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Old January 3, 2019, 03:26 AM   #26
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBorland
... but to break the SA sear, you really only move the trigger, so the SA trigger pull weight is dictated by the strength of the rebound spring only and not by the mainspring.
I hope if you think on this for a couple of minutes you will realize how incorrect it is.
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Old January 3, 2019, 08:02 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
I hope if you think on this for a couple of minutes you will realize how incorrect it is.
What, mechanistically speaking, is incorrect about it?

Try this experiment (I have): Incrementally back out the mainspring strain screw on your S&W while measuring the DA and SA pull weights. You'll note the DA pull gets lighter as the screw is backed out, of course, but the SA pull remains nearly constant (until the mainspring is nearly fully de-tensioned). Interestingly, the same can be said of the main and rebound springs, respectively.
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Old January 3, 2019, 11:19 AM   #28
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I don't have a trigger pull gauge and I've never taken measurements.

But I have replaced the stock S&W (18#) rebound spring with a Wolff 13# spring several times, and it always resulted in a very noticeable decreased DA trigger pull.
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Old January 3, 2019, 11:29 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmady
But I have replaced the stock S&W (18#) rebound spring with a Wolff 13# spring several times, and it always resulted in a very noticeable decreased DA trigger pull
I'm not saying it wouldn't. Here's what I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBorland
Swapping in just a lighter rebound spring will impact the SA weight more dramatically than the DA pull weight
In the rest of that post, I clarified that the DA trigger weight is determined by both the main and rebound springs. But...the S&W SA trigger weight is largely set by the just rebound spring, so swapping in only a lighter rebound spring will have a bigger effect on the SA trigger weight.
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Old January 3, 2019, 12:31 PM   #30
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If you wanted to shoot single-action you should buy one. Why people buy a double-action and then shoot it mostly in single-action defies logic. Learn to shoot double-actions how they were designed to be used...in double-action.
I guess you never heard of the single action only versions of the Model 14 that S&W produced for a while.

They were meant for Bullseye shooting.

As has been stated, in Bullseye, when revolvers were still common, they were always fired single action.

It would take an exceptional shooter to achieve the accuracy shooting double action that can be achieved shooting a double action revolver in single action mode.

Defensive drills are one thing.

Precision accuracy is something else.
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Old January 3, 2019, 12:53 PM   #31
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Is it really broke ??

To date, we have not defined the problem, only a symptom. We do not know if it's broke and yet we are trying to fix it. In my previous life, I was a trouble-shooter and I first definee what the problem was before we could start the fix. Granted, there are some preliminary check we could make that would help us one way or another. …..

Frankly, right now, I don't feel that there is a mechanical problem.. ….

Be Safe !!!
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Old January 3, 2019, 01:04 PM   #32
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"...you should buy one..." It's called Double Action for a reason. Lets you shoot by just pulling the trigger or by cocking the hammer. Lots and lots of "DA" revolvers are fired in single action in NRA/ISS target shooting every day. Hammer fall is different with an SA only revolver too.
"...sneezed it would go off..." That's not normal. May be an over done trigger job. If you're not comfortable with it, get it fixed.
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Old January 3, 2019, 04:01 PM   #33
NoSecondBest
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Per T.O'Heir:
Quote:
If you're not comfortable with it, get it fixed.
That's actually pretty good advice. Even if there isn't a problem, and I suspect there isn't, don't use a gun if you're not comfortable with the trigger. I've had custom guns built and had others ask to shoot them. Many times they would fire the gun before they were ready. The truth is, triggers this light don't really even help your shooting much, if at all. Any trigger under three pounds with no perceptible travel on a handgun that breaks cleanly will do all you'll ever need it to do. Really.
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Old January 3, 2019, 04:10 PM   #34
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Quote:
If you wanted to shoot single-action you should buy one. Why people buy a double-action and then shoot it mostly in single-action defies logic.
As others have opined, for many, many years, serious Bullseye competitors used d/a revolvers with iron sights in matches in the s/a mode, including the Timed and Rapid Fire stages, mostly because the s/a trigger pull was/is so much better suited for precision target shooting. Da revolvers could be converted to s/a only but the practice never became popular.
For the last couple of decades or so, the revolver (and iron sights) have become increasingly passé in Bullseye shooting, giving way to autos and optics. I still compete in some matches with double-action revolvers and irons but I'm long past having any realistic chance of taking home a trophy, no matter what I'm shooting.
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Old January 3, 2019, 05:07 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahoo
To date, we have not defined the problem, only a symptom. We do not know if it's broke and yet we are trying to fix it.
Which is why the thread started off telling the OP they need to actually measure the SA pull weight with a gauge and to be sure there's no push-off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T. O'Heir
It's called Double Action for a reason. Lets you shoot by just pulling the trigger or by cocking the hammer.
Just being nitpicky, but AFAIK, "Double Action" refers to the "two" functions the trigger performs in that mode - setting up the action to fire (i.e. rotates the cylinder while lifting the hammer) and breaking the sear. "Single Action" refers to the "single" function of the trigger in that mode - breaking the sear (the action is manually set up to fire). "DA/SA" applied to the revolver itself refers to the ability to shoot DA or SA.

At any rate, IMO, the complete revolver shooter knows when each mode is best, and is practiced and proficient in both.
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Old January 3, 2019, 07:51 PM   #36
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Quote:
Is it really that hard for you to understand that someone might want a gun that fires SA and DA?
When there are both commonly available, yes it is. Many people who buy double actions never acquire the skills to shoot them effectively in double-action. Instead, they persist in reaching over the awkward hump on the double action. Nevertheless, its their gun...they can do what they want.
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Old January 4, 2019, 09:10 AM   #37
buck460XVR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahermit View Post
Nevertheless, its their gun...they can do what they want.
Yet you insist on multiple tirades chastising others about their choice and how they wish to use it, while adding nothing of any legitimate use to the thread.

I have a P.C. action tuned, 629 Magnum Hunter with a SA trigger similar to what the OP described......at least that is how is seems compared to some other triggers I have on other revolvers. Thing is, that gun is the most accurate gun I own, and I keep my fingers off the bugger stick till I want to shoot.
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Old January 4, 2019, 09:36 AM   #38
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This thing has gone off the rails. Sorry OP, but it happens.
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Old January 4, 2019, 12:02 PM   #39
Mike Irwin
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First off, drop the snark, Gentlemen.

As in NOW.

I suggest you both walk away from the discussion path you're currently on.
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Old January 4, 2019, 12:05 PM   #40
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"That would be true if there was no hump for the web of the hand. What single action do you know that has that hump?"

Well, the prawl is VERY evident on the S&W New Model Number 3. Which was the most successful target revolver of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.


The prawl was also incorporated in any number of S&W's late 19th century single action breaktop revolvers.
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Old January 4, 2019, 12:12 PM   #41
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"I guess you never heard of the single action only versions of the Model 14 that S&W produced for a while."

Colt also produced a single action version of their Officer's Model Match revolver in both .22 and .38 Spl.
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Old January 4, 2019, 12:33 PM   #42
Drm50
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I have close to 50 S&W revolvers. All adjustable sight models and older P&Rs or earlier. I
could count on my fingers how many times I have shot any of these revolvers in double action mode. My reason to buy S&Ws was for accuracy and quality not combat shooting.
I have 3screw Rugers that were bought new in early 60s and have had trigger jobs. They
are slick, still a harder gun to shoot because of long hammer fall. In fact I would say anyone
who is good with a single action will do even better with a S&W in SA mode. Top of the line
Colt DAs were same way. I buy a lot of S&Ws and all are used old models. I have bought a
few that have been tuned with aftermarket spring kits but have never run across one that
has been modified in lock work. Anything is possible though, a look under the side plate wouldn't hurt. I don't buy 586-686 because they are to new but my rule on buying S&Ws
would cover them also. If screw heads are messed up, I don't look further.
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Old January 4, 2019, 12:35 PM   #43
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Single action is usually for precision shooting, double action for action/defensive shooting. With practice you can shoot very well in double action mode. Some of the new S&W revolvers have a very heavy double action trigger pull and the heavy pull makes accurate shooting difficult. The pull can be made lighter but it may cause misfiring. I have a 625 that is modified for action shooting that is so light it is only 100% with Federal primers.
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Old January 5, 2019, 10:20 PM   #44
41 Magnum
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Quote:
I purchased a 686 today. I was dry firing the 686 and in single action it felt real lite. I felt if i sneezed it would go off.

If you wanted to shoot single-action you should buy one. Why people buy a double-action and then shoot it mostly in single-action defies logic. Learn to shoot double-actions how they were designed to be used...in double-action.


Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I buy a double action revolver because I can !! It's a choice each person must make for themselves !
I also own many S.A. revolvers & am quite fond of them also, but that being said, a single action is just not the best choice for a carry revolver.
I like to carry a D.A. revolver as my daily carry gun at times, and am quite capable of using it to good effect in D.A. mode ! However, I would deem it irresponsible to use that same revolver in D.A. mode while deer hunting with
it, as I am quite sure most any responsible hunter would agree !!
So, that being said, anyone has the option to buy what he likes and use it as he chooses.

Jim
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Old January 6, 2019, 09:59 PM   #45
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Gun shoots like a dream. There is nothing wrong with the gun. I will not go off in SA if I sneeze. I shot 50 38 special rnds and 50 rnds of 357 158 grain and it begged for more.
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