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Old December 2, 2018, 11:31 AM   #26
USNRet93
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From a CO Attorney

Gent who practices in CO and CCW holder.
[QUOTE]

“The use of a handgun in self-defense is presumptively a crime either assault with a deadly weapon or murder depending on the seriousness of the injuries inflicted. At that point the police investigate the case from that perspective and the handgun will be taken into evidence as part of the investigation. There are three affirmative defenses that apply. Defense of self, defense of others, and defense of property which all can be asserted in defense of the crime or crimes charged. The burden is on the person using the gun to assert those defenses and in many cases the DA will not proceed with the case. Assuming the defenses are successful trial or the prosecution is convinced not to bring the case, the handgun will be returned to the owner. There is no free opportunity to shoot anyone and it is an affirmative defense to a presumptive crime that this needs to
be considered.”
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Old December 2, 2018, 11:51 AM   #27
Bartholomew Roberts
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There are basically a few instances where police might take guns:

1) If they believe you are a danger to yourself or others due to intoxication, mental illness, etc.
2) If they are taking them as part of a protective order or indictment.
3) If the guns (or anything, such as computers or cellphone) are evidence in a criminal investigation.

In each case, there will be a different criteria to get the guns returned and your individual law enforcement agency and prosecutor’s policies will play a big role. In some of the stricter areas, it can be very difficult to get guns returned from evidence even when you are guilty of no crime. I’m aware of cases where it took as long as three years.
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Old December 2, 2018, 12:10 PM   #28
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While I can't add to the likelihood of police practices, I will say that you should carry the pistol you feel most comfortable with in terms of defending your life. If that's your cheapest pistol, great. If it's your most expensive pistol, great. Every year I spend money on insurance in the event something might happen to me. If my pistol gets confiscated in the act of preserving my life or the lives of my family members, that was money well spent, whether it was $200 or $1000 dollars.

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Old December 3, 2018, 01:34 AM   #29
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I just opened this thread tonight and read the post by Wyosmith and just HAD to look that story up. I'm posting it for the rest of you because there just isn't enough humor these days. From the Casper Star Tribune, April 1, 2011.

Riverton man gets shot, faces charges
RIVERTON — Charges were filed Thursday in the St. Patrick’s Day shooting that took place in downtown Riverton — not against the shooter, but against the man who was shot in the groin.
Zechariah Apodaca, 22, of Riverton was charged with domestic battery, property destruction and simple assault. The shooter was identified only as a 41-year-old man from Lander. Authorities refused to release his identity because he’s been named a victim in the case against Apodaca.
In a media conference Wednesday afternoon at Riverton City Hall, Fremont County Attorney Brian Varn said the older man acted in self defense as Apodaca tried twice to grab his .40-caliber semi-automatic pistol. Varn said the older man had a license to carry the gun.
Varn went on to say the 44-year-old was acting as a good samaritan by trying to stop Apodaca from beating his girlfriend. The older man intervened as he walked out of the show with his family and saw Apodaca dragging the woman backward by her head and pants from the parking lot to the theater door. After telling Apodaca to stop, the 44-year-old warned he was armed.
Varn came to this conclusion, he said, from witness testimony and footage from the Gem Theater’s security camera, which was shown during the media conference. The view looks out from the backside of the lobby over the ticket and candy counters toward the two outside, glass-front doors.
From that angle, the two men were seen in the video wrestling with each other in close contact on the sidewalk in front of the theater, while about a dozen small children and a half a dozen adults milled about inside. Authorities say the scuffle lasted about two minutes and police were called by a business owner across the street who heard the shot.
Apodaca was treated and released from the Riverton hospital. The shooter was not injured in the incident and the woman involved did not break her hand as reported earlier. Her hand was injured in a previous altercation before the couple went to the movie.

Another candidate for a Darwin Award. Even though he didn't die, he surely qualifies by being removed from the gene pool.
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Old December 3, 2018, 06:13 AM   #30
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The gun goes into evidence "ALWAYS!"

Your gun will be taken into evidence every time. After the court case or if a grand jury or the prosecutor's office determines NOT to pursue the case. You might get it back. The prosecutor decides if the case does or does NOT need to go to a grand jury. That can take months or years, (usually several weeks). Eventually, provided it is a good self defense shooting, you will get the gun back. If the case does go to court, it could take YEARS! If the person you shot or shot at is still alive that person will go to court and your gun is going to part of the evidence for that trial, and that can take years. So, yeah, your gun going on a very long vacation. Plan to go buy another gun. If it's an animal attack, or just a discharge into THE GROUND (NEVER INTO THE AIR) the cops are pretty decent here. I had to put a .380 round into the dirt when someone went to hit me with a garden hoe. If I had shot into the air, the gun would have been gone. Don't skip bullets off pavement or concrete.
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Old December 3, 2018, 09:20 AM   #31
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Oklahoma prosecutors are usually prompt with their decisions involving self defense killings. In the case of the lady who killed an intruder while on the phone with 911, the prosecutor announced his justifiable homicide decision six days later.

In the case of an Ada, OK man who killed a father attempting to drown his own babies, the Pontotoc county prosecutor called the shooting justifiable homicide one month later.
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Old December 3, 2018, 10:38 AM   #32
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they will take it until the case is heard by a grand jury. depending upon their decision will be where your gun goes next.
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Old December 3, 2018, 12:33 PM   #33
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In my state, plenty of people each year use their guns in defense against critters such as bears or moose. Been a while since police insisted on charging the shooter with the whole 'discharging of a firearm within city limits'. Typically it gets referred to Fish & Wildlife dept.
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Old December 16, 2018, 01:06 PM   #34
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OK let me put on my fireproof suit. I MIGHT get flamed for this but I got to make a suggestion:

Don't put your expensive Sigs and race-tuned Kimbers on the front line as defensive guns. Get a couple of Hi Points and have one for EDC and another one for the tool kit/bug out bag etc...

Even in the most friendliest jurisdictions where the authorities would try to return your gun back to you as soon as possible after a defensive incident, it is still unlikely that someone will clean your gun for you while it sits in an evidence locker. Used ammo with corrosive primers/powder? You are going to be screwed.

I have handled Hi Points before and while they do get a lot of bad rep, they are still functioning firearms. I shot multiple mags through a Hi Point JHP .45 ACP and did not experience a single jam or malfunction. I think I sent close to 300 rounds of Winchester bulk FMJ ammo through the thing in a single setting because I was curious and wanted to do what other Hi Point reviewers have done on Youtube. It functioned fine. Then two mags of JHP and Critical Duty ammo and it still fed and cycled properly. And the accuracy was phenomenal. Shooting with two-handed grip yielded results similar to same ammo from my Kahr M1911-PKZ.

I would not hesitate to trust my life to a Hi Point if that is all I had on hand. From the reviews and from experience, the big Hi Points work better than the small ones. Stay away from the .380 and 9mm. The JHP .45 is the one everybody gives good reviews on. Their 9mm carbine may be uglier than a coughed up furball but it works really good too.

For $195 PLUS lifetime warranty it is almost too good to be true. The only thing about it that bothers me is that plastic trigger but it works and you can get an aluminum aftermarket upgrade for it if you are THAT serious about it.
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Old December 16, 2018, 01:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Don't put your expensive Sigs and race-tuned Kimbers on the front line as defensive guns. Get a couple of Hi Points and have one for EDC and another one for the tool kit/bug out bag etc...
Good grief! Do you understand that the market is flooded with options between the above choices? While I will agree that a Hi-Point is certainly much better than nothing, I would not carry one unless I had no other choice. Given the number of reasonably priced, high quality handguns designed for concealed carry, recommending a cheap, heavy pistol that is way too large for its capacity is not something that I or anyone else with any real experience would do. Now that is my not so humble opinion, do with it what you will. This is the internet after all...
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Old December 16, 2018, 01:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Good grief! Do you understand that the market is flooded with options between the above choices? While I will agree that a Hi-Point is certainly much better than nothing, I would not carry one unless I had no other choice. Given the number of reasonably priced, high quality handguns designed for concealed carry, recommending a cheap, heavy pistol that is way too large for its capacity is not something that I or anyone else with any real experience would do. Now that is my not so humble opinion, do with it what you will. This is the internet after all...
I understand. I was just listing the extreme price ranges to illustrate a point. But Glocks, S&W's and Berettas are by no means cheap either. My Kahr cost me 500 bucks when I purchased it. Many people cannot afford to drop money about here and there. All of the guns I own are heirloom grade and I intend them to far, far outlast me.

My point would be, that a gun you use for defensive situations should be a gun that you are willing to part with without too much of a heartache.
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Old December 16, 2018, 10:14 PM   #37
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For example, I just capped a possum that has been harassing my cat. in a total of about five seconds I popped it and tossed it down the street from my home. I waited an hour, then collected, bagged, and dumped it.

Dead possums on the roadside aren't unusual. Unless there was an actual witness to the shooting who reported exactly what happened, you can almost depend on no police interference. Dead possum, yeah, it's bleeding, someone heard something like a shot, but which of these fifteen houses? The only thing that could be charged here was discharging of a firearm. No criminal charges for killing the pest. Without a completely reliable eyewitness, the charges won't hold for discharging a firearm.
This is any homeowner's friend right here. Especially if you live in a suburban-nearing rural or woodsy area:



Every farm that I had been to seemed to have several good break-action or precharged-pneumatic air rifles placed in strategic locations. They have to deal with TONS of rats, mice and unwanted birds tearing up everything and ruining crops. These airguns are the nemesis of farm pests. They are quiet enough to be fully discreet and you can enjoy target practice almost everywhere.
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Last edited by Rachen; December 16, 2018 at 10:23 PM.
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Old December 19, 2018, 07:05 PM   #38
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If you discharge your firearm in an act of self-defense and the police are investigating for culpability, your weapon will be confiscated as evidence in most jurisdictions and returned to you if you’re found innocent of any wrongdoing. You can probably say bye bye to your firearm for up to year or more.
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Old January 8, 2019, 11:57 AM   #39
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Yes. Cops equate "gun" with "crime" most of the time. It's an old school police academy teaching that needs to be done with already.

You will get held at gun point, a knee in your back, handcuffed, searched, and ID'ed in most cases if you have just shot and killed someone. Self defense in our minds is still a homicide, regardless.

Then if things aren't clear enough your taken into questioning either at the station or the back of the squad car depending. By one, two, or three officers to see if the stories match each time.

Your gun is taken away 99.9% of the time. It's nearly impossible to get back. It can take as fast as 6 months to a year. Or as long as never. And when you get it back it's engraved with a serial number from the department's evidence roster.

That's after you're cleared of criminal and civil charges.

Then you could have the internal struggle of second guessing. So it's a crappy situation all around.


The best gun fight is the one we avoid.
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Old January 8, 2019, 02:40 PM   #40
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Shouldn't this be handled on a state by state, even department by department basis ? i am not a lawyer or an LEO nor do I play one on the Internet, it seems to me that clear cut legislation and regulations play a big role, as opposed to "SOPs" and "traditions."
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Old January 9, 2019, 08:50 AM   #41
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If you grab 10 officers from the same department, they'll each have their own idea of what the "SOP" is.
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Old January 9, 2019, 11:35 AM   #42
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In Pennsylvania we have a group of laws designed to protect individuals and provide guidance for court/ law enforcement. The Castle doctrine law, and stand your ground law in Pennsylvania are there for this purpose.

However, in order to determine whether the shooting was justified or not.. (when its a human target.) There needs to be an investigation. There have been cases where Someone defended their home from an intruder and they were never arrested or had their weapons confiscated. Much of that depends on the officer's understanding of what happened. It is basically at his discretion. In most cases the firearm is returned when charges are dropped. If someone invades your dwelling, and means harm to you. Or is reasonably suspected to mean harm to you or your family. You are covered by PA law. They don't have to attack you.

Also as far as animals go the same applies. Obviously animal life is not held to the same eminence as human life, but you do need to show discretion. even without a firearm you can be charged with a crime.

When I was 17 I was walking down the street in my home town in late afternoon. A german shepard came right out of his yard and bit into my leg. He bit me hard enough for several of his teeth to make it to the bone in my leg.. I punched that dog square in the head. He let go of my leg and was going to attack me again. I reared back and kicked that dog just as hard as I could in the ribs. Presumably breaking some of his ribs. The dog yelped, walked back into his yard and died right there.

The dog's owner went bat poop crazy and called the police. I waited there for the officer to come. He asked her what happened and asked me what happened. I explained the situation and he said that he felt as though I was justified in killing that animal.

The lady was angry and tried to have me arrested and complained to the cop for not doing his job after I killed her BABY.... The officer told me I was free to go, And told her to if she didn't want to have dogs that were friendly that it was best to keep them on a leash.

Even Police get put on suspension and have to hand in their weapon after shooting a suspect. A few years ago the local policeman responded to a domestic call. There was a man going out of his gord and was going to kill his girlfriend. The officer shot him dead.

From what I understand, the officer was suspended pending an investigation and some counseling.... He was returned to duty sometime later and his pistol was returned. I ran into him about a year later at a gun shop when I was looking for a new carry gun. I saw he was carrying a S&W MP and asked him how he felt about it as a carry weapon. He said... "It saved my life last year."

In my particular area, you may not be arrested or have your firearm confiscated. Its pretty rural where I live. I would always assume that if its a human life you take. You will be arrested and you will have your firearm confiscated. However that is not the case every single time
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Old January 9, 2019, 05:43 PM   #43
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I would say yes, they do.
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Old January 9, 2019, 08:55 PM   #44
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Almost always yes, it will be confiscated as evidence and returned only after one is criminally cleared of wrongdoing.
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Old January 10, 2019, 09:36 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactical Jackalope View Post
Yes. Cops equate "gun" with "crime" most of the time. It's an old school police academy teaching that needs to be done with already.

You will get held at gun point, a knee in your back, handcuffed, searched, and ID'ed in most cases if you have just shot and killed someone. Self defense in our minds is still a homicide, regardless.

Then if things aren't clear enough your taken into questioning either at the station or the back of the squad car depending. By one, two, or three officers to see if the stories match each time.

Your gun is taken away 99.9% of the time. It's nearly impossible to get back. It can take as fast as 6 months to a year. Or as long as never. And when you get it back it's engraved with a serial number from the department's evidence roster.

That's after you're cleared of criminal and civil charges.

Then you could have the internal struggle of second guessing. So it's a crappy situation all around.


The best gun fight is the one we avoid.
Little dramatic, don't you think? If LEO called to my house at 2am, and walk in to find gun on table, bad guy laying on floor, me in my jammies, hands up..don't think it'll be 'knee in back, handcuffed' gig..
Confiscate gun, probably. Me go down to station for a statement? Undoubtedly. Investigation, most assuredly but I really doubt I would be arrested. Never happened to me..probably never will..

Avoid if possible but.....Break in when you are home in middle of the night..how many here have a 'night stand' gun for this very reason? It's not there to brandish, but use. YMMV and all that.
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Colorado's “Make My Day” law gives gun owners the right to shoot and kill an intruder in self-defense if they believe the person intends to commit a crime and use physical force, “no matter how slight.” ... Under the law, fists can be deemed deadly weapons that justify shooting.
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Old January 10, 2019, 01:13 PM   #46
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If I were in involved in a shooting, the last thing I would worry about is my gun.

But, I would be worried about having all my guns seized pending the court outcome, and assuming I was justified, what is required to get back all of my guns.
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Old January 30, 2019, 05:06 PM   #47
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Good thread. To answer on this, I'd say make sure you don't have much upgrades on it or upgrades at all on the one that you'd be using. I have a couple close friends that are police officers and detectives here in Las Vegas, NV. They say, any upgraded firearm they will do best to try to confiscate for sure. Such as questioning as to why you have those upgrades done on it and such. Etc... Again, that's what they've told me. So please don't bash me on it guys. That's sort of why I keep my CCW EDC fire-arm stock.
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Old January 30, 2019, 06:01 PM   #48
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Defensive shooting involving a person, gun will always be taken as evidence. Some anti-gun jurisdictions, like Cook County, Illinois, routinely ordered "C & D" (confiscate and destroy) in any gun case, even if the charges were dismissed. Some of these ended up in the hands of judges, bailiffs or court clerks. One bailiff was actually caught illegally selling them back to the gangs out of his garage.
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Old February 1, 2019, 07:41 PM   #49
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There was a case where a man, Spencer Newcomer, killed a man in self-defense OUTSIDE of his home. He was charged with murder, the police got a warrant and seized ALL of his guns from INSIDE the home.

Part 1: https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/en/...fense-shooting
Part 2: https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/en/...-shooting-pt-2

I don't quite see the point of getting a cheap gun to save your more expensive one from confiscation. If you spend a bit more to get the best self-defense gun you can afford that fits your needs, having it stuck in a safe when a deadly force event occurs kind of defeats its purpose. In that case, why not just buy the cheaper gun and not spend the money on the more expensive one?
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Old February 3, 2019, 08:12 AM   #50
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[QUOTEIn that case, why not just buy the cheaper gun and not spend the money on the more expensive one?][/QUOTE] Several years ago, someone here (forgive me for not remembering who and giving proper credit) said about a holster "Go ahead and buy a $20.00 motorcycle helmet if you think you have a $20.00 head." Seems the same thought process applies here with firearms. A $1200 firearm for one guy may be a minor purchase , while for me- I have to study and plan very carefully for a $500 purchase.
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