black powder mortar/cannon

Chuck Bogardus · October 29, 2021, 07:35 PM

I'm thinking of making a few with a bore sized to take a golf ball. Can they be sold, or would that be considered a firearm? Fuse-fired, black powder.

A dealer I was talking to kept calling it a destructive device... Sigh... Only if you put a LOT of smokeless in it...

kenny53 · October 29, 2021, 09:10 PM

I have seen them for sale at gun shows with no restrictions. I would think they are no more then a short big bore muzzle loader. A destructive device is a 16 year old with a new drivers license.

Hawg · October 29, 2021, 09:29 PM

I've seen them for sale before.

Bill DeShivs · October 30, 2021, 12:46 AM

No federal regulations at all. They are all over Ebay.

darkgael · October 30, 2021, 07:59 AM

I have three of them, one of which I made myself. There was no problem buying the other two shopping on line.
Take a good look “The Complete Cannoneer” by M.C. Switlik.
Golf ball mortar minimum bore size is 1.723”. Diameter of a common golf ball is 1.68”. The extra is called windage.
The formula is (diameter of the projectile/39) X 40.
The picture is a golf ball mortar made from DOM tubing bored out to proper diameter.
This mortar follows plans from this post at Greybeard Outdoors:
https://www.go2gbo.com/threads/k-i-s...7/#post-378007
Plans by Douglas Dickens.

Jim Watson · October 30, 2021, 12:31 PM

Golf ball is smaller than a one pounder.
Baseball is close to three pounder.

Chuck Bogardus · October 30, 2021, 07:40 PM

I did my first one at about 1.75" and used old t-shirts for wadding.

FIgured 80 grains of FFG.

We popped a few.

And we popped a few more.

And I stuffed in 80 grains (by capacity) of Bullseye, figuring that if Bubba got 'hold of it, that could happen.

It bulged it a couple of thou.

Made out of Chicom 1018, 2.75" diameter solid bar, drilled and bored. 1/2" walls. Fuse size is a #30 twist drill.

Did the first one with about a 45 degree angle, 6" barrel. Going to switch to about 60 degrees (toward vertical) and a 3" OAL. Given that an inch of the back is 1/2" of solid, and a 1/2" powder cavity, the patched ball will be visible, much like the original coehorn mortars.

**Aguila Blanca** · October 30, 2021, 08:16 PM

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-...uctive-devices

darkgael · October 31, 2021, 02:43 AM

It is not necessary or desirable to patch the ball when loading it into the mortar.
The piece will fire quite well without a patch.

Jim Watson · October 31, 2021, 11:36 AM

The only cannon I ever shot was a little 3 pounder "grasshopper gun" and the owner loaded it with zinc ball taped to a wood sabot. Not very accurate but loaded with a bag of musket balls it was obviously a tough short range proposition.

**44 AMP** · November 1, 2021, 12:13 PM

A black powder muzzle loader avoids all restrictions using the "readily available ammuntion" language. Under Federal law, muzzleloaders are not legally firearms (which is why you can buy them mail order, still today)

HOWEVER, some states DO consider muzzleloaders to be firearms, so check your state's laws.

The Federal rules covering cannon are generally not about bore size but about the projectiles. Not certain about today, haven't researched it lately, but at one time you could buy a tank with its cannon intact and functional, and it was not a restricted item. The AMMUNITION for that tank, WAS restricted.

Exploding ammunition, is a destructive device under the law, so explosive tank rounds, like hand grenades, mortar rounds and such are each, individually registered, taxed and tracked under ATF rules.

SOLID SHOT projectiles are not. and muzzle loading cannon firing solid shot are not, as far as I know. IF you're going to fire exploding shot (cannonballs or other) from your muzzle loading cannon, better talk to the Feds BEFORE you do it. If you don't and the Feds find out you're firing explosive shot, they're DEFINATELY going to want to talk to you, and, they won't be happy...

This is not legal advice, its the situation as best I remember it, and is intended for discussion only! I may be wrong. Or things might have changed since I learned the rules. For valid legal advice PAY a Lawyer.
Good luck, have fun! And BE CAREFUL.

I knew of a guy, (a high school shop teacher) who was a homemade muzzle loading cannon enthusiast. He was also missing 3 fingers from one hand.

There's a good reason why the sponge is on the rammer and there's always a bucket of water handy when operating BP cannon! learn the proper procedures and (since no one is shooting cannon back at you) there's no reason to rush things...

Good Luck, have fun BE SAFE!!!

darkgael · November 2, 2021, 06:50 AM

44Amp: Good advice.

Hawg · November 2, 2021, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

There's a good reason why the sponge is on the rammer and there's always a bucket of water handy when operating BP cannon!

Good Luck, have fun BE SAFE!!!

Wet swab after every shot with the touch hole covered.

October 29, 2021, 07:35 PM	#1
Chuck Bogardus Junior Member Join Date: October 29, 2021 Posts: 2	black powder mortar/cannon I'm thinking of making a few with a bore sized to take a golf ball. Can they be sold, or would that be considered a firearm? Fuse-fired, black powder. A dealer I was talking to kept calling it a destructive device... Sigh... Only if you put a LOT of smokeless in it...

October 30, 2021, 12:46 AM	#4
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	No federal regulations at all. They are all over Ebay. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

October 30, 2021, 08:16 PM	#8
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-...uctive-devices __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

October 31, 2021, 02:43 AM	#9
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Patched ball It is not necessary or desirable to patch the ball when loading it into the mortar. The piece will fire quite well without a patch. __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

November 1, 2021, 12:13 PM	#11
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	A black powder muzzle loader avoids all restrictions using the "readily available ammuntion" language. Under Federal law, muzzleloaders are not legally firearms (which is why you can buy them mail order, still today) HOWEVER, some states DO consider muzzleloaders to be firearms, so check your state's laws. The Federal rules covering cannon are generally not about bore size but about the projectiles. Not certain about today, haven't researched it lately, but at one time you could buy a tank with its cannon intact and functional, and it was not a restricted item. The AMMUNITION for that tank, WAS restricted. Exploding ammunition, is a destructive device under the law, so explosive tank rounds, like hand grenades, mortar rounds and such are each, individually registered, taxed and tracked under ATF rules. SOLID SHOT projectiles are not. and muzzle loading cannon firing solid shot are not, as far as I know. IF you're going to fire exploding shot (cannonballs or other) from your muzzle loading cannon, better talk to the Feds BEFORE you do it. If you don't and the Feds find out you're firing explosive shot, they're DEFINATELY going to want to talk to you, and, they won't be happy... This is not legal advice, its the situation as best I remember it, and is intended for discussion only! I may be wrong. Or things might have changed since I learned the rules. For valid legal advice PAY a Lawyer. Good luck, have fun! And BE CAREFUL. I knew of a guy, (a high school shop teacher) who was a homemade muzzle loading cannon enthusiast. He was also missing 3 fingers from one hand. There's a good reason why the sponge is on the rammer and there's always a bucket of water handy when operating BP cannon! learn the proper procedures and (since no one is shooting cannon back at you) there's no reason to rush things... Good Luck, have fun BE SAFE!!! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 29, 2021, 09:10 PM	#2
kenny53 Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2015 Location: My back yard Posts: 971	I have seen them for sale at gun shows with no restrictions. I would think they are no more then a short big bore muzzle loader. A destructive device is a 16 year old with a new drivers license.

October 29, 2021, 09:29 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I've seen them for sale before.

October 30, 2021, 12:31 PM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Golf ball is smaller than a one pounder. Baseball is close to three pounder.

October 30, 2021, 07:40 PM	#7
Chuck Bogardus Junior Member Join Date: October 29, 2021 Posts: 2	I did my first one at about 1.75" and used old t-shirts for wadding. FIgured 80 grains of FFG. We popped a few. And we popped a few more. And I stuffed in 80 grains (by capacity) of Bullseye, figuring that if Bubba got 'hold of it, that could happen. It bulged it a couple of thou. Made out of Chicom 1018, 2.75" diameter solid bar, drilled and bored. 1/2" walls. Fuse size is a #30 twist drill. Did the first one with about a 45 degree angle, 6" barrel. Going to switch to about 60 degrees (toward vertical) and a 3" OAL. Given that an inch of the back is 1/2" of solid, and a 1/2" powder cavity, the patched ball will be visible, much like the original coehorn mortars.

October 31, 2021, 11:36 AM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	The only cannon I ever shot was a little 3 pounder "grasshopper gun" and the owner loaded it with zinc ball taped to a wood sabot. Not very accurate but loaded with a bag of musket balls it was obviously a tough short range proposition.

November 2, 2021, 06:50 AM	#12
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Yep. 44Amp: Good advice. __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member