Bersa Thunder .380 [firestorm, for california] hitting low?

jmstr · September 27, 2016, 04:02 PM

Hello everyone,

I finally got a chance to take my new Bersa Thunder .380 out to the range. I put the first 50 rounds through it [Geco .380 acp ammo, 95 grain, about 980fps].

Recoil was what I expected-tolerable but not as nice as my 9mm. To be expected though.
Precision was what I had hoped for: I did my part and the bullets grouped decently [for me].
HOWEVER, the Point of Impact was off.
I believe I was doing a 'cover' hold [center dot covering target], but I could have had the center of the bullseye resting on the top of the front sight [as opposed to a 'bullseye hold', where the bottom of the center bullseye circle is resting on the top of the front sight].
I was shooting 2-handed at an indoor range, at a distance of 7 yards.
I was getting POI at about 4-5" below where I expected it to be.

It made me wonder what distance the Bersa Thunder/Firestorm .380 was sited in for?

If I did a modified hold [not 'cover', but not 'bulleye'- with top of front site bisecting center of bullseye] and the gun was set up for a 'cover' hold, then I was hitting about 2-4" below where I think it ought to.
IF the gun was set up for a distance of 25 yards [or meters], then maybe the bullet is still rising? But WHY would a .380acp ever be sighted in at more than 15 yards?

Does this POI change with breaking in?

FYI, I am aware of 'breaking' habits- be it left/right/down/up as we anticipate or flinch or squeeze unevenly.

I am a bit experienced, and know that my error tends to be low/left, by about 1", with my other guns- if I am not really concentrating.

I was concentrating the entire time.
Thus, the 4-5" low could be 3-4" low if you take my most common mistake out, yet the impacts were directly below where I was aiming, so my low/left pattern was broken.
This is why I don't think this was the real issue- but I acknowledge it could have been.
I had 2 7-Round Bersa mags [with pinky rest], 2 8-Round MecGar Mags [with pinky rest] and 2 9-round Bersa mags [with whatever that adaptor is called].
IF the mags contributed, I believe it was the 4 with pinky rests.
The last 2 mags through the gun used the 9rounders, and the POI seemed to be about 1" higher- but not as tightly grouped.
I wasn't sure if I was becoming tired, or my focus was shifting, or there was something else going on.

Thanks in advance for any insights you can give. I know I need to put another 250 rounds through it before it is broken in, and I am learning the gun. I just ran out of ammo and time today.

It might be months before I get back there, but I can do research to identify possible causes before then. Thank you all again.

carguychris · September 27, 2016, 09:56 PM

Have you let someone else shoot it? IMHO this is always the first thing to try whenever the POI of a new-to-you gun seems to be drastically off.

Sometimes a new gun just takes some time for you to get used to it.

I would not expect break-in to cause the POI to shift 3"-4" @ 7yds, because it's a blowback pistol with the barrel rigidly fixed to the frame. Barrel-to-slide lockup is not a factor.

Katsumi Liquer · September 28, 2016, 09:49 AM

My BT 380, when shooting factory ammo, requires the dot on the front sight to cover the bullseye. Likewise with the BT 380s owned by two of my friends.

Other BT 380 owners have also reported the same thing on BersaChat.com. The only conclusion is that the gun is zeroed that way at the factory.

Since I handload, I got round that "problem" by loading a slightly heavier projectile (100 gr. vs. 90-95 gr. for factory ammo) at a lower muzzle velocity to bring the POI up; the result is that my BT 380 shoots these handloads exactly to the POA. Being a blowback design, the gun is surprisingly accurate, even out to 25 yards.

michael t · September 29, 2016, 08:40 PM

You got to cover the bulls eye or will be low. Are you shooting 1st DA then all rest SA. Lot of people loose the 1st shot on DA .

My Thunder is 13 now and other one is 5 years. I never noticed them shooting low.

jmstr · October 1, 2016, 01:28 PM

Thanks all. I will give this advice a try next trip.

jmstr · October 4, 2016, 02:15 AM

I snuck away Monday.

You were right. I was pulling on the mag pinky lip, and I was not using a 'cover' target alignment, but a pumpkin/post alignment.

I went to cover and then worked on the pinky pressure.
Result: rounds landing where they should [minus my poor skills].

Thanks all.

September 27, 2016, 04:02 PM	#1
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	Bersa Thunder .380 [firestorm, for california] hitting low? Hello everyone, I finally got a chance to take my new Bersa Thunder .380 out to the range. I put the first 50 rounds through it [Geco .380 acp ammo, 95 grain, about 980fps]. Recoil was what I expected-tolerable but not as nice as my 9mm. To be expected though. Precision was what I had hoped for: I did my part and the bullets grouped decently [for me]. HOWEVER, the Point of Impact was off. I believe I was doing a 'cover' hold [center dot covering target], but I could have had the center of the bullseye resting on the top of the front sight [as opposed to a 'bullseye hold', where the bottom of the center bullseye circle is resting on the top of the front sight]. I was shooting 2-handed at an indoor range, at a distance of 7 yards. I was getting POI at about 4-5" below where I expected it to be. It made me wonder what distance the Bersa Thunder/Firestorm .380 was sited in for? If I did a modified hold [not 'cover', but not 'bulleye'- with top of front site bisecting center of bullseye] and the gun was set up for a 'cover' hold, then I was hitting about 2-4" below where I think it ought to. IF the gun was set up for a distance of 25 yards [or meters], then maybe the bullet is still rising? But WHY would a .380acp ever be sighted in at more than 15 yards? Does this POI change with breaking in? FYI, I am aware of 'breaking' habits- be it left/right/down/up as we anticipate or flinch or squeeze unevenly. I am a bit experienced, and know that my error tends to be low/left, by about 1", with my other guns- if I am not really concentrating. I was concentrating the entire time. Thus, the 4-5" low could be 3-4" low if you take my most common mistake out, yet the impacts were directly below where I was aiming, so my low/left pattern was broken. This is why I don't think this was the real issue- but I acknowledge it could have been. I had 2 7-Round Bersa mags [with pinky rest], 2 8-Round MecGar Mags [with pinky rest] and 2 9-round Bersa mags [with whatever that adaptor is called]. IF the mags contributed, I believe it was the 4 with pinky rests. The last 2 mags through the gun used the 9rounders, and the POI seemed to be about 1" higher- but not as tightly grouped. I wasn't sure if I was becoming tired, or my focus was shifting, or there was something else going on. Thanks in advance for any insights you can give. I know I need to put another 250 rounds through it before it is broken in, and I am learning the gun. I just ran out of ammo and time today. It might be months before I get back there, but I can do research to identify possible causes before then. Thank you all again.

September 27, 2016, 09:56 PM	#2
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	Have you let someone else shoot it? IMHO this is always the first thing to try whenever the POI of a new-to-you gun seems to be drastically off. Sometimes a new gun just takes some time for you to get used to it. I would not expect break-in to cause the POI to shift 3"-4" @ 7yds, because it's a blowback pistol with the barrel rigidly fixed to the frame. Barrel-to-slide lockup is not a factor. __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

September 29, 2016, 08:40 PM	#4
michael t Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: Out back Ky Posts: 4,044	You got to cover the bulls eye or will be low. Are you shooting 1st DA then all rest SA. Lot of people loose the 1st shot on DA . My Thunder is 13 now and other one is 5 years. I never noticed them shooting low. __________________ Certified Armed Infidel Colt Defender ,Colt Mustang ,Dan Wesson CBOB, PPK/S, American Classic 1911,Bersa Thunder 380 http://bersachat.comHome of Bersa http://www.metroarms1911forum.com

September 28, 2016, 09:49 AM	#3
Katsumi Liquer Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2002 Posts: 112	My BT 380, when shooting factory ammo, requires the dot on the front sight to cover the bullseye. Likewise with the BT 380s owned by two of my friends. Other BT 380 owners have also reported the same thing on BersaChat.com. The only conclusion is that the gun is zeroed that way at the factory. Since I handload, I got round that "problem" by loading a slightly heavier projectile (100 gr. vs. 90-95 gr. for factory ammo) at a lower muzzle velocity to bring the POI up; the result is that my BT 380 shoots these handloads exactly to the POA. Being a blowback design, the gun is surprisingly accurate, even out to 25 yards.

October 1, 2016, 01:28 PM	#5
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	Thanks all. I will give this advice a try next trip.

October 4, 2016, 02:15 AM	#6
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	I snuck away Monday. You were right. I was pulling on the mag pinky lip, and I was not using a 'cover' target alignment, but a pumpkin/post alignment. I went to cover and then worked on the pinky pressure. Result: rounds landing where they should [minus my poor skills]. Thanks all.