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Old January 14, 2019, 09:32 PM   #1
Prof Young
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NAA Black Widow Range Report . . .

Wheel Gun Shooters:

I'd decided that my Christmas present would be an NAA mini revolve, but didn't know which one to get. Read everything I could find and settled on either a pug or the black widow. Went with the black widow magnum with a two inch barrel and an extra cylinder for shooting 22LR. Local range lady found me one and I got it for $315.

First impression was that the grip was HUGE. (see first pic below) And it is. You can get a smaller grip. I read the manual which included multiple warning to NOT shoot Armscor precision in 22 mag. So first range trip did not include any of that and the gun shot well. Had to learn how to aim it, but clearly the gun will shoot as well or better than I do. Sights are more like something you'd expect on a larger gun.

Second range trip was disastrous. Shooting 22LR the cylinder kept binding up making the hammer very hard to cock. Then shooting 22 magnums the flange that holds the cylinder pin in place kept jumping out of it's slot. Yipes. I took a picture of the cylinder pin flange problem (see second pic below) and sent it to NAA. Got a nice e-mail back from "Susan" saying they'd send me a new cylinder pin assembly at not cost, of course. When it came I realized I'd been putting the flange in the reverse direction. (Hey Susan didn't notice either.) I had it on back wards. Changed that and the problem dissolved. My fault not NAA so I owe them for a new cylinder pin assembly (My words not theirs.) In terms of the binding cylinder I had a suspicion it was the ammo not the gun and I was right. I'd been shooting Remington Thunderbolt. Switch away from them and the gun ran just fine.

Most of that above was the third range trip when all the bad turned good. The grip was a touch loose but tightened up the grip screw and that firmed it up well. So all in all this gun is way fun to shoot, the customer service is great and I don't think this will be the only NAA gun I end up owning. It may be a BUG or even the main carry for certain circumstances. All the good things I've read about NAA turn out to be pretty accurate.

Life is good!
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Old January 14, 2019, 09:44 PM   #2
OneFreeTexan
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I have a NAA in short only,,, , the most fun gun ever, and I have learned to shoot it very accurate and close range.
Funny thing, I have had many people tell me a 22 short is worthless as self defense, not that I wanted it for that...However all these expects, none of them will let me shoot them with it to show how ineffective it is.
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Old January 15, 2019, 01:44 PM   #3
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I had a .22 short revolver at the age of 17.
It could not penetrate the sheet metal on an abandoned washing machine I found outside town.

I foolishly tried it on rabbits, and when I did manage to hit one, only disabled it. The rabbit had to be finished off by my cousin using a blade while I was frantically trying to reload that little POS gun as the rabbit lay there squealing in the road. Yeah, only a rabbit, but I can still hear that squeal 50 years later.

The POS refers to a different brand, but it was also a snub & representative of the .22 short's performance.
It is an utterly idiotic & totally braindead choice for personal defense.

I have worked with and/or owned at least a dozen NAA products over the years.
The tiny .22 short was the cutest little bug ever, but as anything other than a cute little toy, see "utterly idiotic & totally braindead" above.
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Old January 15, 2019, 02:52 PM   #4
Bill DeShivs
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Denis,
Your experience with the .22 short is disheartening, but not indicative what the short will do from a quality gun.
I have personally shot a .22 short mini revolver at a Second Chance vest. It nearly penetrated it! It performed as well, or better than .22 LR.
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Old January 15, 2019, 03:45 PM   #5
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Having owned a standard .22LR 1 1/8" NAA for some years, I picked up a .22MAG version when I retired. I looked at them as a cross of Gentleman's Pocket Jewelry and an Onion Field hide-out gun.

The introduction of the Speer GDHP .22MAG got me to thinking about a NAA .22MAG with a 2" barrel, and the BW Convertible appealed to me. I had a local shop order me one.

The first thing I did was get rid of the large BW grips in favor of the company's rubber slip-on grip. Then, I decided to take it to my agency's range and see how it ran at 3-10yds, with both cylinders, since it had actual sights.

I tried some Speer GDHP, Hornady CD (FTX .45gr) and some W-W JHP, since those were the brands of Magnum I had on hand. The little NAA did surprisingly well, although the longer and heavier barrel of the BW did seem to result in some small amount of upward muzzle lift, which I didn't notice when shooting the 1 1/8" .22MAG using the same rounds. The POI was just a bit higher than the POA, as I recall, too.

The .22LR cylinder was mild and fun, and the little revolver showed that it seemingly had a preference for Stingers when it came to accuracy. Somewhat of a little tack-driver out to 7yds. POI/POA were dead on.

Another post which mentioned the .22Short made me think of an old Ruger Bearcat I used to use for field plinking on long walks as a much younger man, where I'd snipe small lizards I'd find sunning themselves. The little .22Short seemed adequate for that task.

If I were going to build a collection of NAA Mini's I'd have to include a .22Short model, if only for it being the smallest .22 revolver produced.

As it is, I'm probably not going to build a collection of them, but I am planning to eventually get around to sending my 1 1/8" .22MAG back to the company and have it re-barreled with a 1 5/8" barrel.

Fun little guns (if you're a longtime SA revolver enthusiast, like me).
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Old January 15, 2019, 04:21 PM   #6
Drm50
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I've had a couple 22 short target pistols but never used them to hunt with. Out of rifle its
a different story. I've shot a truck load of squirrels with shorts and many rabbits. At 30-40 yds a short seems to hit a squirrel harder than a LR. It's like it puts all its omph into it were
a LR shoots through it. It's like the difference between shooting a deer with a FMJ and a
expanding bullet. we use to use shorts for about everything. LRs were reserved for coons,
groundhogs and fox that needed more penetration.
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Old January 15, 2019, 05:54 PM   #7
DPris
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A .22 Short through a one-inch barrel is nothing to bet your life on.
See braindead above.
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Old January 16, 2019, 04:13 PM   #8
CANIS
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I have several NAA minis from .22 short to the Black Widow.

My Black Widow in .22 mag will stay in the X ring all the way out to 10 yards if I take my time. At 7 yards, it is just spot on accurate. I use the rubber slip on grips like what comes with the PUG. At longer ranges, it still is certainly dinner plate accurate to maybe 20 yards or so.

My Pug is not quite as accurate, but it will still make head shots on a Silhouette target out to 10 yards or so with fairly rapid shooting.

The .22lr and the .22 short with short barrels are similarly reduced in accuracy as I go down in size, but they are all really nicely made little guns. I have no problem slipping the PUG or BW in my pocket as a backup and am confident I could hit with either if needed. I sometimes put the .22 short in a neck holster and carry it when I am in areas that do not allow CC but I want to have something other than my knife.

Great little guns. I am confident the .22 mag can do the job and a .22LR or Short to the face or throat up close will at least give me the upper hand in the knife fight and eye gouging party to follow.
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Old January 16, 2019, 04:45 PM   #9
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I’ve got the 1 1/8” .22 Mag for my daily carry gun, for the last year or so, where I can’t carry anything larger. Haven’t really found anything to complain with about it yet.

I’ve always found the accuracy acceptable for what it is (point blank/belly gun). If I haven’t had to much caffeine and it’s a decently warm day, I can keep it to a 2-3” group at 15’, which I find nothing to complain about given the sights, barrel length, and grip size.

It’s not my preferred carry gun, or caliber, but it’s better than nothing, at least to me.
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Old January 16, 2019, 05:45 PM   #10
DPris
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West Jordan allows real guns.
I've been there & done it. Several times, even. Broad daylight, people right out in public.
No passport required to get in, no screening at checkpoints.
Denis

Last edited by DPris; January 16, 2019 at 06:46 PM.
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Old January 16, 2019, 07:20 PM   #11
DPris
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Crank,
Frank & I have discussed your situation in depth.
I think the best outcome here is to immediately quit your job.
You can then carry a serious gun while you're on welfare & looking for new employment.
Denis
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Old January 16, 2019, 07:55 PM   #12
Crankylove
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It is legal to carry in the city where I work (South Salt Lake) and where I work (although against company policy). Being a skinny little guy, and having a very physical job, carrying anything bigger than the Mini wouldn’t work. I used to carry a 3” 1911, and later my SP101, but had to leave them in my car all day, not in the best of neighborhoods, and I am not comfortable with that, so the NAA is the best compromise right now.

I still carry the SP101 after I get home and on weekends, just not during working hours.


Quote:
I think the best outcome here is to immediately quit your job.
You can then carry a serious gun while you're on welfare & looking for new employment
It’s quite tempting, especially the last couple months, but I don’t think the wife would be on board with that
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Old January 16, 2019, 07:58 PM   #13
DPris
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OK, as long as you don't sell your soul completely to the mini-gun.
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Old January 16, 2019, 08:31 PM   #14
Crankylove
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No soul selling here. I appreciate it for what it is, but I’m more of a Ruger fan boy.

Now if Ruger made a mini............
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Old January 16, 2019, 09:06 PM   #15
DPris
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Call 'em!
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Old January 16, 2019, 10:45 PM   #16
Cheapshooter
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I have the 22 short version, and plan to add a LR, and Magnum. But not long barrels, and big grips. Each to their own taste, but for me maximizing a mini just defeats the purpose.
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Old January 17, 2019, 07:09 AM   #17
luger fan
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Good guns but their Forum is full of the most anti American, anti Military of ANYTHING I have read. Sandy, the owner of NAA permits this kind of crap to go on. SHAME on him.
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Old January 17, 2019, 02:11 PM   #18
DPris
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I worked with or owned several of their products, carried one in uniform as an absolute last-ditch third gun (without either approval or knowledge of the overlords), and still have two NAA revolvers.

For what they are, they're nice little products, as long as you're realistic about your expectations with 'em.

The last time I attempted to cover a new one, it was a prototype.
Two cylinders, the regular .22LR & .22MAG.

The gun was rushed to me for a piece in a Guns & Ammo issue.
We ALL knew it was a proto.

The LR cylinder produced the degree of accuracy typical to their mini-guns, the MAG cylinder did not.

In fairness, as I try to do when I run into a problem, I discussed that with their manager who had arranged the test sample, looking for comments.

He wanted those Magnum test results omitted.
I said I write up what I find, that I'd make sure to reference the fact that it WAS a proto in the write-up, and that it was not bad enough to be a deal-killer on the new gun.

No deal. No dice.
MAGNUM results a no go.
Got downright unpleasant.

I got with Sandy & laid it out, he just said he backed his manager & wanted nothing further to do with it.

I discussed with the editor, by mutual agreement we decided that if the maker was going to tell us how to do the review, the review was not going to happen.
Article cancelled.
Never covered that company again.

I don't think Sandy wants much involvement in his company.
Never seen their forum, but if it's the way you say it is, that may be why.
He quite easily may not even pay any attention.
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Old January 17, 2019, 07:33 PM   #19
tallball
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I have had a hankering for one and will get a 22lr one just for fun, eventually.

Given the choice, I'd much rather carry a Kel-Tec P32 that isn't much larger and probably doesn't weigh more.
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Old January 18, 2019, 01:44 AM   #20
TruthTellers
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I have the 4 inch Minimaster, which is basically a longer Black Widow, and I'm apparently the only poster on 3 different gun forums that owns one. Yeah, I know, what's the point of a 4 inch NAA Minimaster that weighs 9oz? Because I hit steel plates out to 50 yards with it about 80% of the time and the large, easy to see sights are a huge reason as to why I can reach out to that distance.

The trigger takes getting use to as does the grip, but after a few hundred rounds you learn it. I'll never part with that Minimaster.

The Black Widow is a good gun, a bit large for what the mini revolvers usually are, and because of that it's a tough one to recommend for ultimate concealment. I don't care for the cylinder pin release, I greatly prefer the detent button design on the traditional NAA's and I also like them because they're smaller revolvers, just with awful sights in comparison.

For the distances an NAA would be used, I don't think the big sights on the Black Widow are necessary. A 4 inch Minimaster that's not really used for super concealment or any sort of concealed carry I think they're terrific sights, but not a 2 inch mini revolver.
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Old January 19, 2019, 10:40 AM   #21
RJM52
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The BW to me is the best of the Mini-Revolver series. Excellent sights and a grip one can get their hand on but still completely concealable...

I also have a MiniMaster 4" with both cylinders. Both are excellent shooters with that said the trigger pull on the BW is MUCH lighter than the MM making the MM harder to shoot well...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...8#Post13468138


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Old January 19, 2019, 07:09 PM   #22
Prof Young
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Two more thoughts on the BW.

I bought the Desantis (sp?) holster for it and it fits just fine. Also has a pouch for some ammo. The holster came an elastic loop on the inside of the holster that, I guess, is supposed to go around the hammer to keep it safely in the holster. But that also effectively ends one's ability to draw it from the holster quickly if at all. If you don't use the band it gets in the way anyway snagging on the barrel as you try to holster it, or snagging on the sights as you try to draw. So I cut it off.

Secondly, I've had the BW with me a the range a couple of times and it's a gun everyone wants to shoot if I give them the chance. And I do . . .

Life is good.
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Old January 19, 2019, 07:56 PM   #23
Obambulate
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I'm another big fan of the Black Widow. It fits my hand perfectly and I shoot it well. Just the right size for pocket carry, IMO. The Pug is nice also, a solid little thing, but I don't shoot it as well as the Widow.
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