Why you can never be too careful

[Aguila Blanca]

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainmen...er-movie-rust/

Alec Baldwin shot two people on the set of his current film, killing the cinematographer. Details so far incomplete. The firearm was a prop gun, so there's certainly going to be an inquiry into how a gun supposedly loaded with blanks could wound two people, killing one of them.

The article mentions that on a film set all firearms are supposed to be under the control of an armorer, but it doesn't say if there was one present at the time of the incident.

This is a reminder to those of us who are instructors that we can never be too careful.

[HiBC]

Not enough is known to say very much.

There is a major disconnect between gun culture folks and those who are neutral or anti-gun.
I notice news media folks often use terminology that perhaps virtue signals them as "proudly gun ignorant" to their peers.

"Thirty magazine gun clips" and such.

They might be that ignorant. You can bet they do not know the basics of firearm safety.

They will fight to have the public schools indoctrinate the kids with topics we as parents might not want them exposed to.
Yet they will not allow the NRA Eddy Eagle basic gun safety course near the school.

This was a movie set. An actor made a mistake that killed one and wounded another. Bruce Lee's son Brandon died in similar fashion. Brandon Lee's death should have been precedent enough to make sure it never happened again.

What Hollywood does not get : Every person that handles a gun is responsible .Even Hollywood actors. Even anti-gun actors. (I do not know how Alec Baldwin feels about guns. Nothing implied)

Sure,no doubt the prop manager or armorer "has some explaining to do" to put it mildly.

But no matter who did what,If a gun store clerk handed me a loaded firearm ,round chambered,off safe, no one will get shot because I own My responsibility to point it in a safe direction,and ask if I may check it for clear.
Then I check that its clear.
If i am holding the gun when it fires,its not the clerk who had the discharge.
I am responsible.

I doubt Hollywood sees it that way.

I do not expect all actors to train like John Wick.

But I would expect Alec Baldwin,or any other gun handling actor,to have the gun safety training and skills of an 11 year old kid at a 4-H firing line.

The surviving wounded person was the Director. Thats like Project Management. "The Supervisor" Another responsible party.

If someone gets killed in a Construction or Industrial Accident, OSHA is all over it.

My point, SOME basic "Eddie Eagle" type training ought to be in place in the public school system. If they can teach "safe sex" they can teach gun safety.

Colorado approx 1969 ran every high school student through the Hunter Safety Program.

[Mainah]

The surviving wounded person was the Director. Thats like Project Management. "The Supervisor" Another responsible party.

Baldwin was one of the movie's producers, so he also had an additional layer of responsibility.

[HiBC]

What the news is saying at this point "The GUN misfired"
Inanimate objects get blamed a lot.

I don't know what will happen next, but likely the "blame finger" will get pointed at the gun,and at staff. Once again,I do not know what will happen,but it would not surprise me if the VIP Alec gets cast as a victim

Pondering "How could this happen?....OK,I recall my ROTC field training days. We were given clear training that a Garand's 30-06 blank could injure or kill at close range. But there is no projectile.

A true blank can injure with directed blast,and a little wadding. Its not going to penetrate through a human and wound another person.

I'm betting the round had a bullet.

I'm wondering if a VIP might have a full set of keys,including the key that gets to the "blanks"

It might be that a gun ignorant person would think a wadcutter target load was a blank. Square ended,fully seated to the case mouth. No bullet visble.

"Cant see a bullet,must be a blank" (ANY live ammo on set is its own issue)

I don't know that's what happened.Its a way I can connect the dots.

[BobCat45]

Too early to advance theories about causes of the so-called "misfire" but making lists of questions that need answers may be appropriate now.

My first question is, if neither of the people shot were actors, why was Baldwin pointing a prop gun at them and pulling the trigger? In the midst of filming it might be predictable that the prop would be pointed at an actor whose role was to be shot, but those people were not actors and it seems odd to fire blanks at one's co-workers outside the scenario of the story being filmed.

Why fire two shots? Or was only one shot fired, which was a pass-through, and two people hit?

To my way of thinking the reason to figure out what went wrong is to implement changes to make such an error less likely in the future. Like, "you can't fix it if you don't know why it broke."

[Adventurer 2]

The irony - an outspoken, anti-gun, actor shoots and kills someone. I hope he accepts responsibility for his role - Negligent homicide should be the charge and he can let a progressive court decide his guilt or innocence. I think this incident is a failure on many levels.

[Aguila Blanca]

Yes, Baldwin is anti-gun and outspoken about it. Ironically, four years ago he tweeted the following in response to something Dana Loesch said:

I see that @DLoesch wants to “take back the truth.”
And she doesn’t care how many dead bodies she has to step over in that pursuit.
The Second Amendment is not a moral credit card that buys you all the guns you want.
That law needs to be rethought.

The irony is that (as far as I know) Dana Loesch hasn't killed anyone.

Baldwin is just another Hollywood personality who hates guns but doesn't mind collecting big bucks for using them in screen. In other words: a hypocrite.

[Mainah]

They were filming a western, so a revolver was likely used.

[FrankenMauser]

Early leaks suggest it was a gun being used as a prop, not a prop gun in the sense of being modified for blanks only.

Either way, guns are not toys.

Mr. "I hate guns and only police should have them" just got a lesson in treating them as toys, and not showing the respect they require.

[Shane Tuttle]

As I recall, a similar situation happened on the set of The Crow. I believe Brandon Lee was killed by a gunshot wound and they had to be pretty creative to finish up the movie.

What bothers me is if Baldwin would have been properly educated on handling a firearm, this might not have happened. Prop gun, real gun, or a toy, I always check the chamber as applicable. While it's virtually impossible for a cartridge to be loaded in a cap gun, it's the ingrained habit to checking, anyway, that bolsters solid practice.

I can't stand that jackass. But I still feel badly for the victims and he's going to have that hanging on his conscience for the rest of his life.

[Mainah]

Baldwin's Twitter history has this nugget of complete irony: https://nypost.com/2021/10/22/alec-b...-cop-shooting/

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Shane Tuttle

What bothers me is if Baldwin would have been properly educated on handling a firearm, this might not have happened.

I suspect that Baldwin was arrogant enough to think that he didn't need any education on safe gun handling. And, as the star and the producer -- who was going to tell him different?

And, from the link provided by Mainah, comes this:
https://nypost.com/2021/10/22/alec-b...atal-shooting/

It wasn't his fault. Someone else was at fault, for handing him a "hot" gun.

Immediately after the incident, an eyewitness told Hollywood gossip site Showbiz 411 that Baldwin started asking how he could have been given a “hot gun” — meaning a firearm loaded with real ammunition.

“In all my years, I’ve never been handed a hot gun,” the actor allegedly kept saying.

And, of course, he didn't shoot anyone. The gun fired -- all by itself.

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, 42, died and director, Joel Souza, 48, was injured after they were both struck when the gun discharged, the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office said.

[eflyguy]

Originally Posted by Shane Tuttle

I can't stand that jackass. But I still feel badly for the victims and he's going to have that hanging on his conscience for the rest of his life.

This.

I can't understand, however, why even an idiot as big as this was waving prop in the direction of non-actors.

The whole thing stinks.

[Mainah]

Looking more and more like a combination of arrogance and ignorance.

[aarondhgraham]

I worked as a production assistant (gopher) on a movie set once,,,
The production company had hard rules about live ammo on set.

In short, live ammo was prohibited on set.

We were told that anyone found with ammo would be immediately fired,,,
Even if it was in your car in the parking area.

Aarond

.

[Pahoo]

There is a major disconnect between gun culture folks and those who are neutral or anti-gun.

This is true as they try to debate and legislate things they know nothing about and of course they have an equally ignorant following....

Yet they will not allow the NRA Eddy Eagle basic gun safety course near the school.

I have had limited involvement with the Eddy Eagle program and it's been rejected by "most" schools because of three letters; (NRA)

Bruce Lee's son Brandon died in similar fashion. Brandon Lee's death should have been precedent enough to make sure it never happened again.

Once again, the movie industry missed the opportunity to correct this mistake. ...

Every person that handles a gun is responsible .Even Hollywood actors. Even anti-gun actors. (I do not know how Alec Baldwin feels about guns. Nothing implied)

Why is it so important to use live ammo on a movie set? You don't need it. Alec Baldwin doesn't have to know anything about firearms but I suspect he would be another talking head that would abolish them. I've read that there is lawsuit filed against him. I don't care for the man but this will go nowhere.....

Pleased to serve as a Hunter Ed Instructor and in one of our sessions, we teach safe gun handling practices and guidelines. We do not utilize any active ammo or propellants, in the classroom. We use three replicas; Glock, H&R starter's pistol, Colt SA and M/L. .....

It's going to be interesting to see what comes of this. ...

Be Safe !!!

[Tom Servo]

I believe Brandon Lee was killed by a gunshot wound

In his case, it was a dummy round that had a live primer. It happened during a scene in which multiple people were "shooting" at the protagonist. That's a horrible mistake on the part of the prop master and/or armorer.

But this case looks different. Two people were shot, neither of whom were actors in a scene. On some level, negligence on the part of the person holding the gun almost had to be a factor.

Whether or not there are criminal charges, he'll probably be on the hook for a civil suit. Given his prior attitude and actions regarding guns (let's say they're not supportive to be mild), I expect him to try and turn this into something anti-gun in the near future.

[Adventurer 2]

From the Actors Equity Association (rules for actors):
https://www.actorsequity.org/resourc...e-of-firearms/

[Mainah]

From what I've read about the Lee shooting one of the problems was that dummy rounds were needed for front camera shots of the revolver, it had to appear on screen that there were bullets chambered. I'm not sure if that played a role in this case. But you'd think that an industry that can create realistic space ship battles and flying superheroes could come up with a safer solution.

[BobCat45]

Thanks for the Actors Equity Association rules! Good sense there; particularly about "cheating" the shot - aiming next to the target character instead of *at* the target character. Almost like Rule 4 - make sure of your target and backstop - but intended to make the "target" safe if the weapon suddenly turns 'real'.

[Stiofan]

"Twitter users are now zeroing in on Baldwin's past social media activity and one glaring tweet he posted on Sept. 22, 2017 reads: "I wonder how it must feel to wrongfully kill someone..." The tweet also included a link to a Los Angeles Times article about a Huntington Beach police officer who was captured on video struggling with a suspect in a parking lot of a convenience store before shooting the man several times, killing him."

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...y-kill-someone

Open mouth, remove foot.

[ballardw]

Originally Posted by Adventurer 2

From the Actors Equity Association (rules for actors):
https://www.actorsequity.org/resourc...e-of-firearms/

Apparently failed the second item in the list:

Treat all guns as if they are loaded and deadly.


There is some evidence that this is for live performance:
Live ammunition may not be brought into the theatre.
Use protective shields for all off stage cast within close proximity to any shots fired.
Appropriate ear protection should be offered to the cast members and stage managers.

[rickyrick]

I guess real guns and bullets are still cheaper than CGI.

This was an avoidable tragedy, in many ways.

[DaleA]

Post #2:

I notice news media folks often use terminology that perhaps virtue signals them as "proudly gun ignorant" to their peers.

Boy, there's some truth right there.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

In his case, it was a dummy round that had a live primer.

That's not what I remember. Back then, they allowed (and used) live ammunition on movie sets. The gun involved had previously been used to fire live ammo. Apparently, either a bullet from a squib load or a bullet fragment (according to some reports) was lodged in the barrel. The gun was not checked, cleaned, or cleared before subsequently being loaded with blanks so, when a blank was fired, the charge was sufficient to fire to stuck bullet, fatally wounding Lee.