wildcat. Shouldn't have been in that group of cans.
A very fine powder but not suitable for heavy loads in a 308. I looked at it many times and didn't see it out of position. Probably didn't see it was wrong when it was set next to the scale while I loaded that small batch either.

Hopefully, I found the problem. Now, to find that punch set and try to depress that ejector pin...
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Old November 23, 2018, 12:32 PM   #33
HiBC
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Its great that you found the problem.

The problem is not the can of 4198 .

The problem is we (including me) are human beings that make mistakes.

We can design or adopt a process that goes a long way to eliminate those mistakes if we adhere to it.

Jeff Cooper wrote the four rules of gun safety because humans make mistakes and "unloaded" guns have killed people. So we have a simple code.

I pick up a gun,I point it in a safe direction,assuming its loaded.I clear it,and hand it to you.
Then you check to make sure its clear.
And we still stay muzzle safe.

Maybe your situation requires powder storage on the bench. Not ideal,but if so,there needs to be a storage space clearly separated from the "powder on deck,being used" spot. Only one can on deck. Better,only one can on the bench.

A good technique borrowed from the chemistry people is every time you pick up the can to dispense powder,don't just glance ,read out loud,

"IMR 4895" then do it again,out loud "IMR 4895"

The 4198 won't get by you.

Then read your can again when you dump the hopper back in.

My apologies if this sounds like a lecture. I'm not criticizing you.

Its the process/tool set that I use to prevent human mistakes. I hope it helps
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Old November 27, 2018, 02:09 PM   #34
F. Guffey
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Quote:
too tight of bullet grip all at once.
From the arsenal: they claimed they had cases with 600 units of measurements of tensions? holding the bullet in the neck. R. Lee said there is no such thing as too much bullet hold (what ever that means) but he did claim it is pressirer on pounds that drives the bullet out of the case and we had a member that that fired 4 rounds and then shot another round; when he ejected the 5 case he discovered the neck was missing, he then checked the fours cases he fired; all of the case necks were missing.

I want all the bullet hold I can get, I can not have too much bullet hold; if I could measure neck tension with a gage that measured in units of tension I would choose to use all the tension I could get. I am stuck with bullet hold because I have tension gages that measure in pounds; I know it is not fair but I understand the old saying about accepting the things I can not change.

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Old November 27, 2018, 06:11 PM   #35
Elkins45
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Originally Posted by Unclenick View Post
The deteriorating powder theory would fit nicely, then. You get a higher peak pressure, but a bit less gas due to the breakdown having taken out some of the nitrocellulose, leaving you with a lower muzzle pressure. But the average pressure during bullet travel could have been about the same, giving you similar velocity and recoil. I would definitely toss the powder.
I had a batch of 270 loads that were blowing their case heads way back down by the web. The culprit was found to be a batch of IMR 4831 that had gone bad. Nitric acid had seemingly made the brass brittle while at the same time fusing the bullets to the case neck. They were the dickens to pull, and the bullets below the neck were bright blue-green. The case failures I experienced before throwing out the whole batch (like an idiot I kept shooting them even though every one came out of the gun with split necks) mimicked an overpressure event, but were actually normal pressure events in weakened brass.
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