Follow along for my 25 PRC build

[stagpanther]

Actually took a some test shots today--exceptionally sweet shooter! No issues whatsoever other than the muzzle brake spun free after the first couple of shots, seems like "self timing" brakes are prone to that. Recoil is negligible IMO for an appreciably fast cartridge, I can see why comp shooters are warming to the cartridge, gentle hit, little to no muzzle lift. Look out Creedmoor-heads!

[sako2]

Take a punch that fits snug in the brake slots and tighten it. Easy on the shoulder aren't they?

[stagpanther]

Take a punch that fits snug in the brake slots and tighten it.

Pretty much what I ended up doing--except I wrap the punch in a soft cloth--I've learned its important to preserve symmetry in the baffles as long as possible.

[stagpanther]

Because I loaded the cartridges before I had the barrel, I used a COL significantly shorter than I could have--oh well. So I made up a few cartridges with the PVA senecas which are 120 gr. Theoretically these bullets should approach a sizzling 3300 fps with the right load (and provided there no pressure issues). I'm starting below that, of course. (actually I've never seen load data for what I'm trying)

[sako2]

I may have missed it. What powder are you using?

[stagpanther]

In the case of the 120's--I'm trying VV N560. (sorry, I spaced out and used the size from their cayuga bullets at first).

[std7mag]

Stag,

Once you get to 100gr in the monos, they are too long to stabilize in the 1:10 twist barrels.

And another vote for EGW!
I use their 20 MOA one piece rails on everything but my Ruger 77s. I like to stretch thing out sometimes, hence the 20 MOA.
Their bases are kinda tall. But it allows me to use low height rings on everything through a 50mm objective.

If your not worried about keeping weight down, EGW's new Keystone series of rings are worth looking at!
These things are seriously over built! 2.25 ounces per ring for the low height.

And if you buy base & rings together, EGW knocks off 10%.

[BornFighting88]

I second std7mag! I don’t believe mine is 20 MOA, I think mine is 0 MOA. If that is the case and I have trouble reaching out and hitting things or I run out of elevation adjustment, I will be looking at their 20 MOA model in a heartbeat.

I chose Warne rings, as they are the same in my mind, overbuilt. Legitimately boat anchors that have been forged or machined into rings. All steel with Torx screws to lock them down and a massive steel square cross pin to seat in the rail. I am thinking about tossing the original cross bars, as there is a little bit of inherent wiggle so they fit in. I might get some A-2 tool steel, or pieces of oversized keystock and grind them to fit. With a low recoiling thing like 6.5 PRC, it might not even be an issue. The clamping friction of the rings, and the surface area of the grip and the keys resting against the front of the slots they sit in should keep “0” just fine. My inner Toolmaker is going off the deep end again. Hahah

Those loaded rounds are just filthy filthy filth!! Good work, friend!!

[stagpanther]

Stag,

Once you get to 100gr in the monos, they are too long to stabilize in the 1:10 twist barrels.

And another vote for EGW!
I use their 20 MOA one piece rails on everything but my Ruger 77s. I like to stretch thing out sometimes, hence the 20 MOA.
Their bases are kinda tall. But it allows me to use low height rings on everything through a 50mm objective.

If your not worried about keeping weight down, EGW's new Keystone series of rings are worth looking at!
These things are seriously over built! 2.25 ounces per ring for the low height.

And if you buy base & rings together, EGW knocks off 10%.

You're preaching to the choir--I already default to their rails (when they are available), my HD 5 is default zero-stopped to their 20 MOA base, but I can just barely get it to range at 100 yds on this 0 MOA weaver base; so I'm leaving it there for now since the scope does triple-duty between my 7mm STW, my CZ 457 and now this one. I'm going to try to get a few more shots through it today--we are in the midst of a building gale, supposed to reach gusts of potentially 60 mph by this evening, so I don't know if I can get any labradar readings.

[stagpanther]

I shot a couple of groups of the 120 senecas and the 135 hybrids today, mostly just to get some bullets down the new bore. It's been blowing up to 40 mph at times during the day--we're supposed to get walloped by a gale this evening so I didn't bother bringing the labradar. Without it, when I'm shooting a wildcat that has little data on it, I feel I'm flying blind, so I keep the loads down.

The 120 senecas did not do so well, maybe around MOA at 230 yds--but to be fair I was shooting off the hood of my truck in the rain and strong gusty winds, so I'll come back to them in better weather. The 135 hybrids seem to take the winds in stride better--but it could have simply been luck falling on a fairly good powder combo on a lower end charge--hopefully better things are yet to come. The barrel itself seems to foul pretty badly pretty fast, could be a number of things attributable to that.

[stagpanther]

Maine part of the storm has passed, but it's still very windy, I'm going to give another try to set up the labradar today if possible.

Interesting thing about reloading with the Prazipress--it precisely locks the shell holder in such a way that if the holder does not hold the case at an absolute 90* flat--the press will often let you know by nicking the case on the way into the die, rather than letting "play" align the decap pin.

[stagpanther]

The PVA 117 gr solids are still shooting poorly for me (or I simply can't find a good load) no matter what powder or velocity I keep getting groups of 2 to 3 MOA no matter the distance. I'm stumped.

In stark contrast, here's a group of berger's new 133 hunting hybrids I just received and I loaded up a quick group just to try them out after this morning's testing of the PVA bullets. This is just a single random charge I chose shot through the fouled barrel from shooting the PVA's this morning.

I really can't figure out why I'm getting such poor results with the PVA's--though I have to admit I've never seen any bullet made by anyone with as sharp an ogive as they have.

[std7mag]

Stag,
Loading for mono's is different than lead core bullets.
They like a jump. Start at 0.050" off the lands.

Something i had read at one time was the use of a crimp.
Seems to help hold the bullet in the neck that extra nano second to allow pressure to build up and start into the rifling better.
It really helped WendyJ with her 7mm-08 when she switched over to mono's.

Just some thoughts.

[stagpanther]

Stag,
Loading for mono's is different than lead core bullets.
They like a jump. Start at 0.050" off the lands.

Something i had read at one time was the use of a crimp.
Seems to help hold the bullet in the neck that extra nano second to allow pressure to build up and start into the rifling better.
It really helped WendyJ with her 7mm-08 when she switched over to mono's.

Just some thoughts.

I've shot plenty of mono's--I commonly use cutting edge and Lehigh defense monos as well as Barnes--usually I can hit the sweet spot with them fairly easily. Varying the jump is a good idea, and I have tried that--but maybe I need to seat them even deeper.

Thing about mono's is how well they engage the rifling in any particular bore, and also being harder than a typical jacketed bullet they don't have the same give, so typically they don't have the same bearing surface depth/length that a jacketed does. many monos get around this by using some variation of drive bands. I can't really tell for sure what is going on with these bullets, though they seem to have an unusually long ogive relative to the base/bearing surface portion of the bullet. The bullet impacts don't show any signs of instability, so my going theory is that each bullet is leaving the bore on a slightly different trajectory. Of course, it could be me--but I seem to have little trouble getting nice groups with bigger Berger bullets. I just don't want to use up a quarter of my barrel's life trying to "unlock the mystery" of the PVA mono--I think I'll call the folks that make them and see what they advise--in general I've found PVA to have outstanding quality in the products of their's that I have bought and used.

I've also tried experimenting with the neck tension and changed the bushings in the die, Hornady brass tends to be a bit soft in my experience and bears watching for stretch/flow. The PRC case I'm learning can be a bit tricky in a tight chamber, though part of that I'm guessing could bee the result of necking down without doing any additional turning to the neck (I didn't do any). My next "really big" investment is going to be a professional annealer--I can see where one would really be a big help with the PRC case. One issue I found out pretty quickly is if you try to bump the shoulder back, the case can form an OD donut at the base of the shoulder which in turn can prevent the shoulder from seating properly to the shoulder datum in the chamber.

[stagpanther]

I went out today and shot the same Berger loads that I shot yesterday--except that the bore was clean. Based on what happened today I think I know what is going on, and I don't think the poor results I've been getting with the PVA Seneca bullets are the fault of the bullets (sorry PVA).

So yesterday's nice group was shot through the bore that had been fouled with 8 shots of the PVA bullets without cleaning. Today, I shot two groups of the same Berger loads--except that they were traveling down a clean bore. The barrel's bore, when immaculate, feels a bit like driving down a dirt road deep in the mountains of West Virginia when running a snug patch through. My first eight shots today started at low velocities and generally ramped up with each successive shot (same charge weights), the last three of which stabilized at very close velocities and grouped very close together. Although the barrel is one of the most expensive ones I've ever bought even among top-tier manufacturers, that performance feature of "fouling in accuracy" relegates this barrel to perhaps occasional hunting in my book.

[BornFighting88]

Did your barrel maker give you a “break in” method?? The carbon6 tube I bought said no break in, but don’t be afraid to foul the bore with a shot or two, and then start taking your information after that.

Even with my factory Win70, cold clean bore shooting has been, for lack of a better pun, hit or miss. I got lucky with deer season last year and waffled one 150 yards away RIGHT where I aimed. But then again, Minute of Deer is a very forgiving window of opportunity.
=-p

But at the range, when I cook off the first round just to foul the bore, I get consistent ragged hole patterns at 100 yards, three leaf clover things. After three shots, gets a bit toasty and gets fliers.

Stag, would you consider fouling the bore the week or day before hunting season and just leaving it fouled overnight and carrying it afield that way??

For this Mauser I am in process of putting together, I am hoping for long range accuracy, and if I have to foul it before I get anything done, so be it.

Some also suggest “cutting the burrs” out of whatever may have raised up from cutting the rifling. Thoughts??

[stagpanther]

I've decided to get back to work on this project, I just prepared some 135 gr Berger hybrid loads. While cleaning the bore and examining it I was rather surprised to see how much incipient fire cracking in the throat had already started--I doubt I've fired even 100 cartridges through it. My impression is that this is a definite over-bore cartridge--and I'm guessing the pursuit of high velocity loads which the cartridge is capable contributes to the accelerated rate of wear. I'm going to be backing my loads off to well below max velocity potential while I figure out what to do about this. It's a shame, because it's otherwise a great easy shooting cartridge with excellent ballistics. I could also be using the wrong powders, though I've stuck with what others have used.

[ligonierbill]

Let us know how it works out. Any high intensity cartridge will wear your barrel faster than, say, a 30-06. But if you shoot a lot, barrel replacement is just part of the game. The Woodleigh reloading manual relates how one of their guys has a 30-06 he particularly likes, and at the time of publication he was on his fourth barrel.

[stagpanther]

Let us know how it works out. Any high intensity cartridge will wear your barrel faster than, say, a 30-06. But if you shoot a lot, barrel replacement is just part of the game. The Woodleigh reloading manual relates how one of their guys has a 30-06 he particularly likes, and at the time of publication he was on his fourth barrel.

This is such a specialty niche cartridge, I do read of some use of it on the comp circuit but seems like the comp shooters are drifting more to the SAUM. What's undeniable is the spectacular ballistics of the new super-efficient 25 cal projectiles. Very negligible recoil for a rifle that will put them out fast, far and flat. I hear you on the barrel, the one I got wasn't made by the manufacturer I really wanted to have do it--but like everything else those guys are backed up a year or more, so I plan on burning this one out just in case-forming and load development.

[stagpanther]

Speaking of relative costs for new barrels--I just found a source for 6.5 PRC ammo (which I'm taking apart just for the brass) and 60 cartridges cost me almost as much as a higher quality new barrel would.

[std7mag]

You might want to try VV160, instead of the VV560.
While velocities will be down some, it supposedly burns cooler.

[stagpanther]

You might want to try VV160, instead of the VV560.
While velocities will be down some, it supposedly burns cooler.

I'll have to check to see if I have some. It seems like load data--what little there is--is all over the map for the 25, usually the assumption seems to be what's good for the 6.5 is good for the 25. I'm not so sure about that. Enduron powders and especially Alliant's reloders have been missing from the market for a long time, unfortunately--I really have a critical lack of reloader 22, 23 and 26. I did buy an 8 lb'r of 4000 MR and am curious about how well it works.

[sako2]

Stag do you have Ramshot magnum? How bout hybrid 100? Barnes has data on the hybrid. I'm glad i got my components for the 6.5 before this pandemic and Joe hit us.

[stagpanther]

Stag do you have Ramshot magnum? How bout hybrid 100? Barnes has data on the hybrid. I'm glad i got my components for the 6.5 before this pandemic and Joe hit us.

Yes--I have plenty of ram magnum, as you can see by one of the random test loads above it seems to shoot very well with it. I'll come back to it at some point, I just want to try some other powders since I have other magnum "gas guzzler" cartridges that I also fuel with ram magnum. Was anxious to get out today to do some testing--but we got ten inches of new snow last night so I think all I'm going to do is rezero my HD5 since I put a new Warne 20 MOA steel rail on my rifle.

[std7mag]

I'm thinking the Alliant PP4000MR may be a touch fast burning for your likes.
Some burn rate charts putting it in the 4350/RL17 speed.
It does seem to do well in cartridges with capacity in the high 40gr to about 56gr. (Read 284 Win & 280 Rem)
Go larger capacity, or heavy bullet weights & the velocity really drops off.

Hybrid 100V is my go to for the 257 Roberts with 100-115gr bullet weights.
Used in my 7mm Rem Mag with 150-168gr bullets, accuracy was good, velocities nothing to write home about.
Does, just ok in my 257 Roberts AI.

On the subject of burn rate with 25 caliber.
My 250 Savage seems to like a faster burn speed powder than what i would expect.
I'm using Alliant Varmint with 75 and 90gr bullets to good effect, with good velocities.
RL17 with 100gr & 115gr bullets isn't showing the velocities i was hoping for. Nor was H414 (W760).
I may have to play with a faster burning powder on those.