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Old October 13, 2018, 07:35 PM   #26
MoArk Willy
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I like my bodyguard .380, I carry it many ways depending on weather IE: how I am dressed.
I like the belly band most of the time since I work in overalls most often on jobs and around the shop. I link the ankle carry for dress when I wear long pants. In the summer it's usually in a fanny pack.
But if I was to purchase another .380 it would be the Sig. Not cheap but very nice guns, easy to rack and what a .380 should be. I do have a Bersa Thunder though also in .380 but it's a little too large for pocket carry. It's nice on the belt.
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Old October 13, 2018, 07:45 PM   #27
MisterCrabby
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I carry the Two. Better trigger. Slide Lock. Use defensive ammo like critical defense and you have a convincing and effective deterrent.

You have to practice with the two finger grip. If you pocket carry, which I do, the sleeve it comes with is usable. But requires wearing in and practice.

Very convenient and comfortable. Simple and reliable.
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Old October 14, 2018, 05:35 AM   #28
CDW4ME
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
My personal preference too. However I was rather surprised by the quantifiable data.
In that data 32 acp has better actual incapacitated by one shot % than 9mm, 40, 45. Yea, right.
Common sense that a bigger hole more likely to generate desired result quicker than smaller hole in the same place.
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Its lackadaisical to settle for "better than nothing" when something better could be carried.
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"Wouldn't want to or Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.
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Old October 14, 2018, 08:05 AM   #29
unclejack37
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I believe everyone should carry whatever they feel good about. I've found for me the smaller sized pocket guns are a bit snappy for their calibre but most times they're exactly what's needed for the situation. My normal EDC is a Beretta Nano, 9mm. When I'm on my MC I carry a Beretta 950 jetfire 25 auto that fits my pocket perfectly. It's what works at the time.
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Old October 14, 2018, 11:10 AM   #30
davidsog
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In that data 32 acp has better actual incapacitated by one shot % than 9mm, 40, 45. Yea, right.
I would say read the article. Otherwise we are just going to keep reposting the same information, lol.
Incapacitated does not mean dead or even incapable of continued violence. It just means the attacker stopped the attack.

Most people do not like any bullet hole in their body.

That an attacker looked at the new hole in their skin, got mad about it, and continued their attack at double the rate of larger caliber rounds speaks volumes about the value of making a larger hole in the first place.

Last edited by davidsog; October 14, 2018 at 11:17 AM.
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Old October 14, 2018, 12:21 PM   #31
CDW4ME
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I would say read the article. Otherwise we are just going to keep reposting the same information, lol.
Incapacitated does not mean dead or even incapable of continued violence. It just means the attacker stopped the attack.
According to that data 32 acp > all other pistol calibers. LOL
Data says I'm doing it wrong carrying a Glock 21, better protected with Kel-Tec 32

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Its lackadaisical to settle for "better than nothing" when something better could be carried.
A lethal threat merits the same ASAP stopping potential regardless of location, light.
"Wouldn't want to or Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.
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Old October 14, 2018, 12:23 PM   #32
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According to that data 32 acp > all other pistol calibers.
Consider the source.....
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Old October 14, 2018, 12:51 PM   #33
Bill DeShivs
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Hole size means very little in the real world.
Outside of psychological stops, the only sure stop is a central nervous system shot. It really doesn't matter if the CNS shot is a .22 or a .45.
I know this is over most people's heads.

Bigger is better-but not very much better. ANY gun is better than no gun.
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Old October 14, 2018, 01:49 PM   #34
K_Mac
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Based on the one shot chart you could draw the conclusion that it suggests .32 is the preferred caliber. That is not the conclusion of the study:

Quote:
Some people will look at this data and say "He's telling us all to carry .22s". That's not true. Although this study showed that the percentages of people stopped with one shot are similar between almost all handgun cartridges, there's more to the story. Take a look at two numbers: the percentage of people who did not stop (no matter how many rounds were fired into them) and the one-shot-stop percentage. The lower caliber rounds (.22, .25, .32) had a failure rate that was roughly double that of the higher caliber rounds. The one-shot-stop percentage (where I considered all hits, anywhere on the body) trended generally higher as the round gets more powerful.
I do agree that having a gun is priority one and that there is little difference in service calbers. 380 is the smallest round I carry, but if I had a 6 shot revolver in. 327 mag I would sometimes carry it. 9 mm is my preferred EDC based on my experience and research. Knowing ones abilities and limitations with training and practice to minimize those limitations is the key.
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Old October 14, 2018, 04:02 PM   #35
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the Greg Ellifritz study has been discussed in detail before in other threads. His statistics may be interesting reading, but that's about it.
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Old October 14, 2018, 05:32 PM   #36
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Quote:
Quote:
Accuracy doesn't explain it
Accuracy is a base fundamental with every lethality study I have seen concluding the same thing. At close ranges, shot placement is much more important than caliber.
davidsog ---

You seem to like quoting snippets out-of-context. I referred to the high level of one-shot incapacitation rate for .22 caliber pistols (60%) but only 76% accuracy (torso or head shot). Larger calibers had a similar or higher accuracy rate but lower one shot incapacitation rate. For example, the .45 acp had an 85% accuracy rate but only a one-shot incapacitation rate of 51%. That indicates either one of three things to me. First, the data could be all screwed up. Second, describing accuracy as a hit to the torso or head is too broad to be useful. Assuming neither of these to be the case, then some other factor is at play and I hypothesized what one of those factors might be.

Now, explain to me how a smaller, less powerful caliber that is shot less accurately creates a higher one-shot incapacitation rate than a larger, more powerful caliber that is shot more accurately. One has to look at this sort of "study" with a critical eye.

Last edited by KyJim; October 14, 2018 at 05:38 PM.
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Old October 14, 2018, 07:00 PM   #37
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Quote:
You seem to like quoting snippets out-of-context.
I think his whole understanding of terminal ballistics is “out of context”.
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Old October 14, 2018, 07:48 PM   #38
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Now, explain to me how a smaller, less powerful caliber that is shot less accurately creates a higher one-shot incapacitation rate than a larger, more powerful caliber that is shot more accurately. One has to look at this sort of "study" with a critical eye.
It's been a while, but I did sit through the whole video. I believe that the statistics were based on actual cases, but the levels were based off the amount of cases per caliber. So since less cases involved .32 acp, but resulted in a higher rate for say 40 cases versus the 9mm which being a common caliber had many more case studies to affect the percentage. If that makes any sense to you.
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Old Yesterday, 02:28 AM   #39
Ibmikey
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I have 25-30 pistols in .380 caliber and normally carry a Sig 238 or Kimber micro 380. Before retirement carried a .380 as a back up to service pistol, I have utmost confidence in my pistols and if fired placement of shot is paramount.
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Old Yesterday, 06:10 PM   #40
KyJim
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It's been a while, but I did sit through the whole video. I believe that the statistics were based on actual cases, but the levels were based off the amount of cases per caliber. So since less cases involved .32 acp, but resulted in a higher rate for say 40 cases versus the 9mm which being a common caliber had many more case studies to affect the percentage. If that makes any sense to you
If that's the explanation, that means the data is invalid; i.e., the sample is too small, in at least some calibers, to be meaningful. I don't have the background in statistics to go any further than that dubious observation.
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Old Yesterday, 08:01 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by KyJim
If that's the explanation, that means the data is invalid; i.e., the sample is too small, in at least some calibers, to be meaningful. I don't have the background in statistics to go any further than that dubious observation.
Data is data; the validity of inferences drawn from analyzing data depends on sample or population size.
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