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Old October 14, 2018, 08:13 PM   #1
Mr.RevolverGuy
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Would you or do you carry 10MM for self defense?

Underwood 150gr 10MM Penetration, Expansion and Velocity Testing


Penetration, expansion and velocity test of the Underwood Ammo 10mm 150gr grain Nosler JHP using Clear Ballistics Gelatin. 10MM is often thought of as a hunting cartridge only. I was looking for a self defense round in 10MM that would not over penetrate and yet have great expansion.

https://youtu.be/rE0-i90xjpU

Advertise velocity of this ammunition on the box is 1500fps. I am unaware of the barrel length used by Underwood ammo to reach said velocity. I will be utilizing of course a revolver, S&W 610 with a 3 7/8in barrel and a Colt Delta Elite XE Gen 2 with a 5in barrel. These two pistols are most likely what I would be carrying in 10MM as a back woods companion to a hunting rifle. This application is for thin skin animal protection and against 2 legged predators looking for potential easy pray.

Would you carry or do you carry 10MM for self defense? Let me know in the comments.

Safety Warning
Please understand that these test will not represent real world scenarios. There are too many factors involved in a self-defense scenario to offer a 100% guarantee. It is very important to practice and train for the scenario’s you expect to encounter with your firearm and ammunition of choice as there is no compensation for great shot placement.

Ultimately YOU are responsible to ensure your pistol of choice is in great working condition. Please make sure you are using the correct cartridge for your firearm, and always follow safe firearm handling procedures.

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Old October 14, 2018, 08:22 PM   #2
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Nope.
LOTS more choices with 9mm.
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Old October 14, 2018, 08:36 PM   #3
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Yes, I would.
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Old October 14, 2018, 08:46 PM   #4
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Yes, But...

For 2 legged predators I don't see where the 10mm offers any real advantage over the better 9mm, 40, 45, or 357 loads, magnum or Sig. The better loads in those cartridges are very effective with good shot placement. Even the mighty 44 magnum doesn't seem to give any better results than 9mm on humans.

But I think of the 10mm as being the 357 mag of semi's. You can load either 10mm or 357 mag with loads suitable to stop big bear, both have loads shooting 200 gr hardcast bullets to 1300 fps. Or you can load them down to light 40 S&W or 38 Special levels. Just as a 357 revolver is very versatile so is the 10mm in a semi. You can't match that versatility with any other semi-auto round.

If I'm somewhere where there is zero possibility of needing a gun to protect myself from 4 legged predators the 10mm stays home in favor of a more compact, lighter recoiling pistol. Usually in 9mm.

But I often hunt, camp, or hike in areas where there is a real threat of large predator attack. For example in 2 weeks I'll be driving to Colorado to elk hunt. I'll only take one pistol with me and it will be the G29. When on the road it'll be loaded with 16 rounds of 155 gr bullets @ about 1400 fps suitable for 2 legged predators. In camp, and hopefully while processing a downed elk it will have 200 gr DoubleTap ammo in it in case there are any bear issues. It is easy enough to just swap magazines with the appropriate ammo.

I like the 10mm, but if I were the type of person who never ventured into areas where large predators protection were a concern I'd probably not buy one.

And if I were handgun "hunting" I think the magnum revolver rounds from 6" or longer barrels are a better option. The longer barrels and better triggers produce better accuracy and more bullet speed than possible from a semi in 10mm. But the 10mm loads are certainly powerful enough for hunting anything you'd hunt with a magnum revolver.

For protection the more compact size, and added rounds are a plus compared to a revolver. Compared to 3-4" barreled revolvers 10mm is a lot smaller, lighter, and slightly beats the best 357 mag loads. It matches 41 mag loads and comes very close to 44 mag loads when they are fired from 4" or shorter barrels. But when you start shooting the magnums from longer barrels they outclass 10mm.
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Old October 14, 2018, 09:05 PM   #5
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No
I think carrying a 10 mm in the field in a semiauto pistol or better a carbine that used Glock magazine would be great .The bullets for the 10mm just keep getting better.
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Old October 15, 2018, 01:02 AM   #6
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No, a 45 is a much better choice for self defense.

I own a G20 and I feel like the 10mm is way over hyped. It's a decent cartridge, but it is inferior to a Magnum revolver. Period.

No one needs 16 rounds of semi-auto to hunt with so why give up the power for a 10mm? Carry a 9mm or a 45 for self defense from other people, and a Magnum revolver for big game.

The lowly 357 Magnum can equal or exceed the 10mm, never mind the 41 or 44 Magnum which leave it in the dust bin.

Just IMO of course....
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Old October 15, 2018, 01:37 AM   #7
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Nah. I hate chasing brass too much for those times when I'm not in the woods.

I suspect a .357 would better meet my needs, although a 10mm revolver might be cool if you could also fire .40 in it.
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Old October 15, 2018, 05:39 AM   #8
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Yes, with a bullet designed for expansion like 150-180 JHP.

In before anyone posts incorrect blanket generalization about 10mm being overpenetrative.
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Old October 15, 2018, 05:44 AM   #9
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Great answers guys --- JMR40 great synopsis though 10MM for hunting with the right load in a single action blackhawk 6inch barrel is a formidable pair.

We all know reloading there are many things we can do to change the characteristics of a round but sticking with SAAMI spec from shops like Underwood, Doubletap or Buffalo Bore the 10MM is a hunter also. I have seen what it does to hogs. Versatility is awesome!
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Old October 15, 2018, 07:26 AM   #10
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It wouldn't be my first choice. But if I had to rush out of the house and it was the only thing loaded/handy, I wouldn't feel unarmed.
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Old October 15, 2018, 08:52 AM   #11
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Have done so and will do so again. When I go hunting with the boys or friends and do not have a tag myself, I typically carry the G20 or the Razorback. I also carry the G20 when I am pig hunting with the 10mm Carbine, which uses Glock mags. Carried the 610 a few times.
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Old October 15, 2018, 09:02 AM   #12
Mr.RevolverGuy
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I am so jealous that you have a 10MM carbine
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Old October 15, 2018, 05:29 PM   #13
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I'd rather have a .45
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Old October 15, 2018, 07:00 PM   #14
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I would, but haven't.
For "street" use, I'd go with a "10mm Lite" load, 180 or 200 JHP at 1000fps.
For woods walking, 200gr solid at 1200fps.
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Old October 15, 2018, 07:15 PM   #15
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I purchased my 10mm when a bear was spotted in a community some 50 miles away. Each year, there are bear sightings closer and closer to the city where I live. Once someone spots a bear downtown, I'll start packing my 10mm. Until then, I'll settle for something a little less powerful.

My town:

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Old October 15, 2018, 09:49 PM   #16
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I would, but not my first choice
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Old October 16, 2018, 08:02 AM   #17
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Nope, but mostly because I can't see adding yet another caliber to accumulate. That's pretty much why 40 and 41 and 25 and some other calibers are not considered.

I'm at that stage where a new caliber would have to solve a recognized problem not met by anything I have now so handguns and ammo and accessories all need to fit into the current accumulation.
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Old October 16, 2018, 10:22 AM   #18
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Any gun will do if you can do a good job with that gun.

Some guns are more powerful, more accurate and more reliable. I personally put functional reliability at the top of the list, then I place accuracy and power as equally important, but there is a point at which increasing accuracy is of no concern. That point is when the gun outshoots you from any hasty-support. If you can shoot 2" and Gun A shoots 1/4" with gun B shooting 2" you will not be able to tell any difference in your ability to make hits with either one.

I am like probably every one reading this. I am a gun-fan. I like guns and I enjoy them, and like all of you, I like hashing over details.
But as a former marine and a former DOD Adviser, I also have a 1st hand prospective when it comes to fighting and I can assure everyone here that hits are 100% the function of the shooter, not the weapon being shot. Hit's count. Misses don't, unless they count against you. They will count against you the large majority of shootings in the civilian world.

ALL bullets you fire will hit...............something!

This is where power comes into focus. Power in never a bad thing for killing game or an enemy, but can and often is a bad thing for anything or anyone behind an enemy. In war, we don't care that much. In a civilian contest, a 44 magnum with a hard cast bullet will kill criminals as well as it will kill deer or elk, but most criminals will not be shot out in the wilderness. So Rule #4 comes into play, and you are 100% responsible for ALL bullet you fire and ALL damages done by that bullet. A 10MM with a light fast hollow point would be fine in my opinion, but I would not want to carry ammo in it that I could depend on to exit an elk if I were carrying said 10MM in a city. Same with a 357 Magnum 41 magnum 44 magnum 45 colt or 454 Casull. All of them would be very effective if you shoot them well, but so would other calibers that are less likely to shoot through the enemy and also through the house behind him.

Anyway, the issue to me is far more about ammo and shooting ability then it is about caliber. I carry a 44 magnum very often and sometimes I carry it in town concealed (I live far out in the country, so going to town is an "event" for me) When I go to town if I carry my 44 I always change ammo to a 180 grain HP load which I have shot deer with, and found the bullets don't exit most times.

The whole truth is that I have also carried 22s, 38s 9MMs, 380s, 41 mags, 45 ACPs and other guns at times in different places because it either was what I could get, or it was what I happened to have at the time and I never been unarmed. But I love to shoot and when I was a younger man I was able to do quite a lot of trick shooting and hit clay birds in the air, thrown bottles and on a few occasions I hunted chucker and quail with only a handgun and did ok, bringing back enough game to feed myself and my wife. No bragging is intended, but I can say without embarrassment that I was a VERY good pistol shot from the time I was about 14 until I was about 53 years old. Now, in my 60s I have lost 65% of my vision and so I am not able to do that kind of shooting anymore.

Carry any gun that works 99.999% of the time and is as accurate or more accurate then you are, but shoot it enough that it becomes like an extension of your will. YOU are the weapon, the gun is just the tool.
In my military days they didn't send my guns to troubled areas. They sent me. It's not about the gun, it's about the man who uses the gun.

Dry Fire is your friend. Do it every day. Morning and evening is best. Even if only 2 minutes a day, if you do so, you gain an ability to align the sights, and break the sear faster and far more precisely, and it doesn't take as much time as you would think. Dry fire improves your skill and live fire validates the progress. You should dry fire the gun 200 times for every live round you fire. If you practice it every day for a few minutes you'll find you "click" the gun about 300-500 times a day. So my ratio above is not exaggerated.

Never try to get faster. Let that come by itself. It will. Click or fire your gun when it's correctly aligned and let the practice make aligning faster because of less and less wasted motion. But do not click or fire faster to "improve times" That's for winning games, not fights.

In my experience, when you fight for real, take your time. Take NO MORE TIME then you need, but take what you NEED to make a hit.

Remember, ALL round you fire in a fight will hit............Something....or someone.

Don't miss.

When we see all the videos on line today of cops and crooks firing at each other, 99% of the viewers miss the point completely. What they see is one of 2 things in most vids, and they don't perceive the lessons.

Thing #1 is BangBangbang BangBangBangBangBangBangbang BangBangBangBangBangBangbang BangBangBangBang until someone gets lucky, and someone else gets unlucky. Crooks usually loose because A. they are untrained and B they are outnumbered, but many times a cop gets hit too.

Thing #2 is the same as above but as soon as someone slows down and takes an extra second to aim, someone else gets hit.

Learn by the mistakes of others.
Keep cool and aim.

Carry what you like and learn to use it, and stop worrying about all the smaller details before you are able to hit well. If you can't yet hit a 6" ball rolling down a bumpy hill 15 yards in front of you, what you shoot is not yet relevant. When you can hit that ball 80% of the time you will have some good reason to start thinking about calibers and loads as the next level of your training. Dry fire and cheap ammo are what you need, until you can hit that ball 80% or more of the time.

Last edited by Wyosmith; October 16, 2018 at 10:27 AM.
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Old October 16, 2018, 11:14 AM   #19
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No I will stick with my .45 acp that I have carried almost 50 years.
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Old October 16, 2018, 11:21 AM   #20
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For SD against 2 legged predators in urban settings, i think the ammo you ask about is too hot.

Remember the FBI’s attempt to bring the 10mm into service? When all was said and done they chose a 180gn @ 950 (and the 40sw was born). Excessive muzzle blast and recoil caused them to seek a downloaded version of the 10mm for people uses.

If you have a 10mm for woods use, go heavy. If you are using it in the city, 10mm lite is your best option
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Old October 16, 2018, 11:35 AM   #21
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The 10mm is pretty much the same as a .45 ACP. So it's a Chev vs Ford comparison.
"...10MM that would not over penetrate..." Cast bullet. Maybe.
You have far more to be concerned about in any urban environment than Yogi.
"...the FBI’s attempt..." Was about trying to overcome inadequate training with a bigger calibre.
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Old October 16, 2018, 12:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
The 10mm is pretty much the same as a .45 ACP.
The full house “original” loading was a 200gn bullet @ 1200fps. No 45acp load even comes close. Todays ammo offering for that caliber run the spectrum from light 40s&w loadings to magnum stuff that comes close to 41mag ballistics.

The op describes one of the latter type loads for SD use.
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Old October 16, 2018, 12:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
Would you or do you carry 10MM for self defense?
No.


For a very simple reason. I don't own one, and I'm not going to buy one. I have several guns below and above 10mm and their capabilities overlap enough that there is nothing a 10mm offers me, except a way to spend money, uselessly.
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Old October 16, 2018, 01:21 PM   #24
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Not for me, I prefer to have more rounds of good quality 9mm at my disposal for self defense.
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Old October 17, 2018, 06:35 PM   #25
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I use to carry my 357 mag when I walked the woods. I came across a SBH at a very reasonable price and I could not say no to it. I now carry the SBH Hunter 7 1/2 inch barrel. When I saw what it did to a Quart jug of water with a 180 grain bullet I was impressed. I think it will work pretty good on the hogs once the weather cools down and they come out of the marsh.
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