Shooting animals for the sake of shooting them?

[MeekAndMild]

I don't know about the rest of the world but last month dogs/coyotes/foxes carried off a dozen of Mrs. Meek's chickens and three of her guineas. I have a blood feud with the wild Canis tribe but that doesn't mean I have any criticism against trophy hunters who kill them without other reason except that they need killing.

Right and wrong are purely human inventions; in the great wheel of existence each creature lives out its life in accordance with its own karmic destiny. While the man who finds pleasure in killing these animals might suffer for it in the next life I suspect that his fellow who lets one live out of misplaced kindness will suffer an equally bad fate (perhaps watching his own child die of rabies?) Likewise the man who hates his fellow man for reasons mentioned by previous posters is no better and indeed may be worse than the one one he hates.

[homefires]

I Don't shoot just to shoot them and kill. I shoot to eat, I shoot to protect and I shoot to Defend mine and my own.

One day I came home at about 6:00 AM and found about 30-40 of my 70-80 chickens in a blood bath! The front of my 5 acres looked like a seen from WWII!

I was keeping some 80 chickens free range during the day and cooped at night! I had problems with coyotes once in a while,, They take one or two and carry there dinner away. Wild dogs just kill to have fun and do the game. That day, I visited all of my nabors and told them keep your dogs home. I lost a pile of chickens and will correct it tonight. Of course they all said My Dog would not have done that!!!!!! Hoisted the latter, got on the roof 10/22 and sleeping bag in hand and slept there over the night. At about sun up here comes a dog. Two dogs, five dogs, 7 dogs, 12 dogs..........

I was amazed. Where to hell did they come from? After a few minutes when there number had raised, they started tearing up the coop!

I killed 9 dogs that morning! Did I like it, NO! Did it stop the problems, YES! Was the nabors pissed at me, YES!

[fivepaknh]

Steel,
If you don’t like coyote hunters that do it for the sport, then you must have a real problem with crow and prairie dog hunters.

I live in NH and I can tell you right now that hunting coyote is not like shooting fish in a barrel. They’re very smart animals and can be difficult to hunt in the northeast. I hunt them for sport and don’t feel I need to justify it. The state says I can, so I do. That’s good enough for me.

[SteelJM1]

NO, no problems with sport hunting. As i said before I was misguided in knowledge of these animals. I have plenty of humble pie still left to eat, thanks

[The Tourist]

I have no problem with varmint shooting, as implemented as the name implies.

That being the removal of pests.

There are plenty of places in both North and South Dakota where ranchers want prairie dogs controlled.

And before you rant and rave about "big money" or "big cattle," you should also know that many of these areas are also envirinmentally sensitive to the plight of the black-footed ferret.

During the early 1990's, they even published the telephone numbers of ranchers who wanted eastern varmint shooters.

I believe this a very important and distinct difference in the 1880's sport of slaughtering hundreds of buffalo from the back of a train for target practice.

[RockyMtnTactical]

Didn't Jeffery Dahmer start off that way?

According to profilers, 3 defining characteristics of a serial killer are that they exhibit 1) cruelty to animals 2) have a fascination with starting fires and 3) they wet the bed (60% of serial killers wet the bed past the age of 12).

Killing varmints, rodents, and other pests is not what I would consider "cruelty". Now, if you are torturing them before you kill them... well...

[MD_Willington]

We have livestock around here, the coyotes, if left to do as they please, will take the livestock... We do not appreciate the coyote taking the livestock

[MeekAndMild]

homefires, sometimes I wonder at the irresponsibility of people who allow dogs to run free in the country. I also wonder if your local county ordinances might allow you to sue your neighbors for dog-related damages. I'm not a lawyer and not recommending frivolous lawsuits but allowing a dog to roam free where there are people who keep livestock sounds pretty negligent to me.

In my opinion once a dog gets into the frenzy of livestock killing there is only a small step from killing chickens and cats to killing small children. So my personal response is to remove the threat. But thats just me.

Also, no criticism if the .22 works for you, but I think that a shotgun works better.

[Mannlicher]

SteelJM1

Just reading through a thread in another part of the forum made me wonder: Are people really afraid of coyotes, or are they just looking for quick justification to have something alive to shoot at? Certain things that were said really touched a nerve in me, and it made me realize that it's no wonder that a lot of non-gun people think we're all a bunch of rednecks he-hawing at the thought of blasting away a creature just because we can.

I kill coy dogs because they are hurting the deer population on the farms I hunt. Coyotes are a huge problem around her, killing not only deer, but game birds, rabbits and squirrels.

Besides, its fun to watch them jump high in the air when I hit one with the .243

[Double J]

We used to have quail and lots of rabbits. Now we got coyotes and house cats. I'd rather hunt the rabbit because they taste better, but ...what the heck.

[ronc0011]

You know when I was a kid and I got my first BB gun and then later a 22 I used to kill things just to kill things. I am old enough now to understand the behavior. As a kid we try to imitate our parents but we don’t have all the understanding of a full adult person. We imitate the actions without being aware of the decision making process. As I grew older I didn’t really need anyone to tell me what it meant to kill something, I had done it often enough by then to understand it pretty well and to understand that it was something I didn’t really enjoy or feel good about. To make a dead thing from a live thing without some over riding reason is something I would prefer not to do.

That being said I think that there are not that many people, percentage wise, who fail to make this transition with the onset of adulthood. I know there are some, we see them on the news pretty regularly but they are by no means the norm. And I expect there are those who manage enough self control not to end up on the news but who are still able to feed their appetites by killing animals. In any event, as it pertains to problem animals I don’t think it maters who kills the animal as long as it gets done. It is a separate issue from what is going on inside the head of the shooter. That is an issue that society will have to address when it manifest its self in less acceptable ways. On occasions I have met people whom I instinctively had a bad reaction to and departed their company as soon as I was able. I can’t say why, only that there was something that set the alarms off in my head but I know that there are some people who really enjoy killing solely for the sake of killing, in other words it’s the act of killing that they derive pleasure from. These people I truly believe that there is something badly wrong with them. However I still think that they are anomalies and that they are by no means the norm.

So I think on a statistical level you could safely say that 0% of the shooters are wack jobs while on the individual level there are of course some wack jobs and of course there are the adolescents who just haven’t completed the transition into adulthood.

[hogdogs]

I will finish reading the 3 pages of this thread after i post...
I know of many "varmint" hunters and have never met a single hunter in my 39 years that hunts "for the sake of killing". Some hunt for the pelt sales, others hunt to reduce the population of predators but most hunt for the sake of the HUNT. To go up against a quarry that is hard to hunt. calling in a 'yote from over a mile away to within gun range without him busting you is the challenge for many. It ain't hard to see that 'yotes are destructive. They eliminate livestock as well as the wildlife already mentioned. Also, to the question "Why do they not have any natural predators?" it doesn't really matter since any predator of the 'yote is also preying on the livestock and wildlife already mentioned as being threatened by 'yotes. What about the non predatory varmints? They too are hunted mainly for the challenge. either the distance at which you must hunt from or the creatures elusive tendency makes them hard to hunt. For some creatures it is the fact that they are not a local native that makes them a target. For me, it is the ferral domestic cats. I hunt them because they are not native predators. Not many consider them prey so they leave them alone even though they are eliminating turkeys, doves and quail. They also hunt down squirrels and other animals considered game. But worse they are taking food from native predators like bobcats, 'yotes, cougar, hawks and falcons. Unless my client descibes a certain cat wearing a certain collar all are fair game. I want a yote pelt nailed to my shed wall. I would like a bobcat pelt but they do not do the damage in their low local population to warrant me targeting them. I never kill an animal to see it die. I hunt to be challenged for the shot or for food. I will shoot ringneck doves (also an invasive specie with no season in florida) to feed to my son's snake. Everything else I shoot through the year will be fed to me and my family or to the 9-10 hog hunting dogs on the yard. Less dog food to buy is a good thing and fresh raw meat is much healthier...
Brent

[K8vf]

I know this is an OLd thread, but I live in Northern Lower Mich, very rural.

Sheep ranching nearby, and cows, too.

Coyotes will gut doe whitetails when laden with young, they love sheep, and a yard gog or cat is a nice snack.

They have no enemies here, although(despite DNR assertions) we do have cougars, and MATING POPULATIONS, too.

SO Hunting coyotes here is appreciated and wanted.

Hunt some coyotes for the sheep rancher and you can hunt his 100 acres for deer and small game, too.

Works for me.

[comn-cents]

I live in a city of close to 80,000 people and I live not more than 2 miles from Main Street. I had two come into my back yard and try to pull my cat in two. I will shoot them just to kill them. We called the police and we were told "that we moved into their neighborhood, and that we should learn to live with them just like we live with birds & bunnies". The dispatcher’s words. My house was built in 1978 not a week ago. Now I’m scared to death of bunnies & birds with k9’s.


I’m not an ignorant redneck either.

[plainsman456]

I have lived here for 30+ years and can tell you they will eat a calf crop upand they really like chickens,small dogs and cats.
They will always be hunted here cuz they ate all the wifes's chickens.

[hamr56]

As a kid I watched them rip the throats out of baby lambs we had on the ranch. They are not something that needs protected, actually there are so darn many you can see them next to the interstate as you drive. The best part of this post is the amount of education that has been put before you, now go forward more educated.

[knoxville]

it's not the fact that people are afraid of coyotes as much as it is that they are a pest and threaten some peoples means of making a living and feeding there families they also prey on game that make our states revenue such as game birds elk deer etc. and some just like to keep there hunting skills in tune during the off season and were i'm from hunting coyotes has been our way of life since i can remember i guess the people that live in the city only have to worry about who's dog is messing in there front yard every morning probably wouldn't understand all of this

[bullspotter]

Wow interesting read, I would tend to say in MT their are lots of people who shoot praire dogs just for fun, (not really hunting, dont eat them, dont even hunt them, drive on out to a town, set up a bench and start shooting) Ill admit ive had a chuckle or 2 or 5 when i flip one out of its hole about 4 feet straight up with my 223. I guess it is some control of a pest, but is it really when the dog town is a 2 SQ miles and i only have 200 rounds to shoot up?

It would truely pest controll when the land owner would poisen them and their would be tens of thousands killed in a few days. Theirs also several areas that have fun shoots for yotes and prairie dogs, points for most kills, longest shots ext, this is not hunting, might be pest controll, but its mostly for fun, get some shooting time in and hang out with your freinds on a weekend. But in the end its still killing, and really for nothing but fun. Once again some pest controll, but mostly for fun.

I guess this will make me one of the guys who kills for fun sometimes. Im sory to offend some of you...I also deer and elk hunt for fun and enjoyment, I do it because I love the out doors, being with freinds and family on trips, all the fun times from the past and the storys we will get to tell in the next few years about that one thing that happend we will all remember, or get to laugh about someday. I also like to have a full freezer at the end of season, so for deer and elk, i do hunt for food as well haveing fun.

[Double Naught Spy]

The breed like rats

No, they do not. Coyotes typically only breed once a year, producing only one litter per year. While they reach sexual maturity at 1 year, most females do not breed until they are two years of age. Litter size ranges from 1-19 depending on resources and pressures. Pre-adult mortality is 40-60%.

Rats? Rats breed multiple times per year and depending on the species, may produce litters every 30-40 days and be sexually mature and start breeding within a couple of months of being born. Litter sizes range from 2-10 with up to 9 litters per year (depending on species, environment, etc.).

So no, coyotes most definitely do not breed like rats.

[Regolith]

So he stands there, and looks at you, because you are not dangerous to him. If you started hunting them, you would find out pretty quick that once they realize you are dangerous to them (and it won't take long), that they won't just stand there so they can be shot "like fish in a barrel".

I actually had one sit there and look at me while I was hunting deer in Northern Nevada. He definitely didn't just sit around to be shot, though; soon as I raised my gun to take him he took off running. Didn't get a shot on him after that; a coyote running through waist high sagebrush is not easy to hit (or see, for that matter). They are not stupid. They know when they're being threatened, and they act appropriately.

Actually, I've never been able to shoot one, partially for that reason. And partially because I don't go out of my way to hunt them.

[45Gunner]

Years ago, shortly after I returned from Vietnam, I had gone with a friend and fellow worker out to a remote spot in the Everglades to do some target shooting. As we walked down a trail, he raised his rifle and shot a bird out of the sky without any warning. He was proud of his shot. I was stunned. I asked if he was going to recover the bird to bring it back home to eat. He said no, it was just a target.

That was the last time I did anything with that guy. After seeing lives wasted for I still don't know why, I swore I would never be part of taking a life, human or otherwise unless it was self preservation. Taking an animal life for food, in my opinion, is justifiable...it's a matter of rank on the food chain. But, to take a life simply for sport is not my idea of fun. Taking an animal life if it is threatening life higher up the food chain is also acceptable as long as it is done in defense or preventing the destruction of cattle or domestic animals.

But to simply use an animal, a defenseless animal, for target practice is vile and a waste and is akin to what these worthless gangbangers are doing to themselves during their turf wars. The sad part is innocent civilians get hurt or killed. I would have less compunction killing one of those scum in self defense that I would shooting at a non aggressive animal minding its own business. In this instance, the animal would be the higher of the two on the food chain.

[riggins_83]

If the animal:

Is causing damage to my home or land (woodchucks, wood peckers) actively... not because they're an animal that has potential to.

If the animal carries a high level of disease (such as prairie dogs).

If the animal sees me as lunch

If I see the animal as lunch

Then it's fair game.. otherwise I won't shoot it.

[Carryabigstick]

I have never shot a coyote but I would if I felt like it. I do not think there is anything wrong with shooting animals just for the sake of sport. Most people only hunt for the sake of sport. I know you can eat the animals but they only kill it themselves for the fun of killing. I am fine with this. As long as we are being good stewards then we are fine. I have friends that shoot ground squirrels by the dozens and it is just for fun. We do not have to eat animals but we do because it gives us enjoyment (meat tastes great). The same is with hunting, we do it cause it is fun. BTW killing an abundance of God's creatures untill they are going extinct is wrong.

[geetarman]

Well. I am going to sound off.

I used to hunt and hunt a lot. I had no problems killing groundhogs and other pests and had a good time doing it.

I have to say things have changed as I have gotten older.

I have not hunted for a number of years and I was over at Bass Pro watching a video that someone had put together of coyote hunting.

I don't know why, but the video really bothered me.

I can understand killing pests around the home place and am not opposed to hunting or fishing.

It is just one of those things that does nothing for me anymore.

I love the outdoors and punching paper, but taking game is not part of the plan anymore.

Try not to be too harsh. . .ok?

[Bud Helms]

Well, hunting game or shooting "pests" as a control measure, either is justified if you engage ethically.

But having fun hunting or shooting for pest control aren't the same thing as shooting an animal for fun.

I also don't consider pest control as Shooting animals for the sake of shooting them.