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Old August 24, 2018, 03:14 AM   #26
Dr. Strangelove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenMauser
Depending upon what loads you're using, the difference in drop at 200 yards (w/ 100 yd zero) between .30-30 and .270 Win is as little as 3.2" at 200 yards -- with the .30-30 launching a heavier bullet.

That's nothing, in terms of "hunting accuracy".

Yes, I prefer better, myself. But it's still not much of an issue.
.30-30 may not look as good on paper, but it's not worth an outright dismissal, either.


I'll give you that.

Given the rifles and parameters in the OP's question, the .30-30win would still be my last choice for 250yd shots, while still definitely capable of such if the need arose.

The .270 is still going to be hitting the target at 250yds with considerably more kinetic energy, again it depends on projectile composition and target composition how you chose to use that energy.

A heavier or lighter bullet doesn't really mean anything, depending on bullet composition, relative impact velocities and whatever it is you wish to do to the target.
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Old August 24, 2018, 04:55 AM   #27
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I'm a huge fan of the .308 cartridge.

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Old August 24, 2018, 07:20 AM   #28
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Old August 24, 2018, 11:49 AM   #29
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Agreed and understood, Dr. Strangelove.
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Old August 24, 2018, 05:01 PM   #30
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If it was only white tail deer I'd go with the .243 Win. The reason I'd pick that one is because of ammunition availability and recoil. The .243 Win is flat out easy to shoot and at 250 yards on deer it does everything I need.

However, since the OP listed the entire lower 48 states, I'm going to assume he primarily hunts white tail deer but possibly wants to hunt other game. I personally chose the .270 over 20 years ago and don't regret that decision for one second. Today if I were to buy a rifle I'd probably pick up a .308 over everything else.

Ammunition availability and variety is a huge factor in that decision, even if you hand load the data Ford a .308 far exceeds that of my beloved .270 Win. At the ranges the OP is looking at shooting external ballistics don't matter at all, he could even double that range and it really wouldn't change things. The only other cartridge on the list that matches the versatility of the .308 is the .30-06, but I still like the .308 slightly better.
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Old August 27, 2018, 10:33 AM   #31
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I think if I had to choose just one, it would probably be the 30-06. It's very versatile but with the heavier bullet's it has a little too much recoil to enjoy it. I enjoy shooting the .270 or .243 but not if it was a survival thing. Thanks for the input...
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Old August 27, 2018, 11:26 AM   #32
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I find it peculiar that a few times a very low recoiling cartridge was chosen because of that alone. I have mostly used a .270 Win with 130 grn BST and never felt the recoil was much and the rifle wasn’t heavy, and that’s not to say I’m not recoil sensitive as I found dove hunting with a pump 20 ga to become a bit more than I cared for after an hour or so.

Quite frankly I’ve always felt short action cartridges were ideal and favor the higher BC of the 7mm bullets available (which could be said about the 6.5mm as well). When comparing different calibers I’ve generally used SD to make it closer to apples to apples to my thinking.
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Old August 27, 2018, 04:42 PM   #33
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8) .308.

Even though I have hunting rifles in 357mag, 30-30, 300 Savage, 30-06, and .308, as I'm hunting in Colorado with large game, I'd choose the .308 as it's got the best combination of power, lighter weight, and lower recoil. For anywhere in the lower 48 I feel that the .308 is perfectly adequate for ranges out to 350yds which I believe is about the limit for humane hunting.

Besides, 8 is my lucky number!!
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Old August 27, 2018, 05:54 PM   #34
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My choice for anything in the lower 48 is 7mm-08. For whitetail deer exclusively, from your list, I'd pick .243Win... or in real life, I picked .243AI, not because it's "better" but because it's different and unique.... but 7mm-08 is my favorite cartridge. I'd use it for anything between woodchucks and moose.
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Old August 27, 2018, 06:57 PM   #35
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None of thee above.
My choices would be 7mm-08, or 257 Roberts.
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Old August 27, 2018, 07:58 PM   #36
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Out of the choices on the list of probably not use any of them and go with the 7.92x57 Mauser.

It’s just one of my favorites & my go to.


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Old August 28, 2018, 12:04 AM   #37
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This old fellow has long set a personal shooting {yardage} limit when hunting his whitetails. 125 yards is my furthest shooting distance. I'm comfortable with that yardage I'll quickly find my deer no matter the lighting conditions. So.
The venerable 30wcf is my choice. Light weight firearm/s. Easy to operate. And always shoot well at my limited preferred range. Irregardless of factory Jacketed_ G/c cast_or paper patched. {my pro-ferred bullet of choice}

Years of hunting has taught me the longer the shot. The easier it is to be confused?~ just where the quarry last stood. Not knowing just where my deer last stood? Waste time in looking and immediately I can count on a long exhausting walk in the bush before the animals retrieval.

No thanks. I like my quarry properly taken care {butchered} as quick as possible i.e. "30-30 does it Best. Seldom a second shot required. No heavy cheater glass to tote. " Bang! flop. Brown is down for the count."
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Old August 28, 2018, 08:58 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger View Post
My choice for anything in the lower 48 is 7mm-08. For whitetail deer exclusively, from your list, I'd pick .243Win... or in real life, I picked .243AI, not because it's "better" but because it's different and unique.... but 7mm-08 is my favorite cartridge. I'd use it for anything between woodchucks and moose.
Perhaps this is a conversation for elsewhere, but under what criteria/circumstances (distances, bullet weight, etc..) would you use 7mm-08 for elk? I have one, and I love it! It's my go-to white tail rifle every time.

While I'm a Virginian, my sister lives in Montana and we've been loosely planning an elk trip for some time. I've always thought I'd have to buy/borrow something bigger, but under the right circumstances, I'd love to use the 7mm-08.
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Old August 28, 2018, 09:08 AM   #39
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.270 or 30 06, I like the .270, it has a little less recoil and is powerful enough. One guy said overkill for some game. Ain't no such thing as too much gun but big guns do kick. AT 250 yards the .270 or 30 06 will do the jpob.
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Old August 28, 2018, 09:59 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest
Perhaps this is a conversation for elsewhere, but under what criteria/circumstances (distances, bullet weight, etc..) would you use 7mm-08 for elk?
I moved to Colorado in 2016 and decided to buy a dedicated elk rifle... my choice was a Tikka T3x in 7mm-08. In other words, my circumstances are "any". The argument has been had here too many times in the past, but what a lot of folks don't know is that it's not uncommon for youth and ladies to use a .243Win on elk.
Now, that video has been called a "parlor trick" another time I posted it... but ask yourself this... if a .243 can pull of that "parlor trick" at almost 700 yards, what logical claim is there to make that it's ineffective for any ordinary shot? I mean, she obviously brought that gun to hunt elk.

Now ask yourself, if that's a .243.... when would the 7mm-08 be ineffective?
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Old August 28, 2018, 10:10 AM   #41
Tallest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger View Post
I moved to Colorado in 2016 and decided to buy a dedicated elk rifle... my choice was a Tikka T3x in 7mm-08. In other words, my circumstances are "any". The argument has been had here too many times in the past, but what a lot of folks don't know is that it's not uncommon for youth and ladies to use a .243Win on elk.
Now, that video has been called a "parlor trick" another time I posted it... but ask yourself this... if a .243 can pull of that "parlor trick" at almost 700 yards, what logical claim is there to make that it's ineffective for any ordinary shot? I mean, she obviously brought that gun to hunt elk.

Now ask yourself, if that's a .243.... when would the 7mm-08 be ineffective?
My intention was not at all to argue or question its suitability, just to garner some real-world experience and insights.

I can see however, that my assumption of needing a bigger gun could have implied a criticism.
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Old August 28, 2018, 01:22 PM   #42
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Brian, I've posted that video as well and agree in the right situations a .243 will work well on elk. I do disagree with that it is very uncommon to find anyone carrying a .243 Win while hunting elk. There is no statistics to prove your claim true, nor to prove it's not true. However, in over 20 years of hunting elk I've never met anyone afield carrying one on an elk hunt other than my cousin as that was the only rifle he managed to keep in his divorce.

Also to put that video into context the guy doing all the talking was John Burns. John was one of the founding members of "Best of the West", specializing in long range hunting. This video was one he posted on several forums promoting his company Graybull Precision who built specialty long range hunting rifles. So that was a custom rifle using faster than factory twist barrel allowing the use of Berger 105 hunting VLD bullets that make a 700 yard shot easier than what can be accomplished with the standard factory twist .243 Win.

I to believe that the .243 Win is capable of cleanly taking elk. In my experience its use on elk is far from common. There are a lot more capable elk cartridges that won't beat "women and children" up so much they feel the need to use it for elk. Your 7-08 would be high on the list of those.
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Old August 28, 2018, 10:21 PM   #43
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest
I can see however, that my assumption of needing a bigger gun could have implied a criticism.
No sir, I apologize it that came across as combative. I didn't take your question that way and didn't mean to respond that way.... I may have been a tad "preemptive" about the anticipated response of others.
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Old August 28, 2018, 11:32 PM   #44
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interesting

Gotta tell you, I'm surprised at the number of positive, .308 responses. That said, the .308 would be my choice too. But.....

Over the years, helping at a check station, membership in a shooting club and several hunting leases, and listening to gun shop gossip, the .270 seems far more established and popular. As an example, I ran up on two Savage Axis rifles w/ budget scope, this month on a close out for $199 dollars. I just couldn't rationalize buying one, but it seemed a heck of a deal, so I called a pal who buys, sells and swaps a bunch of guns. He didn't want one, said he has a hard time moving .308's. I'd put the number of .270's I see in the woods, v. .308 at 4:1, and if you add the '06, maybe 8:1 or higher.

Similarly, I've had folks who were not "students" of the rifle, tell me that the .308 was just "too small" meaning the case, I guess. Small(er) case than the '06 or .270, ...TO THEM....., means less powder, means less power, and they don't want it. Never mind velocities, operating pressures, barrel lengths etc, the .308 looks softer than the '06 and the .270 and they aren't having it.

I started with a .308 (well, almost, I hunted a season with a .30 Rem, who all has heard of that old number!!!) in 1971, and likely have killed more deer with it than any other caliber I own. Part of that is because I became a bow snob for quite a few years,and since then, have hunted a lot of different calibers and been satisfied. But ....IF..... limited to one for whitetails,under 250yds, it would be a .308. Anybody that has shot one much knows it gives nothing up to the '06 afield with midrange deer bullets and all the variations rifle to rifle, , At 250 yds, nothing really trajectory wise either, concerning the .270. And the .308 is much more accommodating of a short carbine barrel, flash and blast and possibly velocity wise. Too, in a true short action, apples to apples, it will be a bit lighter than the long action calibers.

But I sure am surprised we are not seeing more .270 comments. Ol'Jack must be rolling in his grave!!!
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Old August 29, 2018, 07:30 AM   #45
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Ranger, I was in the pawn shop the other day checking out his inventory and he told me he's now having a hard time moving .270s. He's moving more short-action stuff than anything else.
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Old August 29, 2018, 07:44 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnusz View Post
30-06 In a good bolt gun it can be hand loaded for anything in the lower 48
Options for reloading and even bullet weight selection at the average store gives you
a lot of choices which are more difficult to find in other calibers. Maybe it depends on if you hunt just one animal type or a variety of game. For somebody who hunts a variety of game at different distances, you have a lot of room to work, with 30.06.
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Old August 29, 2018, 09:43 AM   #47
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As long as it's about whitetails, I'd likely stay with my .243. I've tagged a couple of dozen bang-flops with mine.
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Old August 29, 2018, 01:07 PM   #48
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Quote:
First, I would choose the RIFLE!!

Then, pick from available calibers. I would probably choose the ,308 win
Ditto.

Ps. Happy to see all the love for the 7mm08. I'd pick that one if it was on your list.
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Old August 29, 2018, 01:50 PM   #49
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You know, I don’t recall ever hearing about the 7mm-08 until about 15 years ago. What is another round that is comparable to the 7mm-08?
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Old August 29, 2018, 03:14 PM   #50
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The .260 Rem is a necked down version using the .308 Win case. Also ballistically the 7x57mm Mauser is close enough.

7mm/.284, to me, is just about ideal as it’s a common mid sized caliber with plenty of bullet weight and style offerings that happen to have high BC’s for their sectional density.

And I like the short action type cases as they are efficient and don’t require the longer action. Add to that the Ackley Improved and it produces roughly the ‘06 ballistics with slightly less powder and pressure. And the chamber will still cycle standard ammo blowing out the case to produce the AI. Of course if you aren’t a handloader or don’t know of one who will load this is obsolete.
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