Pistolsmithin' - Page 2

Dave Sample · March 31, 2005, 03:40 PM

To answer the question, Yes and No. Teddy (Actions by T) installs a set screw in triggers sometimes both ways and does a very good job of it. I used to cut a flap in the stirrup up in the curved area by the magazine catch and bend it to suit my tastes for prep. I used a lot of different triggers through the years and now like the CMC trigger group for our Online 1911's.
There is no where in the frame to put a screw that I can think of. The stirrup is up against the magazine catch up front and that limits the travel both ways. The sear spring keeps it pressed forward when at rest and the magazine catch stops it when it goes back regardless of any overtravel device.
I have 6 Speed Triggers that have stirrups that look like the CMC stirrups. I really don't know who made them but I sure like them. There is a nice picture of them in the previous issue of American Handgunner in Alex Hamilton's column.

brandx · April 1, 2005, 02:08 AM

The trigger STIRRUP does not press against the mag catch. The trigger shoe does and if it has a stop screw, the screw will hit the mag catch if adjusted correctly.
You CAN put a set screw on either side of the frame to adjust "prep"/take up. On some pistols, because of tolerance stack up of the various parts, zero take up wil result in the hammer half cock notch not engaging.
Nowlin also makes a trigger with a tab for adjusting take up.

Dave Sample · April 1, 2005, 11:27 AM

Sorry. You are right about the triggers with overtravel screws, of course. The stirrup does sit above the magazine catch and the shoe would hit the catch. I was visualizing the area in the frame that the trigger rides in without the mag catch installed. How silly of me. I am glad you caught that detail. Where on the frame do you put these screws? That is a very interesting concept. I have never seen that done before on a 1911. Eager minds want to know. Perhaps a picture of that process? You must be a very talented smith to do that kind of work!

Tamara · April 1, 2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Nowlin also makes a trigger with a tab for adjusting take up.

So does Wilson. I think it's part #160.

Anyone know if the Mg/Ti triggers from Dlask offer this?

Handy · April 1, 2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Where on the frame do you put these screws?

Seems like you could put them on either side of the trigger shoe so they would contact the trigger bow where it angles to merge behind the shoe. The area where a contour cut was added between the 1911 and 1911A1.

brandx · April 1, 2005, 03:34 PM

Exactly, Handy.
Dave, I've been building guns for local IPSC( and now IDPA) shooters and doing repairs/tuning for 17 years. I've run into my share of head scratchers over the years and I learn something new nearly every time I de-bug a 1911. It's kind of funny when a customer brings in a pistol I built/worked on 10-12 years ago, I take it apart and see something that makes me think "What the hell was I thinking when I did that!!".
Keep up the good work.

Dave Sample · April 1, 2005, 06:37 PM

Amen Brandx, I just cut a comp off of a race gun that I built a long time ago and the beavertail is Butt Ugly.
I know what we could do, but I know what I won't do. Don Williams and I agree that it could be done by angling a screw in right in the frame by the finger cuts up front and it would be ugly, but it would work. The question in my mind is? Why? I am old and lazy and have been that way ever since I can remember. I will use the stirrups we have available now, thank you. I used to silver soder on a piece of shim on the back of the stirrup. Remember that one? Yuk! We are very lucky to have the aftermarket parts we have today! Nice to have you here playing with us. I am still in the learning stage as you may have noticed. Romulus is teaching me to spell!

Handy · April 1, 2005, 06:42 PM

Wasn't me, Dave.

Dave Sample · April 1, 2005, 06:45 PM

I can read readin' and write writin', but I can't read writin'. I did edit it. "I wish I had of kissed the SOB!" "Georgie Patton: 1943"

brandx · April 1, 2005, 09:50 PM

Actually it doesn't come out that ugly. Use a 4-40 allen set screw short enough to sit flush or slightly below the surface.Why do it? Because I can and it does make it easy to adjust take up to exactly where I want it. I have one of the silver soldered triggers in my parts bin. It's a very early short/steel, chrome plated, no less.

XavierBreath · April 1, 2005, 10:29 PM

That's exactly what I am talking about brandx. It seems to me if it were done well, it would be no uglier than a screw on adjustable sights, and the benefit would be that you could adjust pretravel to exactly what you wanted with no trial and error. It also seems as if you would need only one set screw.
Is that your experience?

brandx · April 2, 2005, 03:20 AM

One screw works fine. You can put it on either side, makes no difference. Dave has a point ,too, tabs on the trigger bow don't leave any holes in the frame. I wouldn't do it to a pistol I had plans to sell.

Hunter Customs · April 2, 2005, 08:28 AM

STI makes a single stack trigger with the pretravel tabs. The set screw works very well for those with machining capabilities. In the past set screws were installed in the mainspring housing to give one the capability to adjust the trigger pull weight.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

Tamara · April 2, 2005, 09:25 AM

Quote:

STI makes a single stack trigger with the pretravel tabs.

Brownell's hosed me when I tried to order one for my Delta Elite. I have them in three of my other guns, and am impressed with their quality, but was distressed by Brownell's claim that they had been discontinued. (They're still listed on STI's site.) I was curious about the Dlask unit, as I've used other parts from them before and was quite pleased with their execution.

Hunter Customs · April 2, 2005, 11:04 AM

Tamara,
The last word I received from Brownell's is the same answer you received they are no longer available. So I did a little looking around they are available, just stocked five more in the shops parts bin yesterday.
Excellent triggers the best I've ever used.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

Dave Sample · April 2, 2005, 01:56 PM

Triggers are a dirty word around here right now. I have 15 backordered and whoever makes them is taking their time.
Set screws in the frame are not me. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I like to keep those things out of sight. I am sure it's a neat trick for machinists, but like Bob said. I would not want to do it for a gun I would not keep. I have seen set screws in the darndest places in 1911's as Bob probably has through the years.
I install a set screw in the frame of 1873 type SA's but it is out of sight. It is my adjustable hammer stop and it works great for these kind of guns. I am going to do one today for a new Colt 4th generation that needs some help bad. I am glad they went back to the 1st generation cylinder bushing because it makes it easier to get the end shake out. I never liked the pressed in bushings.
The days of yesteryear were days of daily invention. Some turned out good, some did not. I always liked to work with brand new parts of known specs. That does not mean it's the right way, it is just MY way.

Dean Taylor · April 2, 2005, 03:10 PM

I have been able to get STI parts from Dave Dawson a few times when not abailable else where.

Dean
[email protected]
410-952-7848

Jammer Six · April 3, 2005, 02:14 PM

Can't help but notice your finger on the trigger, Dave.

I imagine you have a good reason for it, but it hurts my eyes.

Good to see you posting in public again!

Dave Sample · April 4, 2005, 11:53 AM

Thanks Jammer! I have my finger on a lot of triggers in my shop where I have made the safety checks prior to taking the pictures. I was testing a trigger pull one day with a client in the shop and he was laughing at me because I was pointing the gun up at the sky and there was no top end on it! I did not realize how picky I was about gun safety till then!
I hope you are well and having fun with your group of pals on the other forums! You are an interesting man. Other than the trigger finger, did you have any other comments about the guns?

Jammer Six · April 4, 2005, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Other than the trigger finger, did you have any other comments about the guns?

Nope. That finger gave me tunnel vision, and made it hard for me to see th gun.

Dave Sample · April 4, 2005, 07:33 PM

Here's lookin at you, Kid...................................Another tunnel to look at!

April 1, 2005, 10:29 PM	#36
XavierBreath Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2002 Location: North Louisiana Posts: 2,800	That's exactly what I am talking about brandx. It seems to me if it were done well, it would be no uglier than a screw on adjustable sights, and the benefit would be that you could adjust pretravel to exactly what you wanted with no trial and error. It also seems as if you would need only one set screw. Is that your experience? __________________ Xavier's Blog

April 3, 2005, 02:14 PM	#43
Jammer Six Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 827	Can't help but notice your finger on the trigger, Dave. I imagine you have a good reason for it, but it hurts my eyes. Good to see you posting in public again! __________________ "Huh?" --Jammer Six, 1998

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March 31, 2005, 03:40 PM	#26
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	To answer the question, Yes and No. Teddy (Actions by T) installs a set screw in triggers sometimes both ways and does a very good job of it. I used to cut a flap in the stirrup up in the curved area by the magazine catch and bend it to suit my tastes for prep. I used a lot of different triggers through the years and now like the CMC trigger group for our Online 1911's. There is no where in the frame to put a screw that I can think of. The stirrup is up against the magazine catch up front and that limits the travel both ways. The sear spring keeps it pressed forward when at rest and the magazine catch stops it when it goes back regardless of any overtravel device. I have 6 Speed Triggers that have stirrups that look like the CMC stirrups. I really don't know who made them but I sure like them. There is a nice picture of them in the previous issue of American Handgunner in Alex Hamilton's column.

April 1, 2005, 02:08 AM	#27
brandx Member Join Date: December 8, 2004 Posts: 41	The trigger STIRRUP does not press against the mag catch. The trigger shoe does and if it has a stop screw, the screw will hit the mag catch if adjusted correctly. You CAN put a set screw on either side of the frame to adjust "prep"/take up. On some pistols, because of tolerance stack up of the various parts, zero take up wil result in the hammer half cock notch not engaging. Nowlin also makes a trigger with a tab for adjusting take up.

April 1, 2005, 11:27 AM	#28
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	Sorry. You are right about the triggers with overtravel screws, of course. The stirrup does sit above the magazine catch and the shoe would hit the catch. I was visualizing the area in the frame that the trigger rides in without the mag catch installed. How silly of me. I am glad you caught that detail. Where on the frame do you put these screws? That is a very interesting concept. I have never seen that done before on a 1911. Eager minds want to know. Perhaps a picture of that process? You must be a very talented smith to do that kind of work!

April 1, 2005, 03:34 PM	#31
brandx Member Join Date: December 8, 2004 Posts: 41	Exactly, Handy. Dave, I've been building guns for local IPSC( and now IDPA) shooters and doing repairs/tuning for 17 years. I've run into my share of head scratchers over the years and I learn something new nearly every time I de-bug a 1911. It's kind of funny when a customer brings in a pistol I built/worked on 10-12 years ago, I take it apart and see something that makes me think "What the hell was I thinking when I did that!!". Keep up the good work.

April 1, 2005, 06:37 PM	#32
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	Amen Brandx, I just cut a comp off of a race gun that I built a long time ago and the beavertail is Butt Ugly. I know what we could do, but I know what I won't do. Don Williams and I agree that it could be done by angling a screw in right in the frame by the finger cuts up front and it would be ugly, but it would work. The question in my mind is? Why? I am old and lazy and have been that way ever since I can remember. I will use the stirrups we have available now, thank you. I used to silver soder on a piece of shim on the back of the stirrup. Remember that one? Yuk! We are very lucky to have the aftermarket parts we have today! Nice to have you here playing with us. I am still in the learning stage as you may have noticed. Romulus is teaching me to spell!

April 1, 2005, 06:42 PM	#33
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	Wasn't me, Dave.

April 1, 2005, 06:45 PM	#34
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	I can read readin' and write writin', but I can't read writin'. I did edit it. "I wish I had of kissed the SOB!" "Georgie Patton: 1943"

April 1, 2005, 09:50 PM	#35
brandx Member Join Date: December 8, 2004 Posts: 41	Actually it doesn't come out that ugly. Use a 4-40 allen set screw short enough to sit flush or slightly below the surface.Why do it? Because I can and it does make it easy to adjust take up to exactly where I want it. I have one of the silver soldered triggers in my parts bin. It's a very early short/steel, chrome plated, no less.

April 2, 2005, 03:20 AM	#37
brandx Member Join Date: December 8, 2004 Posts: 41	One screw works fine. You can put it on either side, makes no difference. Dave has a point ,too, tabs on the trigger bow don't leave any holes in the frame. I wouldn't do it to a pistol I had plans to sell.

April 2, 2005, 08:28 AM	#38
Hunter Customs Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Osborn, Missouri Posts: 2,697	STI makes a single stack trigger with the pretravel tabs. The set screw works very well for those with machining capabilities. In the past set screws were installed in the mainspring housing to give one the capability to adjust the trigger pull weight. Regards Bob Hunter www.huntercustoms.com

April 2, 2005, 11:04 AM	#40
Hunter Customs Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Osborn, Missouri Posts: 2,697	Tamara, The last word I received from Brownell's is the same answer you received they are no longer available. So I did a little looking around they are available, just stocked five more in the shops parts bin yesterday. Excellent triggers the best I've ever used. Regards Bob Hunter www.huntercustoms.com

April 2, 2005, 01:56 PM	#41
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	Triggers are a dirty word around here right now. I have 15 backordered and whoever makes them is taking their time. Set screws in the frame are not me. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I like to keep those things out of sight. I am sure it's a neat trick for machinists, but like Bob said. I would not want to do it for a gun I would not keep. I have seen set screws in the darndest places in 1911's as Bob probably has through the years. I install a set screw in the frame of 1873 type SA's but it is out of sight. It is my adjustable hammer stop and it works great for these kind of guns. I am going to do one today for a new Colt 4th generation that needs some help bad. I am glad they went back to the 1st generation cylinder bushing because it makes it easier to get the end shake out. I never liked the pressed in bushings. The days of yesteryear were days of daily invention. Some turned out good, some did not. I always liked to work with brand new parts of known specs. That does not mean it's the right way, it is just MY way.

April 2, 2005, 03:10 PM	#42
Dean Taylor Member Join Date: April 2, 2005 Posts: 15	I have been able to get STI parts from Dave Dawson a few times when not abailable else where. Dean [email protected] 410-952-7848

April 4, 2005, 11:53 AM	#44
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	Thanks Jammer! I have my finger on a lot of triggers in my shop where I have made the safety checks prior to taking the pictures. I was testing a trigger pull one day with a client in the shop and he was laughing at me because I was pointing the gun up at the sky and there was no top end on it! I did not realize how picky I was about gun safety till then! I hope you are well and having fun with your group of pals on the other forums! You are an interesting man. Other than the trigger finger, did you have any other comments about the guns?

April 4, 2005, 07:33 PM	#46
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	Here's lookin at you, Kid...................................Another tunnel to look at!