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Old January 1, 2019, 02:19 AM   #1
PushPuller
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New production M1 Carbine

Hi everybody. Ever since I was little I've liked M1 carbines. Several family members carried one in the service throughout the 40s and 50s and I've always been intrigued by them. Fairly recently I saw that Kahr is making several versions under the Auto-Ordnance name as new productions. I haven't been able to find many reviews that shed positive light on the M1 carbine but all the bad reviews seem to be issues that go back to its original production and isn't necessarily a new problem.


Unfortunately I don't have access to an original or a repro M1 carbine to compare, and to be honest I have zero experience with one physically. Do any of you have experience or opinions to offer about the new M1 carbines?


I always hear online that these guns have never been reliable, but obviously they were at least reliable enough at some point in time. What is the definition of a reliable m1?


I don't really have a purpose for this potential addition other than its a rifle that is under the pressure limits for my local indoor range.
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Old January 1, 2019, 02:48 AM   #2
tangolima
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It is all hearsay. Early production was cheap but lousy. Recent production has been decent, but cheap it is no more.

I myself thought of getting a new one. But after comparing prices, I ended up buying an used IBM. No regret at all. The new one costs more and has zero history.

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Old January 1, 2019, 09:52 AM   #3
PushPuller
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Quote:
I myself thought of getting a new one. But after comparing prices, I ended up buying an used IBM. No regret at all. The new one costs more and has zero history.

What kind of reliability issues have you experienced if any?
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Old January 1, 2019, 12:00 PM   #4
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While I have a real GI '43 NPM M1 Carbine, it's too good of condition and too valuable to shoot so in 2012 I got a NIB AO carbine. Best thing I've done as it's a gem. Significantly more accurate than my GI Carbine even with it's terrific condition barrel and lightly used action.

My AO is a shooter I don't have to worry about ruining a piece of history if it breaks a part, however, 6+ years and over 5K rds and it still runs like a top. Reliable as heck, it comes with a M2 type mag release so you can shoot either 15rd or 30rd mags right out of the box without issues. I only changed one thing on mine. I swapped out the flip rear sight for a Type II adjustable rear sight because I like what's on my NPM. All in all, it's a keeper and a great addition to my collection.

Other than that, I just keep it clean and lubed and have a ball with it. My wife loves it as well so it's our HD carbine over an AR or my Mini-14 because the blast and flash of the 30 Carbine rd is much less and with a max engagement range of like 35 ft, 30rds of my 110grn JSP, 1930fps handloads are more than enough.
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Old January 1, 2019, 01:00 PM   #5
tangolima
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PushPuller View Post
What kind of reliability issues have you experienced if any?
Auto ordnance started making m1 carbine before year 2000, possibly in 1998. It got my attention and seriously considered getting one. It was sold at about half of today's price. I didn't go forward as the review at the time was not favorable at all. A lot of feeding and ejection problem. The recent production doesn't have those complains anymore, but it costs a lot more.

So I don't really have first hand experience with a new one. My IBM is a Korean war vintage. I don't have any problem with it.

-TL

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Old January 1, 2019, 01:36 PM   #6
ratshooter
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These guys are also making a new M-1 reproduction rifle. They had some early problems but as long as the serial number is above 1200 you shouldn't have any issues with them.

https://www.inland-mfg.com/Inland-Carbines/M1-1945.html
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Old January 1, 2019, 06:56 PM   #7
tsillik
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for 1100 dollars for a reproduction carbine you can buy an awful nice original for that kind of money. terry
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Old January 1, 2019, 07:33 PM   #8
amd6547
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Ive used a CMP-acquired Inland Carbine as a home defense longarm since I got it several years ago. I just love the Carbine and it’s round.
With the recent value appreciation on GI carbines, I was considering replacing it in the HD role with a 9mm carbine, probably the Ruger.
While looking for a Ruger, I stumbled into a slightly used Auto Ordnance Carbine. It was like new, and was the version they made with a Choate folding stock...for less than the Ruger.
It looked good in all the right places, so I took a chance.
Took it to the rifle club and put over 100rds through it. I shot FMJ, as well as SP and Critical Defense. I used GI and Korean mags, both 15rd and 30rd.
One GI mag had a weak spring..twice, it didn’t get the round up to the bolt fast enough to feed.
Everything else worked perfectly.
Did some rapid fire at 25yds, which was a blast. Double taps are very fast with the Carbine.
In accuracy testing, it was hitting slightly right of POA, evident at both 25yds and 100yds.
I’ve shot smaller groups with my Inland at 100yds, but the Auto Ordnance did ok. I did notice that the band spring wasn’t engaging the band properly, allowing the band to move forward. When I got home from the range, I filed the hook on the band spring a little deeper, and bent it out a little to assure solid engagement with the band. This, and the loose fitting of the front of the Choate stock at the barrel channel may have affected the group size.
I’ve heard that GI wood can be used with the Auto Ordnance, with fitting. I plan to try my Inland’s stock to see what the situation is. If it looks doable, I will pick up a used GI M2 stock.
I like the Choate...it locks up tight when open and shoots well. It also makes the Carbine a racquet case friendly 27.5” long.
But I really like the feel and pointability of the GI Carbine wood stock.

In any case, my Inland gets a rest, and the Auto Ordnance has moved into the HD role.
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Old January 2, 2019, 02:04 PM   #9
T. O'Heir
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New production M1 Carbines are way over priced.
Try and find a Plainfield Machine Co.(Pre-Iver Johnson) Carbine. Have had mine for 40 plus years and haven't done or required anything be done but a bath in all that time. It'll shoot circles around any Mini-14 with my hand loaded 110 grain HPs(IMR4227).
Plainfields are exact copies vs some of the other commercial Carbines. Milsurp parts, that you'll probably not need, fit.
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Old January 2, 2019, 08:29 PM   #10
AK103K
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I just saw a nice, original early (original "flip" sight, push button safety, and no bayo lug) Inland at a shop today that had a $1200 price tag on it. I almost bought it too.

I already have four GI carbines, I really dont need another, but I can still hear it calling me now.

I have three Inlands, and a Winchester. All are WWII era guns and all went through the arsenal update after the war. The Winchester is a "Blue Sky" import. All had decent to real nice stocks, one even came with a repro paratrooper stock (dont bother). All looked to be in good shape mechanically as well.

I picked up all four this past year. Paid $650 for the one of the Inlands, and right around $1000 for each of the others. So, at least around here, $1000 is probably a pretty good "average" for a decent GI gun. Knowing that, I dont think Id spend $1000 on one of the "new" guns.

As far as reliability goes, all four of my guns were not at all reliable when I first got them. Constant cycling and ejection problems.

The Blue Sky gun sheared the charging handle off the slide within the first 100 rounds, which I really wasnt expecting and wasnt to happy about. Is what it is I guess.

After replacing the slide on the Winchester, and replacing the recoils springs, rebuilding all the bolts on all of them, and replacing the GI mags with new Korean mags, they all seem to be right at about 95% now. I usually shoot about 100 rounds at an outing, and I still get on average, one or two stoppages each time Im out. Sometimes, I dont have any.

The Korean mags are good mags, and seem to work a lot better than the GI mags I have. Seems when I do have a problem, its usually one of the GI mags I still use thats in the gun when trouble happens. Not a regular thing, but they do seem to be the ones when it chokes.

All four guns are accurate enough, and from a rest, shoot about 3-4" at 100 yards. Three of the four needed there front sights filed down to get the guns properly zeroed so the rear sight was correct. The forth actually shoot a little high. I also had to restake two of the rear sights, as someone had drifted them out of the staking for some reason.

Parts are readily available online from Numrich/Gun Parts. It costs about $50 for the recoil spring and the bolt parts. A repro bolt tool ( you need one to change out the parts) goes for $35.

For about the same money, you can get the real thing, and a decent one at that.

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Old January 3, 2019, 04:49 PM   #11
amd6547
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If anybody cares, I took apart my GI Inland and new Auto Ordnance today, and tried putting the AO in the GI stock.
It seemed to bind around the trigger housing, preventing it from fully lowering in to place
I have no doubt I could make a wood stock fit with a little work.
Now, to find a good deal on a "nothing special" GI M2 Birch stock
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Old January 3, 2019, 05:29 PM   #12
AK103K
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Try "What a Country". The usually have a bunch of surplus Carbine stocks.

Some are in better shape than others and thats reflected in the price.

https://whatacountry.com/

The fit of the trigger groups in the originals seem to be a bit loose and they rattle a lot. One of my Inlands had the trigger group bedded in the stock by a previous owner, and I much prefer that. On the others, I just put a small piece of skateboard tape on the trigger group in a couple of spots, and get the same result.

The guns seem to shoot fine with the rattling around, but it just bugs the crap out of me.
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Old January 3, 2019, 05:37 PM   #13
COSteve
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The AOs don't cost anywhere near $1000 and they are brand new. Bud's is selling some NIB for $770, delivered. When you consider that a gently used one can be had for the $600s, that's a lot of ammo you could buy with the extra $400-$500.
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Old January 5, 2019, 02:45 AM   #14
PushPuller
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Thanks everybody for the help! I think I'm gonna be patient and keep my eyes open for something that looks like the right fit. Iv wanted one for so long I don't think I can rationalize any reason not to get one.


Quote:
Bud's is selling some NIB for $770, delivered.
These are the ones I saw for sale, and within $50 each way of that price on a couple other websites. I was wondering if they were $300 junkier or just $300 less vintage.
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Old January 5, 2019, 11:08 AM   #15
kraigwy
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If at all possible I would go to the GI Carbine. Besides shootable, there is the history aspect. My father loved the Carbine, to him it was perfect in the Burma Jungles where one was lucky to be able to see past 25 yards. He also carried one in Korea. I dont know what happened to it but there was a picture of him killing a water buffalo with his.

In his honor I bought an Underwood from the CMP. I shoot it in competition, (CMP GSM Carbine Matches), Made in 1943 my Underwood still shoots.


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Old January 12, 2019, 08:45 AM   #16
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Wow, I was not aware the ole war baby was going for so much or the clones were selling for that much. I have 2 GI Carbines and my wife and I love to shoot them, I also have an extra receiver that I am going to have Fulton Armory install a barrel on so I can assemble my 3rd shooter gun. May have to retire my GI and just use my new barreled gun???

As far as the OP question, I haven't had any experience with the new AO guns but know a guy with one and he likes his just fine and shoots his often.
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Old January 14, 2019, 05:10 PM   #17
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My only AO Carbine was bought brand-new in a Memphis store, "Guns And Ammo" in '07, required a visit to the AO factory after something caused the bolt carrier's movement to begin seizing. It ended up locked up as if it were glued shut.

Probably should have kept it after the return from the factory, but being very late (age 52) with the "gun bug", also learned about Mini 14s and SKS, all of which felt much more rugged (partly because they are larger rifles).

The GI Carbines I handled--at that time--felt and sounded more rugged than the brand-new 2007 AO Carbine I briefly owned.

Last edited by Ignition Override; January 15, 2019 at 01:38 AM.
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