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Old October 25, 2020, 10:21 AM   #26
Onward Allusion
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AR mags are a good example. On almost all my AR's, slapping in a fully loaded mag requires significantly more pressure than one that is downloaded by a single round. Pretty sure it ain't operator error. Also, mag release is steel. Mags can be poly or metal. The two will wear the poly mag catch sooner when doing the hard slaps.
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Old October 25, 2020, 11:29 AM   #27
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Requiring more pressure to seat and lock a fully loaded magazine with the action closed is not operator error. Nor is it a design error or any kind of flaw.

Expecting a fully loaded mag to lock in with the same amount of pressure (feel) as a downloaded mag (or an empty one) with the action closed is operator error.

With the action open, they all feel the same, because they are the same. With the action closed, they're not the same, and they can't be. The amount of difference might be a lot, or might just barely be noticeable, but it is there.

Not understanding it and not performing the proper steps for the different conditions is operator error.
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Old October 25, 2020, 03:26 PM   #28
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And designing a rifle which minimizes common situationally induced operator error is called excellent engineering, my friend.
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Old October 25, 2020, 07:59 PM   #29
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provided you recognize that less then excellence is not necessarily a flaw. my friend.

Sometimes, its just the best you can do with what you have or know, at the time.

I've always felt that looking at a design from 50 or 100 years ago, and deciding it is flawed because someone today figured out something better was wrong.

Though many people (some on juries) somehow think otherwise...
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Old October 25, 2020, 10:42 PM   #30
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44AMP, I’m willing to admit that engineering flaws are almost inevitable but not that flaws are somehow a good thing. Of course maybe you’re saying flaws build character?
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Old October 25, 2020, 11:02 PM   #31
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Of course if we could only induce fear like the trainees have never before experienced in their lives so they can better learn to incorporate workarounds... maybe those little engineering flaws won’t amount to much!

Or maybe until then they can load their problem mags with one or two less rounds.
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Old October 26, 2020, 06:56 PM   #32
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Of course maybe you’re saying flaws build character?
No, what I'm saying is that what you are calling flaws are not flaws.

A mechanical design that performs the intended function the expected number of times, when used as designed is not flawed.

it may not be as good as you want, you may see where improvement is possible, but that means the design is sub-optimal, or less than the best possible, it does not mean it is flawed.
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Old October 26, 2020, 07:13 PM   #33
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Some genius US Congressperson said a couple yrs ago ""Dont worry when all them bullets are used up they wont be able to shoot anymore"" or some such.

My 5 round AR mag (state reg for hunting)wont allow a fully loaded mag to
be seated in the well, just wont catch so I only do 4 after loading on in chamber.

I know loading one manually might not be preferred.
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Old October 26, 2020, 10:20 PM   #34
7.62 man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onward Allusion View Post
AR mags are a good example. On almost all my AR's, slapping in a fully loaded mag requires significantly more pressure than one that is downloaded by a single round. Pretty sure it ain't operator error. Also, mag release is steel. Mags can be poly or metal. The two will wear the poly mag catch sooner when doing the hard slaps.
If you are smacking in a fully loaded mag it should be in an open bolt on an AR for a fast reload because the bolt hold open should have the bolt back already.
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Old October 27, 2020, 04:32 PM   #35
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If you are at the range, load magazines to capacity. If you have a failure, back the count off a bit and label the mag with tape or marker after you know what it can handle. However, if you are loading magazines today and probably won't be back to the range for a month or more, I'd leave space for a couple of cartridges to relieve pressure on the spring.
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Old October 27, 2020, 08:35 PM   #36
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Obviously, load as many as range experience tells you, will feed reliably. Rod
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Old October 29, 2020, 03:11 PM   #37
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In 1969, 20 rounds in the 20 round mag. No issues.
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Old November 1, 2020, 11:04 AM   #38
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In the Army we carried them full. Until the internet said it was a bad thing I never heard of it or had a problem with it.
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Old November 1, 2020, 04:32 PM   #39
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If you are smacking in a fully loaded mag it should be in an open bolt on an AR for a fast reload because the bolt hold open should have the bolt back already.
7.62man, hence "lock and load," right? Well yeah such is true but life's situations often present other scenarios.

Reminds me of another defect inherent in AR platforms, the Touchy BCG Syndrome Flaw (TBCGSF is an acronym I just made up for those of you who like acronyms).

As you all have undoubtedly experienced, simply bumping the rifle can cause the AR BCG to slam home to the closed position thereby helping to induce the aforementioned magazine bounce flaw (MBF).

Oh my God (OMG), I forgot two more AR flaws. The forward assist flaw (FAF). Nobody has ever had to use that darn thing! Cutting them grooves in the carrier, (CGCF) in anticipation of it's use only assists in causing jams due to small particles of sand and grit getting caught in there.

Thank you Jesus (TYJ) the engineers at least attached a dust cover to this rifle!
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Old November 1, 2020, 10:32 PM   #40
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How many rounds ?

All of them.
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Old November 2, 2020, 07:09 AM   #41
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This seems to get debated every so often.

What I've seemed to have read was, single-stack (ie 1911) mags, go ahead and load to capacity if they are standard (meaning, in .45 acp, 7 for flush, 8 for extended). If they are "extra capacity", meaning a smaller spring and follower to allow, say, 8 for flush, download by 1 for storage.

For doublestack, in the older metal mags (say, for Sig, Beretta, CZ, High Power, S&W 39/59x series), I've heard to download 1. Particularly if you have 15 rd High Power flush mags. I do know a couple of my 5906 mags feel a bit weaker than I'd like, but so far they feed fine.

I've heard- don't leave them loaded, ok to leave them loaded, and anywhere in between. I've heard that springs can take a set, and that springs are ok.

The one thing I think is most likely to be true, is that constant load/reload is "harder" on springs than just leaving them as-is, either loaded or unloaded.
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Old November 2, 2020, 09:03 PM   #42
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How many rounds should I put in my magazine?
All of them.

Why wouldn't you?
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Old November 3, 2020, 08:56 PM   #43
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I load em' all the way or I don't. If I don't, it's usually multiples of five....thanks, OCD. All kidding aside, I expect magazines to hold what they are supposed to and operate properly when fully loaded. So far, they all have. AR included.
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Old November 16, 2020, 03:44 AM   #44
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The thing is, not all magazines are created equal. In most guns, it's been my experience that loading the magazines to full capacity doesn't create issues, but there have been exceptions. With many older designs like Beretta 92's, CZ-75's, S&W 5900 series, and Ruger P-Series, even when the magazine is loaded to full capacity there is still quite a bit of room for the spring to compress further. Often, these magazines will have enough "give" left in the spring that you can almost fit an additional round over the stated capacity of the mag in. With magazines like these, loading to capacity usually isn't a problem.

However, there seems to be a trend with many newer guns to squeeze as many rounds into as small a space as possible. Often, magazines for these guns have their spring pretty much fully compressed by the time the last round is inserted. In my experience, these magazines can sometimes give problems when loaded to full capacity. The problems I've seen include being very difficult to fully load, being difficult to rack the slide if a full magazine is inserted, being more susceptible to short stroking the slide, being more sensitive to lightly loaded ammo, and failing to lock the slide open after the mags have been left loaded for extended periods of time. In these cases, it has been my experience that downloading the mag by one round, particularly if it will be left loaded for an extended period of time, can be beneficial.

Fortunately, the magazines which seem most likely to be problematic when loaded to full capacity almost always have a fairly high capacity for the size and caliber of firearm. IMHO, the law of diminishing returns tells me that I'm really not at that huge of a handicap if my gun "only" has 16+1 rounds as opposed to 17+1, but then again I don't feel uncomfortable carrying single-stacks and revolvers.
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Old November 17, 2020, 03:13 PM   #45
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As it relates to AR mags:
It comes from the spring tension preventing an easy magazine insertion. A lot of the time you'll see people push a magazine into an ar and the magazine fall right out. Thats due to the spring not depressing against the bolt in a "tactical reload" and preventing the magazine from locking in.

Honestly test your magazines. Look up presscheck consultingar magazine. That will answer your questions regarding the ar mags.

The long and short of the video is test for at LEAST 1/8th inch (preferably 1/4th inch) of depression with a fully loaded magazine, and also test to make sure that you can lock your magazine in with just your forefinger and your thumb.
Edit:
Please watch the video. The last minute or two are practically gold.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk
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Old November 17, 2020, 04:15 PM   #46
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I've been shooting AR-15's for over 40 years. I have always loaded the 20 and 30 round mags full with 20 and 30 rounds with never a problem. All of my magazines are Colt. Also, I keep most of them loaded with nary a problem.
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