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Old June 9, 2024, 08:14 AM   #1
Tool
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Do you change your buffer springs for different types of ammo?

Below is from the Daniel Defense website:

"The red spring is to be used when running your Daniel Defense PDW unsuppressed while utilizing subsonic ammunition. The silver spring, or standard spring, is meant to be used for unsuppressed fire with supersonic ammo or suppressed fire with either subsonic or supersonic ammo."
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Old June 9, 2024, 08:27 AM   #2
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Nope. Anything for a dollar. But I can see possible differences for suppressed tuning. But regarding your title "Do you change your buffer springs for different types of ammo?", no.
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Old June 9, 2024, 09:19 AM   #3
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No, but in these days of cheap lowers and parts, I have several identical lowers with different weight buffers in place that are not committed to a particular upper and that I swap out for different caliber uppers and sometimes between shooting subsonic and supersonic loads in the same caliber.
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Old June 9, 2024, 10:00 AM   #4
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No, you do not generally change springs based on ammo.

You can change springs and buffer weights to tune bolt speed. This can smooth out recoil impulse and brass ejection pattern. Most people dont bother with it. And it could make your rifle less reliable if done wrong.

In any case, you cannot tune a rifle and determine if it could use a heavier spring or buffer until you have shot it and observed where your brass is ejecting on your individual build. And i would personally not even consider doing this until you have at least a couple hundred rounds through the rifle.

And I would tune buffer weight far before i touched springs. Buffers last about forever. Buffer springs wear out abd need replaced. I want the cheap common spring, not some specialty spring i can only order from 1 place. If you wanted to be able to tune this kak configurable buffer system lets you go from lighter than carbine all the way up to h3. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1025731716

As far as the info you found it refers specifically to the DD PDW. if you look that up, its a very non standard ar with a non standard buffer tube and its chambered in 300 blackout. That information would not apply to a standard ar.
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Old June 9, 2024, 12:23 PM   #5
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A $20 adjustable gas block beats drawer full of springs. A spring just needs to strong enough to ensure reliable feeding. Adjust the gas for reliable extraction and ejection. Don't worry the ejection patterns much. Function first.

I like to adjust the gas so that the buffer just barely bottoms out on the buffer tube. It is the optimum point. Reliable cycling with no added recoil. For "mission critical", which I don't have any, I would turn up the gas slightly.

-TL

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Last edited by tangolima; June 9, 2024 at 01:11 PM.
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Old June 9, 2024, 12:27 PM   #6
Shadow9mm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangolima View Post
A $20 adjustable gas block beats drawer full of springs. A spring just needs to strong enough to ensure reliable feeding. Adjust the gas for reliable extraction and ejection. Don't worry the ejection patterns much. Function first.

-TL

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Never seen a $20 adjustable gas block, in my experience they have been $60 and up. An adjustable gas block is also a LOT more commitment and work to put on than swapping a spring or buffer weight.

Main thing is, does it lock open on an empty mag reliably. If your gas is adjusted down too far, or your buffer is too heavy or spring too strong to where it will not reliably lock the bolt back when firing the last round in the magazine, then you need to back off your adjustment.

but again, you need to shoot it, to assess it, to see if it needs anything at all, or if it would even be worthwhile to do anything.
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Old June 9, 2024, 01:22 PM   #7
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Never seen a $20 adjustable gas block, in my experience they have been $60 and up. An adjustable gas block is also a LOT more commitment and work to put on than swapping a spring or buffer weight.



Main thing is, does it lock open on an empty mag reliably. If your gas is adjusted down too far, or your buffer is too heavy or spring too strong to where it will not reliably lock the bolt back when firing the last round in the magazine, then you need to back off your adjustment.



but again, you need to shoot it, to assess it, to see if it needs anything at all, or if it would even be worthwhile to do anything.
Love to sell you $40 each. How many do you want?

They are not the most fancy type. Needs Allen wrench to adjust. No click. Low profile and works fine.

-TL

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Old June 9, 2024, 06:36 PM   #8
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I was swapping uppers on a lower that was set up for 223. The new upper in 6.5 Grendel worked just fine. It’s a small sample size though.
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Old June 9, 2024, 08:25 PM   #9
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Nope, never. But I don’t shoot suppressed or subsonic loads.
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Old June 10, 2024, 12:17 AM   #10
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shadow i'm with tango, how many do you want? the cheep ones are $20 each but i'll sell them to you for $60 if you want to pay that... ))
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Old June 10, 2024, 12:50 AM   #11
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shadow i'm with tango, how many do you want? the cheep ones are $20 each but i'll sell them to you for $60 if you want to pay that... ))
No. I offered him $40 first, and have been looking forward to the 100% profit margin

-TL



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Old June 10, 2024, 09:18 AM   #12
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Yes, but then I know what I am doing too.

Swapping out a buffer/spring combo is easier than adjusting a gas block and it removes a potential failure point. Adjustable gas is a band aid for a gas port that is too large, but, adjustment of ARs is not something done by most people. Just run it overgassed and undersprung and it will work until it does not...and for most, that is going to be after they have left this life.
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Old June 10, 2024, 09:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow9mm
And I would tune buffer weight far before i touched springs.
That's what I did to remedy overgassing. It's easy and effective. I've even made a couple of overweight rifle buffers by removing the spacer and adding steel or tungsten weights. It makes for gentle and gradual recoil.

I've had one notable success with adjustable gas blocks, and a couple of underwhelming results. I use a Superlative Arms gas block on a midlength 16" pencil barrel with a buffer from which all weights are removed and a reduced power buffer spring and a lightweight bolt carrier. It's 5 pounds 7 ounces with the optic. Recoil reminds me of a 22magnum bolt action I used to use for pests, snappy but very light.

I also have used a free set screw type on a 13.7" midlength, 13.7" carbine, 16" rifle and 20" rifle all with standard springs and empty buffers. My results were not spectacular. Even the slowest bolt speeds that would lock back on a magazine had more recoil than I thought I should get. Maybe the reduced power spring was more important than I thought.
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Old June 10, 2024, 11:44 AM   #14
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Quote:
A $20 adjustable gas block beats drawer full of springs. A spring just needs to strong enough to ensure reliable feeding. Adjust the gas for reliable extraction and ejection. Don't worry the ejection patterns much. Function first.
Have a link?
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Old June 10, 2024, 12:01 PM   #15
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Here goes my lucrative profit . But seriously it works pretty ok. I have it on my 6mm ARC. I'm buying a few more for other uppers.

I can't see how adjustable gas block be more work. More gas is just... more gas. It reduces the overall reliability slightly. But what it needs is to readjust.

https://www.gorillamachining.com/sea...able+gas+block

-TL

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Old June 10, 2024, 12:42 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by tangolima
I can't see how adjustable gas block be more work.
By itself it should be less work, but it does invite complementary tinkering with the other components.

Anderson Manufacturing also makes a suppressor only gas block with a .055 gas port. I understand this to be correct for a 10.5 carbine barrel and suppressor. The gas port is conical, large at the barrel and small near the gas tube. It's fairly easy to drill by hand to an approximately correct diameter, but it's a one way adjustment.

I thought about trying one on a 16 inch carbine barrel, but my result with an adjustable gas block and 13.7 inch carbine barrel were so bad that I shelved the idea.
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Old June 10, 2024, 01:51 PM   #17
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First off, I suspect this is a Colt 6721 HBAR upper based on this thread https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=618762 . That makes a low profiled adjustable gas block much less of a viable option as it permanently removes the front sight.

One other option would be the BRT eztune gas tubes. They restrict the gas flow. could be an ez swap for a new used, just a roll pin. https://blackrivertactical.com/WP/BR...ine-p103167251

Lastly, based on several posts I have seen, the OP is very new to the AR platform. While you and I may not think twice about driving out taper pins, lining up a gas block, drilling for a roll pin(if it is holding the handguard on), it may be well beyond the OP's current level of ability and probably need.
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Old June 10, 2024, 02:07 PM   #18
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and there are those that don't realize that the buffer retaining pen is spring loaded on most models... but a learning curve is what it is.
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Old June 10, 2024, 02:27 PM   #19
tangolima
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Oh the A2 front sight base. That doesn't work. There is way to modify the FSB to make it adjustable, but let's not go there.

In this case spring and buffer weight would be the option left.

-TL

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Old June 10, 2024, 03:41 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by georgehwbush View Post
and there are those that don't realize that the buffer retaining pen is spring loaded on most models... but a learning curve is what it is.
I don't even use them anymore.

Quote:
I can't see how adjustable gas block be more work.
The title of the thread...

Quote:
Do you change your buffer springs for different types of ammo?
Takes what, 10 seconds to change a buffer and or spring.

With a gas block, it is adjust, proof, etc. They are not a wear free item and over time, their settings need to be re-tuned.

The only way they are not MORE work is if you only use one load and don't shoot often.
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Old June 11, 2024, 12:03 PM   #21
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Yes, but then I know what I am doing too.
If you ever feel like spilling some of that knowledge into the page, I'll read it eagerly.

Is the inherent problem with a carbine length system just that it will always unlock too soon when pressure is too high, or is it just more finicky to tune?

Is a very low recoil SBR possible, or does all the hot gas pushing forward mask most of the recoil reduction involved in gas, bolt and spring tuning?
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Old June 11, 2024, 01:07 PM   #22
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zukiphile; (Is a very low recoil SBR possible, or does all the hot gas pushing forward mask most of the recoil reduction involved in gas, bolt and spring tuning? )

there are ways.
1, suppressors, they generally eat a lot of the hot gas and thus reduce felt recoil. (highly governmentally regulated)

2 muzzle break, they redirect the hot gas and let you eat it (not good without hearing protection), thus reducing felt recoil.

3. special loads, one can load with a very fast burning powder and somewhat reduce the felt recoil, (not for the faint of hart) but this is not as much help as the first two.

probably the best way is add a break if you really need to reduce recoil.

that is strictly academic, not a suggestion.
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Old June 11, 2024, 05:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
If you ever feel like spilling some of that knowledge into the page, I'll read it eagerly.

Is the inherent problem with a carbine length system just that it will always unlock too soon when pressure is too high, or is it just more finicky to tune?

Is a very low recoil SBR possible, or does all the hot gas pushing forward mask most of the recoil reduction involved in gas, bolt and spring tuning?
The closer the gas port is to the chamber, the larger the gas port needs to be. But then we get way over gassed. Powder choice is a thing to consider as well. The shorter the barrel (at least in .223) the lighter the bullet and the faster the powder (for shootability at least).

If you will recall the 3GN pro-tour, I built several of the pros uppers that were short barrels. 10" barrels with Carbine gas ports and 6.5" of pinned shroud. Running 40 grain bullets at 2200 fps. Silly soft. If you put a normal .223 load in it, it was pretty rough on the case. It's all just trade off and tunes. Being a barrel maker has some perks...I try all kinds of odd things. Some just work out really well, others, not as much.
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Old June 11, 2024, 06:09 PM   #24
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The closer the gas port is to the chamber, the larger the gas port needs to be.
I thought smaller gas port hole diameter when it is closer to chamber, no?

-TL



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Old June 11, 2024, 09:45 PM   #25
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I thought smaller gas port hole diameter when it is closer to chamber, no?
Yes, but there is pressure and volume. If you make the gas port larger, and fill the tube the chamber pressure drops faster, but you push more gas into the BCG. It's a dance that most folks only see one way, but it can be used to mitigate pressure if you have a way to bleed of excess gas (like a Superlative Arms or a Gas Key bleed off).

I should have been more specific as to what I was actually saying.
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