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 May 30, 2024, 08:03 PM #3 The Verminator Senior Member   Join Date: April 19, 2013 Location: Minnesota Posts: 570 Bullets and punches. Apples and oranges. No justification for comparing them logically.
 May 31, 2024, 12:57 AM #4 georgehwbush Senior Member   Join Date: July 14, 2023 Location: down town USA Posts: 303 for the sake of argument! the armor-piercing bullet... so it's a 122gr bullet with a m.v. 2395ft/s and (assuming g1) bc of .280 the deceleration rate is about 2.81 ft/s per yard, for the first 100 yds. and the round goes subsonic at about 600yds. so the real question to ask about the rifle slug question is 'at what distance?' one has to assume it is not intended to be a muzzle against the scull propisition... so what range? the math is simple weight times speed equals energy, there are a few conversions that have to be made but it's simple. at 100 yds the velocity is 2114 ft/s and the energy is 1210 ft/lbs all numbers rounded of course.
June 1, 2024, 06:45 AM   #6
4V50 Gary
Staff

Join Date: November 2, 1998
Posts: 21,878
From Forward_Observer at THR who owns a pair of replica Deringers:

Quote:
 The barrel is 2 7/16 inches long not including the tang. It's hard to measure the bore because it has an odd number (7) of lands and grooves so there is always a groove opposite a land. However, the set came with 7 cast balls hidden in a compartment under the bullet mold. It's claimed online that the original assassination pistol was .44 cal. The balls that came with the set measure .40. Using pillow ticking that is normally .018 inches thick and doubled since it surrounds the ball would come to .436 cal. Close enough to call it .44 cal I guess. Cheers
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 June 2, 2024, 09:21 PM #7 bamaranger Senior Member   Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,376 ?????? " strongly doubt the bullet was spherical " "most were roundball guns" I think the terms here are mixed up, or the phrasing got rearranged. Likely, the bullet was not "conical". Spherical and round are the same.....aren't they?
 June 3, 2024, 09:46 AM #8 4V50 Gary Staff   Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,878 Yeah, I messed up. Was thinking conical. Boothe used a round ball (spherical). __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
 June 4, 2024, 11:51 PM #9 Jim Watson Senior Member   Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,628 I read that it was a .414” ball, but seeing it pictured, flattened and expanded from impact, I don’t see how that number was arrived at. Note that the pocket Deringers do not have ramrods. Speed loading out of your pockets would not be feasible anyhow. If you were in Philadelphia, Mr Deringer had a range and your pistol(s) would be cleaned and reloaded for you after practice. Last edited by Jim Watson; June 5, 2024 at 01:46 PM.
 June 7, 2024, 02:49 PM #10 itsfrankiesgal Junior Member   Join Date: May 29, 2024 Posts: 5 Thank you very much gents. Fascinating to read through this thread. Since my analogy has rightly been deemed ridiculous, what might be a better one that references an important historical moment? Thanks again!!
 June 8, 2024, 12:15 PM #11 bamaranger Senior Member   Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,376 OK I would agree that equating a boxers punch with a bullet strike is a poor comparison and a better analogy and phrasing is needed. Bullets penetrate, punches do not. Armor piercing brings another confusing dynamic, what kind of armor, and there are projectiles large and small, that are specifically intended for that role. Just don't go there. While I'm at it, why an historical event? Another sort of blow might be more easily related to by your readers. Some research might turn up the energy involved in a bat striking a baseball, a bowling ball striking pins, etc. I'll have to think about that for awhile. I too am terrible with math. Thread may close before any further replies, if so wish the best in your endeavor.
 June 8, 2024, 03:31 PM #12 JohnKSa Staff   Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 25,089 Bullet wounds are a combination of blunt trauma and a penetrating injury. If the bullet is non-expanding and moving relatively slowly (as bullets go), then the resulting injury is primarily a penetration wound. That is, the bullet pokes a hole in the tissue but doesn't do much else. Sometimes wounds like this can go unnoticed initially even if they are quite serious. If the bullet has a lot of energy, especially if it expands/fragments as well, then the resulting injury can have significant blunt trauma effect. That is, tissue can be stretched/bruised/torn in addition to the penetration injury. Wounds like this tend to be noticed immediately, even if they aren't serious. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
 June 10, 2024, 01:44 PM #13 itsfrankiesgal Junior Member   Join Date: May 29, 2024 Posts: 5 Ok I won't go there. Have been pondering this and a common visual analogy would work better. It's funny I had written a line about punches poking holes like a hobo's meal ticket, and my editor called me on it. But I read several sports articles on the results of fights, and darned if they didn't repeatedly use 'poking holes' and 'faces sliced up as if with an artists knife,' so while people think of the broad area of a boxing glove as doing broad damage, you also have split eyelids, etc. It's a quandary. Hey thank you very much for pondering along with me.
 June 10, 2024, 01:55 PM #14 itsfrankiesgal Junior Member   Join Date: May 29, 2024 Posts: 5 That's kind've why I went where I went, but it looks like I got it backwards? I never went beyond the fact that a Civil War era cast lead ball, while traveling much slower than a more modern full metal jacket, would cause a penetration wound because its a solid piece, while the higher velocity bullet with expansion capabilities, would actually be closer to what I was envisioning, but still not a great analogy. Great food for thought, thanks.
 June 10, 2024, 02:01 PM #15 georgehwbush Senior Member   Join Date: July 14, 2023 Location: down town USA Posts: 303 sometimes comparing apples and potatoes is difficult, but why bother with minute details if you are just wanting to create a visual for your readers? while maybe not accurate it draws a picture and you can clearify with a simple "kinda like" or something symular. that will take the need for accuracy off of you and let you express your self more clearly.
 June 10, 2024, 02:16 PM #16 itsfrankiesgal Junior Member   Join Date: May 29, 2024 Posts: 5 Oh I like this ! Gives me a bit of an 'out.' But nah, I'll figure something else out or remove the last bit. Just checked on a baseball swing but that has something like 4-6000 lbs of force, so scratch that lol. I am providing proof that a future heavyweight champion of the world knew he had knocked his opponent out cold, but with the help of a paid off referee beholden to racketeers, and a state commissioner who got cuts of Baer's purses, was allowed to intentionally throw twenty plus punches to an unconscious opponent while he was hung up on the ropes, until his brain was separated from his skull. I am throwing history into a tailspin, so I need to be very careful with every word, claim, analogy that I put to paper.
 June 10, 2024, 02:23 PM #17 georgehwbush Senior Member   Join Date: July 14, 2023 Location: down town USA Posts: 303 understood.

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