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Old June 21, 2018, 11:52 AM   #1
litenite99
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IDPA CCP Gun Recommendations

I shot IDPA, and due to work i had to take some time away for the last couple years. I recently got back to it , and i have always shot in the SSP division. I am very interested in shooting CCP, but when i read the new rule book i noticed that the allowed dimensions have changed.... It seems that most of the guns that use to fit in the box no longer qualify for CCP, so im looking for any recommendations for a new CCP gun. i have been looking up dimensions and everything is so close! I'm pretty close to buying an officail box from IDPA and taking it to the gun store with me... I do curretly own a springfield xd service 4" model that i had planned on using unitl i read the rules... any help would be appreciated.
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Old June 21, 2018, 12:27 PM   #2
Jim Watson
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A. Be semi-automatic.
B. Use 9 mm (9x19) or larger cartridges.
C. Barrel length 4 3/8" or less.
D. The unloaded firearm with the heaviest magazine must weigh 38.00 oz. or less.
E. The firearm with the largest magazine inserted must fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 7 ¾” x 5 3/8” x 1 3/8”.

Looks like yours, cataloged at 5.5" tall is 1/8" over. Wonder if it would go in at a tilt.
Springer has a "shorten grip" option on their order form, but tit does not say by how much or what they do to the magazine.
http://www.springerprecision.com/home.html

The Box was supposedly drawn around the Glock 19, so anything in that size range will do. I

shot last weekend with a SA Ultra Compact and only wished for more sight radius, a la Compact.

I would check out the M&P 2.0 Compact 4 inch, too.
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Old June 21, 2018, 12:48 PM   #3
litenite99
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Thanks Jim... I have been researching dimensions on guns for a week now. I didnt even think about the M&P. I own a performance center shield that is my carry gun and i love it! I also wondered the same thing about tilting the XD in the box. We dont have a box at our local club matches for me to try with. i dont want to purchase and train with something i cant use when i decide to go to a bigger match. i had been looking into some of the 1911's on the market too. I guess one lesson that i have learned from shooting IDPA is that weight also helps to mitigate recoil, so with that in mind i was on the thought process of the heaviest legal gun i could find for CCP.
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Old June 21, 2018, 04:36 PM   #4
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this is why i made a box for my gun shop. dimensions are exactly on spec.
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Old June 22, 2018, 10:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
The Box was supposedly drawn around the Glock 19, so anything in that size range will do.
The box is actually considerably larger than that.
A full-sized Commander will fit, if you use flush-fit mags and G.I. sights; most people would not consider that a compact gun.

I bought a S&W model 539 to use in CCP, based on the original box dimensions, and the "four inch barrel" was actually 4.12", which was slightly too long.
The revised box resulted in the barrel length being OK, but the height was then a little too much. The rare, fixed-sight version might be just right.

In 1911 terms, you want a Commander-length barrel and compact-length frame, which leaves enough room for bigger sights, a magwell funnel and magazine basepads.
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Old June 22, 2018, 12:46 PM   #6
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confused

I thought "the box" was framed around the 1911 full size, thus leading to the creation of the G34 family? Are there different boxes for different classes?
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Old June 22, 2018, 12:59 PM   #7
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Oh, yes.
There used to be a single box, for use across the three auto-pistol divisions that existed in IDPA.
Today, we still have the original box for the three original divisions, plus we have separate box dimensions for Back-Up Gun, and one for Compact Carry Pistol.

And, the guns not only have to fit in the box, but the barrel length has to be in compliance, too. For instance, my Colt .380 will fit in the BUG box, but the gun is not legal because the barrel exceeds the limit.

There are different barrel length limits for BUG revolver and BUG semiauto.

The new boxes also have a shallower depth.
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Last edited by RickB; June 22, 2018 at 01:19 PM.
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Old June 22, 2018, 03:21 PM   #8
litenite99
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Thanks for a great point Rick. I really had not considered the modifications and the impact to the height of the gun!!! I guess I'm used to the SSP class, and dont think about it much.
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Old June 22, 2018, 03:27 PM   #9
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Actually Rick, since you commented, I wanted to ask a question. As far as SSP division goes... the rules are pretty clear about external modifications to your gun. I did pose the question at our last match and no one seemed to sure... if I install an aftermarket trigger bar that is obviously completely inside the firearm and not visible, but it results in the trigger being further back in the guard than factory is that acceptable?
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Old June 22, 2018, 03:52 PM   #10
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"Internal action work may be used to enhance trigger pull as long as safety is maintained (no visible external modifications allowed)."

There must be aftermarket trigger kits that include factory Glock bits to maintain SSP legality?
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Old June 23, 2018, 01:20 PM   #11
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Rick, I have a springfield XDM 5.25. Two companies sell aftermarket trigger kits for them, Powder precision and springer precision. powder precision's kit has an aftermarket trigger with a external stop on the backside of the trigger itself, which is illegal due to a "visible" modification. Springer precision creates a shorter pull and quicker reset with a modified trigger bar, which while not visible, will more than likely result in the trigger being visibly further back in the trigger guard than a factory gun. so my question at the end of the day is will anyone consider the trigger being located visibly further back as an externally visible modification, even though the only parts changed were internal..... it seemed to be a grey area to me, and I try to stay out of grey areas but those are the only two alternatives to trigger enhancements that shorten pull and reset length.
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Old June 23, 2018, 04:21 PM   #12
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boxes

Thanks. I dabble locally in IDPA, but an not a student or a threat to a really good shooter. Rules have changed, obviously. Figures, I just got a grip on the old ones.
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Old July 9, 2018, 02:48 PM   #13
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I just saw this thread, and I hoped it would give me an answer but I guess I'm dense.

I'm considering trying IDPA for the first time, after having participated in some informal competitions (non-sanctioned) at the local range where I shoot. I'd like to know what IDPA class (division) the following pistols would fit in:
  • Single stack, full-size 1911, .45 ACP (unmodified)
  • Double stack, full-size 1911 .45 ACP (unmodified)
  • Single stack, Commander-size 1911, .45 ACP (unmodified)
  • Double stack, Commander-size 1911 (Para P13.45), .45 ACP (unmodified)

Can someone help me understand the classifications?
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Old July 9, 2018, 03:33 PM   #14
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They are all legal, based on the limited info, for both Enhanced Service Pistol (ESP) and Custom Defensive Pistol (CDP).

Since the capacity limit for ESP is ten rounds, and for CDP, eight, the high-cap P13 would be better suited than the others for ESP, but since ESP was also developed for the power level of 9mm, no .45 is going to be truly competitive in ESP.

EDIT: The P13 might also fit in the Compact Carry Pistol (CCP) box, since the grip frame is slightly shorter than a full-length 1911 frame, but, you would again be playing against shooters with similar-sized 9mms.

All guns chambered in .45 ACP are going to be best suited for CDP.

The original IDPA box, which all guns used in both CDP and ESP must fit, is large enough for a 5" 1911 with extended basepads on the magazines, and while there is a weight limit, no stock gun should approach the limit.
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Last edited by RickB; July 9, 2018 at 03:41 PM.
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Old July 9, 2018, 04:11 PM   #15
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Rick, I just re-read the rules on the IDPA web site. I don't see any mention of magazine capacity limit in either CDP or CCP, but I keep hearing that CDP is limited to 8+1. If so, where does that come from? And if that's correct, could I shoot a P13 (which I already own) and only load 8 rounds, or is it strictly limited to single stacks with 8-round magazines?

If it's limited to 8-round magazines -- what happens to the 9mm 1911s, which generally have 9-round mags?

I don't expect to be competing anywhere near a national level, so shooting a .45 against 9mms isn't an issue. I do own a 9mm 1911, but it's not a pistol I'd care to shoot in competition. I have a couple of 1911s in .45 that I could shoot, with the preferred choice being the P13.45 so, in the spirit of "run what ya brung" I'm trying to understand where the guns I own would fit -- not looking to buy a new (to me) gun to fit myself into a preconceived division.
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Old July 9, 2018, 06:22 PM   #16
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there is no magazine limit, but you can only load to 'division capacity', which is 8+1 for CDP and CCP. so if you have a gun that other wise meets specs on size, weight, caliber, and it has magazines that hold more than 8, you can only load 8 into them.

i have a Px4 compact in 9mm that fits into CCP, it has 15 round magazines, but i can only put 8+1 into them for a match.
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Old July 10, 2018, 12:16 AM   #17
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It appears that a Para P13.45 could go into ESP, CDP or CCP. However, CDP requires ammunition with a power factor of at least 165. Since my heart operation four years ago I've been loading my plinking ammo a bit on the milder side, and I don't think it's capable of making 165. So it looks like I've narrowed it down to ESP or CCP -- and I need to run the ammo over a chronograph to see if it even makes 125.
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Old July 10, 2018, 12:39 AM   #18
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If you are loading your .45s way down, then the P13 in ESP might be just the ticket.
You will load 10+1 with your 13rd mags.

If the gun fits in the CCP box, you could do that too, with 8 rounds in your mags.
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Old July 10, 2018, 07:49 AM   #19
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The CCP Box is 7.75" long, 5.375" high, 1.375" deep.
4.375" barrel, 38 oz maximum.

Looks like the 13/45 fits except maybe the width.
If it is too broad, you can shoot it in ESP although I can tell you that you will take a hit from the shorter sight radius. At least I do.

I am loading .45 Minor to spare my arthritis while keeping guns and loading press in use. It is pretty hard to get .45 below f - 125, anything that will cycle the factory recoil spring will be plenty fast.
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Old July 10, 2018, 10:55 AM   #20
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1911s do have a bit of trouble fitting in the CCP box with ambi safeties, but if the safety is the widest part of the gun, you should still be OK.
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