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Old December 21, 2018, 05:56 PM   #51
mehavey
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Quote:
the fits it takes with jams . . . .
Please elaborate as to what constitute "jams"
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Old December 22, 2018, 04:37 PM   #52
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I run the shotgun venue at a local sportsmens club - 450 members. On Fridays we have Pump Gun Friday - and just about everyone shoots a 870. In SCs it's 6 shots a station all report pairs. We all ordered the extention tubes. Some shoot the new black plastic express, but they all work flawlessly. I own six 1894s, one 1889, one 1873 and 1882 Remington SxSs, and a Model 10, 11, 31, 58, and 870. If I were buying a new 870 it wouldn't be a express. I just don't feel anyone should expect a whole lot for a 200+ dollar shotgun. If you want quality, then be prepared to pay for it. Is 7 to 800 really all that much for a good pump shotgun ? If you don't feel like paying a bit more then buy a nice used 870 Wingmaster for around 350. And pistols - I have a new Remington in 45, 9mm, and 380 - all are fine guns that shot just fine. The 9 was one of them after the reissue.
JMHO
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Old December 22, 2018, 11:26 PM   #53
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Is 7 to 800 really all that much for a good pump shotgun ?
Yes
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Old December 22, 2018, 11:46 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by bladesmith 1
Is 7 to 800 really all that much for a good pump shotgun ?
I would say it all depends on what you want.

Nothing at all wrong with an Express... I'd much rather drag my Express through the mud, the brush, brambles and barbed wire than a super nice high polish Wingmaster that I was afraid of scratching up.

I'd dearly love to have a few high polish Wingmasters in my gun safe, and they would be pretty to look at... but they wouldn't have the same special attachment that I have to my Express... Lots of good hunting trips and memories we've had together. My Express is my sweetheart, and I take special care of her! She has the heart of a Wingmaster, just not the looks... that's fine by me.
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Old December 23, 2018, 03:04 AM   #55
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$700 to $800 for a new pump shot gun is nuts, especially when you are talking Rem 870. For about half that you can pick up a high condition shooter in Win 12 or Ithaca 37 or even a Rem 31. The best 870 ever made is not near the gun of these 3.
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Old December 23, 2018, 08:27 AM   #56
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On the Wingmaster you are paying for the fit, finish, and quality of the wood.

Yes Winchester 12's and Ithaca 37's can be had less expensively, BUT
they will need work.
By the way new Ithaca's are in the $900 range.
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Old December 23, 2018, 10:46 AM   #57
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... The best 870 ever made is not near the gun of these 3.
I don't think I'd go that far... in fact I know I wouldn't.
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Old December 23, 2018, 11:42 AM   #58
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$700 to $800 for a new pump shot gun is nuts, especially when you are talking Rem 870. For about half that you can pick up a high condition shooter in Win 12 or Ithaca 37 or even a Rem 31. The best 870 ever made is not near the gun of these 3.
Where I live, one can expect to pay closer to 6-700 for a decent model 12
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Old December 23, 2018, 12:07 PM   #59
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Bye, Bye Remmy?

It's sad to come to the realization that some of the things we cherished are no longer around.

How I loved my models 600, 700 rifles and especially my 20ga G-3; what a smooth, natural pointer.

So, what is a Remington fan to search for in place of it?
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Old December 23, 2018, 04:28 PM   #60
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A 870. I'm sorry Drm50, I couldn't disagree more. How many 870s sold compared to their nearest competitor ? I think the 870 number is over 11 million. By gosh, by golly, they must be doing something right. I own both 31s and 870s and find one just as good as the other. Maybe some of you wouldn't want to take a Wingmaster hunting, but quite a few are still being bought and used for trap shooting. Duck hunting from a boat, no. But upland game hunting, sure.
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Old December 23, 2018, 10:32 PM   #61
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How many 870s sold compared to their nearest competitor ? I think the 870 number is over 11 million. By gosh, by golly, they must be doing something right.
I think the issue some people are raising is the current quality of Remington products. In that context, what a company has done in the past is irrelevant.
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Old December 23, 2018, 10:46 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by ATN082268
I think the issue some people are raising is the current quality of Remington products. In that context, what a company has done in the past is irrelevant.
Well, no, not really, since Drm70 said "The best 870 ever made is not near the gun of these three."

That is just categorically untrue, in my opinion... and I'm sure others would feel the same.
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Old December 25, 2018, 12:54 PM   #63
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I can't say every 870 has no issues. There may have been a time when quality fell, but I think the current 870s are fine guns. To each their own. You don't like em, don't buy one. I personally wouldn't think twice and would buy one.
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Old January 14, 2019, 10:12 PM   #64
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I have a youth Express 20 ga that is fine. I guess less than 10 years old. It is not pretty, but sure is reliable. It is my home defense shotgun with 00 Buck in it.

Last edited by baddarryl; January 14, 2019 at 10:24 PM.
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Old January 16, 2019, 04:47 PM   #65
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Jams. Some of the guys have problems with the new cheap shells with the base ripping when the gun tries to eject. But I think that's with the autos, not sure. Pumps - just about every problem with ejection is operated error - short stroking. We shoot a " pump gun Friday " at the club on SCs. A lot of guys bought pumps, usually 870s. About 50% have a problem some time or another with short stroking because they're trying to shoot too fast. Well used guns can have mechanical problems but we don't see it very often, and not with new guns. An 870 has two arms going back to the bolt, so there isn't a whole lot than can go wrong. The Wingmaster is a well designed, well made gun. Always has been. The same for the Express, just not as pretty.
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Old January 16, 2019, 05:42 PM   #66
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Pumps - just about every problem with ejection is operated error - short stroking.
No
There is a hit/miss but SEVERE problem with chamber cut QC w/ the Express models that will hang up a steel-base shell to the point of requiring mortaring the butt on the ground to eject.
Nothing to do with short stroking at all.

[IMG]

See also string: https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho....php?p=6507127
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Old January 25, 2019, 06:42 PM   #67
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Are you showing one gun that had some problems and got through ? I worked in the auto industry for 35 years as a electrician, and many times machines got out of specs and had to be adjusted. That meant some parts not in specs got put in a auto, or engine. That doesn't mean most were produced that way, but at times they were. I have trouble believing very many Remingtons were made like the one you showed. None of the guns the guys were short stroking had poor machining like you showed. It was suggested what the problem was, and they made corrections, and the problems went away.
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Old January 25, 2019, 06:51 PM   #68
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This was two for two, BladeSmith.
I connected the dots . . . especially given significant/additional internet traffic having the same problem.
(remember, I'd done this before w/ another Express that I bought for I son-in-law)
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