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Old December 26, 2018, 06:28 AM   #1
tutz724
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Marlin 1895 front sight red loctite removal

Recently got some XS sights for my Marlin 1895, 45-70. Very excited to get them on, however, it would appear that the factory assembled the front sight to the barrel with red loctite as I can not get it to budge. Did a little research and figured I'd take a torch to it to try to loosen the loctite up, but after getting it and the surrounding area of the barrel fairly hot (what I would say is 550 degrees) I still cannot budge the screw.

I'm thinking maybe it didn't get it hot enough for long enough, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to damage the barrel if I did so. Tried doing research on heating gun barrels and the tempering and so forth, but couldn't find much on exactly how far to push the heat.

I do some knife making so I recognize annealing discoloration and so forth. It looks like a small portion of the barrel may have discolored to a purplish blue. How hot can I take it without causing damage? Have I done any damage already?

Any other ideas for getting this damn screw out?

Thanks.
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Old December 26, 2018, 06:42 AM   #2
TJB101
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Would a soldering iron applied to the head of the screw work?
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Old December 26, 2018, 10:17 AM   #3
NoSecondBest
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A soldering iron will work without all the excessive heat you've applied to the barrel. It's too bad you over heated the barrel and discolored it. I think a decent gunsmith would have done this work for very little money. You might still want to consider that option. I've watched them remove front sights using just a soldering iron and the appropriate sized driver to remove the screws. They make it look pretty easy. Red Loc-Tite will get pretty soft at relatively low temps.
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Old December 26, 2018, 11:02 AM   #4
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hmmm,,,just curious ,,,when did marlin start putting screws in the front sight,,,i have 3 a 444,,a 38-55,,a 45-70 and 2 44mag a 357,,a 22,,they are all drifted into a dove tail,,,no set screw,,,,never had one move around or fall out

is that something the remlins have?? or something they are doing now??

guess its kinda like the safety thing,,,fixing something that aint broke

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Old December 26, 2018, 11:21 AM   #5
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Quote:
hmmm,,,just curious ,,,when did marlin start putting screws in the front sight,,,i have 3 a 444,,a 38-55,,a 45-70 and 2 44mag a 357,,a 22,,they are all drifted into a dove tail,,,no set screw,,,,never had one move around or fall out

is that something the remlins have?? or something they are doing now??

guess its kinda like the safety thing,,,fixing something that aint broke

Some of the Marlin big bores including 45-70 use front sight ramps, while others use only the dovetail. My 1895 CBA (Remington made) is dovetail. My 336SS 30-30 uses the ramp. As to using red or blue lock tight, or an equivalent, it's rather common, screws or dovetails. Personally, I've used it sometimes, and sometimes not.
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Old December 26, 2018, 12:08 PM   #6
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I've never done this specific task, but have used soldering irons to remove red Loctite before. Soldering irons can provide temperatures above 600F but it is very concentrated and less likely to cause other issues. I suppose you could go buy a soldering iron or, as mentioned above, consult a gunsmith. Good luck...
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Old December 26, 2018, 12:15 PM   #7
LineStretcher
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Red Loctite only needs to be heated to 200 degrees for it to melt. A soldering iron on the head of the screw or a heat gun is all that's needed to soften it sufficiently for removal. There are two screws on the front sight, heat them up individually and use the correct width and thickness screw driver to remove them.

If you are sure you did not exceed 550 degrees, then your barrel is fine. You can remove the discoloration with simichrome or similar automotive chrome polish. simichrome will polish but will not scratch or remove or polish out the brushed finish.
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Old December 26, 2018, 07:47 PM   #8
tutz724
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So I just got home and tried the soldering iron method. Didn't seem to work. Upon further inspection of the barrel, I don't see any abnormal discoloration. I'm almost thinking the cleaning oil may have discolored?

I'm definitely not too proud to go to a gunsmith, especially when it comes to nice rifles and proper experience. And I don't mind paying for service. I just like to attempt things that seem easy enough. I also don't want to take something buggard up to a gunsmith and expect him to fix a mistake. I just wonder what I'm not doing that a gunsmith would do differently?

If a gunsmith is going to be applying heat, that doesn't sound like something I'm not more than capable of. I read somewhere that when loctite is heated to where it is loose it will give a distinct odor. I haven't really smelled anything other than what I would say was Hoppes no. 9 burning off.

Is it possible I'm just not being patient enough with the heat? I held the soldering iron on the screw for a solid 5 minutes. Soldering iron is at least 212 degrees because it's sizzling water off a rag. If I were to guess I'd say it's in the neighborhood of 400+ because when unplugged it sizzled water for a good minute or so before cooled.
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Old December 26, 2018, 07:50 PM   #9
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Once you heat the loctite to free it do you have to take the screw out immediately or is it no longer adhesive at that point?
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Old December 26, 2018, 08:42 PM   #10
NoSecondBest
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It shouldn't take anywhere near five minutes to heat the screw and the loctite holding it in place. You do have to take the screw out immediately upon heating. Perhaps the screw is just very tight? Make sure you are using the correct sized driver tip and make sure the end of the barrel is secure when you're turning the driver. This screw should come out somewhat easily at this point. Make sure you're applying a lot of downward pressure on the driver and don't be afraid to put some torque in the driver at this point. Again, MAKE SURE YOU'RE USING A GOOD FITTING TIP ON YOUR DRIVER. I've seen many screws removed that were held in with red loctite....which isn't the first choice to use on these screws by the way. Use blue or purple and you don't need to crank the snot out of the screw to hold it in place. Let the loctite do the work. Just not red. Give it another try.
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Old December 26, 2018, 09:17 PM   #11
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So...this barrel has a ramp screwed to the barrel and then the sight is dove tailed into the ramp

So I guess my next question would be does the sight manufacturer make an insert for the ramp??? To replace the existing sight in the ramp???

I would think you have put plenty of heat on that screw to make the loctite come loose....as mentioned make sure the driver bit fits the screw slot...lots of down pressure

An old mechanic buddy of mine liked to put bees wax on stuck screws after the heat

Have you tried any kind of penetrating oil on it after the heat??? Heat it and give it a shot of oil while twisting

Also while twisting tap the end of the driver....sometime that little shock will get it turning

Sorry for the confusion...guess I have seen ramps and hoods on some of these rifles

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Old December 27, 2018, 08:37 AM   #12
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I would pit Kroil on it overnight and try in the morning. As mentioned heat much over 200F will actually swell the barrel and sight together. If anything the sight will heat up faster than the barrel locking it into place tighter due to the additional heat sink mass of the barrel. The sight and barrel should have the same CTE and grow tother after The first few mins with a torch.

Last ditch attempt I would try using a hacksaw perpendicular to the barrel. Slit the sight halfway down and attenpt to drive with a large punch and a 4 lb hammer.

In a former life I removed stuck metal objects from dovetails with a pneumatic jack hammer and hydraulics (massive dovetails).
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Old December 27, 2018, 12:06 PM   #13
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Sweet odor

Loctite and other anerobic thread sealants I have worked with all have a very distinct odor when heated.

It's a rather hard to describe odor, but it does smell sweet. If you have some Locktite apply it to something else let it set up, then heat it with your soldering iron. No question if your nose is above, you will smell it when you get it hot enough.

Loctite comes in a LOT of varieties. For guns I would go no further than blue which is a medium strength removable thread locker. There is also purple which is made specifically for small fasteners.

I would guess that 3-400 is hot enough for the common varieties of Loctite. There are high heat varieties of loctite. Don't know those specs.

Sorry can't think of another smell that is similar. It's rather an unusual odor.
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Old December 27, 2018, 04:06 PM   #14
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I use a common heat gun in my shop when a customer comes in with screws that have thread locker on them. It is difficult to damage the steel with a heat gun.

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Old December 28, 2018, 09:41 PM   #15
tutz724
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Well, the soldering iron and a vice worked beautifully on one of the screws, but the one that got stripped is now stripped worse. Tried a screw extractor and still no luck. Probably a real bonehead move, but at this point it looks like a Dremel to cut away the front ramp and try vice grips is my best move.

Really wish I had come here prior to starting this little project, but I guess with mistakes we gain knowledge. I'm pretty disappointed and hope I don't end up damaging my rifle, but hopefully someone can learn from my mistakes via a Google search that will bring them here.

Thanks for all the help.
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Old December 28, 2018, 11:00 PM   #16
tutz724
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WOW! In the most desperate of fashion I decided to prep for a drill and tap and ended up getting the buggar with a drill. First the sight cane off and then I left hand drilled the shank and "pop"! It just released.

This was by no means a pro gunsmith job, but I threaded the new screw in the hole and it's like butter. Clean the ok'd thread lock out of the hole and I'm in good shape!

Definitely a lesson learning experience!
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Old December 29, 2018, 12:01 AM   #17
tutz724
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Final thoughts on this:

The XS sights look great without firing a shot through them. Also, the factory sights had me maxed out and still 6 inches low. I can already see these brought the sight picture up to where I have plenty of adjustment either way.

not complicated job, and I'm sure I made it much more complicated with lack of knowledge, but definitely worth the payoff.

Thanks again!
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Old December 30, 2018, 11:06 PM   #18
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.....
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not complicated job, and I'm sure I made it much more complicated with lack of knowledge....
Welcome to my world.
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