Mid-caliber rifle that's not in an AR platform

SerenityNetworks · April 25, 2018, 04:03 PM

Does anyone make a high quality 6.5mm or similar mid-caliber semi-automatic that's not in an AR-style platform?

I love the accuracy of a bolt action and I have some from .204 Ruger to 30.06. But I'd also like to have a mid-caliber (.243, 6.5mm, etc.) semi-automatic with a superior trigger and inherent accuracy - that's not in an AR-style platform. If it could perform as well, or nearly as well, as my CZ with a set trigger than that would be cool. But I really don't know what's available. Most searches I perform just pull up AR-style rifles. I'm not opposed to ARs in any way, it's just not what I'm looking for right now. My dad had an old Remington Woodsmaster in .243. I liked that rifle. I'm looking for something similar, but with preferably a better trigger and accuracy. I'll hunt yotes, hogs, and deer with it and all within 250 yards for the most part, but I'd also like to be able to paper punch at longer ranges.

I'm intrigued by the 6.5mm offerings, but I don't know if their potential accuracy would be wasted in a semi-automatic or not. I'm looking for input. I rarely have the chance to reload and I can't say that my reloads are better performing than a high quality factory load, so if a 6.5mm is an option then perhaps the Creedmore would be a better choice than a Swede just because of the availability of high quality factory loads.

Anyway, at this point I'm rambling. The short story is that I have no idea what's available. I'd appreciate any suggestions that could get me going.

Thanks in advance,
Andrew

MagnumWill · April 25, 2018, 04:14 PM

Springfield just came out with a 6.5 Creedmoor M1A, if that strikes your fancy (and wallet)...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gun...field-m1a/amp/

Sturmpanzer · April 25, 2018, 04:42 PM

Ruger just came out with a 7.62x39 version of their Ranch bolt action...can use the internal mag or a mini-30 20 rdr in it... Nice gun...

SerenityNetworks · April 25, 2018, 05:02 PM

Thanks. I hadn't see either of these offerings. The Ruger is more in line with what I'm desiring aesthetically. The M1A is sweet, but I'm more in mind of having a traditional wood stock if such an animal exists in an accurate rifle.

Duke of Lawn Chair · April 25, 2018, 06:12 PM

Why are you opposed to the AR platform?

Sharkbite · April 25, 2018, 06:22 PM

Ruger mini-30 in either 7.62x39 or 300blackout might meet your needs

ed308 · April 25, 2018, 06:24 PM

One of the few semi auto in a mid calibers rifle would be Ruger's Mini 30 in 7.62x39. They made a 6.8 SPC a while back but discontinued it. I don't recall ever seeing a mid caliber semi auto in 6.5 except those in an AR. Those would be more accurate than a Ruger Mini 14 or 30. If 6.5 is what your looking for, then build a 6.5 Grendel AR with wood stocks. You can get the stocks from Boyds. I built a 6.8 "Woodie" with their stocks. Not mine, but this is what they look like:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cfT6ZEpeakk/maxresdefault.jpg

Mobuck · April 25, 2018, 06:52 PM

HOWA in 6.5Grendel or 7.62x39

Duke of Lawn Chair · April 25, 2018, 07:07 PM

AK in 6.5 X 39 Grenelski

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...tified-russia/

SerenityNetworks · April 25, 2018, 09:12 PM

To answer a question and eliminate some of the suggestions, I don't disapprove of ARs, AKs, Mini-30s, etc., in any way shape or form. They are fantastic rifles. The accuracy is great and mighty fine triggers can be installed. I'd love to have a Mk3 DTR2 or similar at some point, but right now I'm just looking for a traditional styled rifle with as much modern refinement as I can get. I don't have a traditionally styled mid-caliber semi-automatic rifle. I'd like one.

Thanks,
Andrew

PS. The Howa is the style I'm looking for, but it's a bolt action. I'm looking for a semi-auto only.

PPS. I'm going to need to check the Boyd's stocks for ARs. I'm not sure if I like it and want one or "it's just plain wrong".

I'm tending to think the latter.

Duke of Lawn Chair · April 25, 2018, 09:55 PM

Could go this route. It's AR-10 but a woody.

SerenityNetworks · April 25, 2018, 10:15 PM

Yeah, I'm not sure about the woody ARs. I took a look at Boyd's. I could maybe see using the black/grey set, but that's about it. Well, unless one were to ceracote the AR to something wood-like. Uh, no, that still seems just plain wrong to me.

I'm starting to think that a Browning BAR is my only option. It comes in 25.06, .243, and .270, and my family has always been happy with a Browning. Actually, until my dad bought a Woodsmaster in the 1980s, we didn't have a rifle or a shotgun that wasn't a Browning. A Remington Woodsmaster 750 is another possibility, but between the two I'd rather have a BAR.

I was hoping someone could point me to a few excellent rifles that I didn't know about, (and I'm still hoping) but from what I can find the BAR still sets the bar on semi-automatic traditional styled hunting rifles.

stillquietvoice · April 26, 2018, 05:43 AM

Are u looking for current production rifles. There are a few win mod 100 rifles out there in 243 284 or 308 that could fit the bill.

cmdc · April 26, 2018, 08:03 AM

I have two BARs, specifically a lightweight stalker in .270 Win, and a left-hand wood-stock one in 7mm-08. Both are good shooters, although the 7mm-08 with its beautiful oil finished walnut stock is almost too pretty to hunt with.

The current Browning on-line catalogue does not list a rifle in .25-06.

SerenityNetworks · April 26, 2018, 08:23 AM

Thank you. I'll take a look at the Win Mod 100. I just don't have time right now. But to answer the question, no, I'm open to discontinued models.

As to the BAR in 25.06, take a look at the listing for the Mark II Safari. (http://www.browning.com/products/fir...ii-safari.html) In the Item Selector area, click on the More Options dropdown and you'll see that it can be had in eight different calibers 25.06 and up. If I were to go that route, I'm not sure if I'd go with the 25.06, the .243, or the .270. But that's another thread.

PlatinumCore16 · April 26, 2018, 04:08 PM

The BAR certainly comes to mind initially. If you could make do with a shorter cartridge, an SVT40 or an SKS might be "traditional styled" enough for you. You could always go with an M1 as well.

The M1 can certainly hack your accuracy requirement, as can the BAR. I remember someone on the forums had an SVT40 they enjoyed and could lend a hand as to what its practical accuracy was(honestly don't remember who, sorry). They do also sell M1As in wood furniture, but perhaps not in the 6.5? Could always swap the stock afterwards if you were so inclined.

Last thing I would recommend to you would be a VEPR. The super grade and regular sporter grade have some beautiful wood. The super grade has a full (tip to butt) stock, while the regular sporter has a 2 piece. Both walnut though. That would be the one I have and I can't speak to its accuracy quite yet, but internet reports and talk over at vepr.org would suggest 2MOA or better, ammunition withstanding. I personally got the 54R version, but they make a .308 and x39 version as well. They are no longer being imported, so expect north of $1k and you also have to use an AK style, rail mount; whatever your personal thoughts are on that. It's basically a sporter AK, but will built and comes stock with walnut.

Mobuck · April 26, 2018, 06:24 PM

"The Howa is the style I'm looking for, but it's a bolt action. I'm looking for a semi-auto only."

Not an AR but a semi-auto in a "mid-caliber". That leaves _______ HMM? Darned near nothing. Maybe one of the WW2 German 7.92x33 whatchamakallits.

jmr40 · April 26, 2018, 07:45 PM

I don't think you're going to find what you're looking for. The semi-auto sporter rifles designed for hunting are mostly lacking. Most are less than reliable and accurate as well as being too heavy and expensive. The BAR or Benelli semi-auto hunting rifles are probably the closest, but just too expensive and heavy for me.

The semi-autos based on military designs such as the AR, Garand, etc. are going to be your best bet if it has to be semi-auto. While never quite as accurate as a bolt gun in the same price range, the AR platform has proven to be pretty darn accurate and reliable. An AR15 in 6.5 Grendel would probably be the least expensive route. The AR10's in the longer 308 class cartridges are a lot more expensive and start getting excessively heavy.

Honestly, once you get into rifles with recoil above 223 levels the rate of aimed fire isn't that much greater than a bolt rifle. Sure, you can empty the magazine faster, but if you actually slow down enough to hit something the rate of fire is virtually the same. There is a reason that the light tactical type bolt guns are becoming more common. Ruger is making their American Predator rifle available with 3, 5, and 10 round AI style magazines now in several calibers for about 1/2 to 1/4 the price of semi-autos in the same calibers.

If you don't want an AR type rifle, and I understand that, a bolt rifle is going to be the best option I think

SerenityNetworks · April 26, 2018, 09:36 PM

jmr40, you may be right.

I have more bolt action rifles than anything else, as they are my by far my favorite platform, and although I like military type designs I really don't want another (unless I choose to spring for a really high performance model, which most likely will never happen). I was just looking for something in a form different from everything else in my safe. Like you say, the effective rate of fire isn't going to be much higher than a bolt action once the cartridge gets much beyond a .223. With its heft, a BAR might handle a .243 (which is a round I personally like) pretty well. But I'm not sure. I'd want to try before I buy and that's likely not going to happen either.

Oh well, it was worth asking around. I appreciate all the input.

Thanks again,
Andrew

Bmp4510 · April 27, 2018, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenityNetworks

jmr40, you may be right.

I have more bolt action rifles than anything else, as they are my by far my favorite platform, and although I like military type designs I really don't want another (unless I choose to spring for a really high performance model, which most likely will never happen). I was just looking for something in a form different from everything else in my safe. Like you say, the effective rate of fire isn't going to be much higher than a bolt action once the cartridge gets much beyond a .223. With its heft, a BAR might handle a .243 (which is a round I personally like) pretty well. But I'm not sure. I'd want to try before I buy and that's likely not going to happen either.

Oh well, it was worth asking around. I appreciate all the input.

Thanks again,

Andrew

Accuracy Systems is a company you might consider. They convert Mini 14/30’s to different calibers. I have a early Mini 30 and have been disappointed in the 7.62 x 39 cartridge. I’ve wanted for years to reduce the bullet diameter to increase the selection of bullets and in increase the BC. I have an AA over watch in 6.5 Grendel on one of my AR’s and like the caliber so that’s what I am thinking to convert my 30 to. I haven’t used them yet, but you might look them up.

http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/index.php

Good Luck.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

fourbore · April 27, 2018, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stillquietvoice

Are u looking for current production rifles. There are a few win mod 100 rifles out there in 243 284 or 308 that could fit the bill.

Right, Winchester, Remington and Browning in many good hunting rounds.

Today, these dont seem in much demand with the baggy pants crowd. Too much wood, I guess.

Chainsaw. · April 27, 2018, 04:23 PM

Are you opposed to mil-surps? Quite a few from all around the world that fit your criteria.

SerenityNetworks · April 27, 2018, 09:28 PM

Thanks. No, I'm not opposed to Mil-Surps. But I don't know that the accuracy would be what I would like. If I'm mistaken, please point me in the right direction.

Thanks for the link to Accuracy Systems. I perused the site a little. I like what they have done with some of the Mini and Remingtons. It's something to think about. Then again, I wonder would they be any more accurate than a BAR out of the box.

2damnold4this · April 28, 2018, 06:57 AM

How about an ag42 in 6.5 Swede?

link

April 25, 2018, 04:03 PM	#1
SerenityNetworks Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2012 Location: Allen, TX Posts: 416	Mid-caliber rifle that's not in an AR platform Does anyone make a high quality 6.5mm or similar mid-caliber semi-automatic that's not in an AR-style platform? I love the accuracy of a bolt action and I have some from .204 Ruger to 30.06. But I'd also like to have a mid-caliber (.243, 6.5mm, etc.) semi-automatic with a superior trigger and inherent accuracy - that's not in an AR-style platform. If it could perform as well, or nearly as well, as my CZ with a set trigger than that would be cool. But I really don't know what's available. Most searches I perform just pull up AR-style rifles. I'm not opposed to ARs in any way, it's just not what I'm looking for right now. My dad had an old Remington Woodsmaster in .243. I liked that rifle. I'm looking for something similar, but with preferably a better trigger and accuracy. I'll hunt yotes, hogs, and deer with it and all within 250 yards for the most part, but I'd also like to be able to paper punch at longer ranges. I'm intrigued by the 6.5mm offerings, but I don't know if their potential accuracy would be wasted in a semi-automatic or not. I'm looking for input. I rarely have the chance to reload and I can't say that my reloads are better performing than a high quality factory load, so if a 6.5mm is an option then perhaps the Creedmore would be a better choice than a Swede just because of the availability of high quality factory loads. Anyway, at this point I'm rambling. The short story is that I have no idea what's available. I'd appreciate any suggestions that could get me going. Thanks in advance, Andrew __________________ NRA Life Member There are some ideas so preposterous that only an intellectual will believe them. - Malcolm Muggeridge

April 25, 2018, 04:14 PM	#2
MagnumWill Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Central Colorado Posts: 1,001	Springfield just came out with a 6.5 Creedmoor M1A, if that strikes your fancy (and wallet)... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gun...field-m1a/amp/ __________________ Those who hammer their swords into plow shares will plow for those who didn't...

April 25, 2018, 05:02 PM	#4
SerenityNetworks Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2012 Location: Allen, TX Posts: 416	Thanks. I hadn't see either of these offerings. The Ruger is more in line with what I'm desiring aesthetically. The M1A is sweet, but I'm more in mind of having a traditional wood stock if such an animal exists in an accurate rifle. __________________ NRA Life Member There are some ideas so preposterous that only an intellectual will believe them. - Malcolm Muggeridge

April 25, 2018, 06:24 PM	#7
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	One of the few semi auto in a mid calibers rifle would be Ruger's Mini 30 in 7.62x39. They made a 6.8 SPC a while back but discontinued it. I don't recall ever seeing a mid caliber semi auto in 6.5 except those in an AR. Those would be more accurate than a Ruger Mini 14 or 30. If 6.5 is what your looking for, then build a 6.5 Grendel AR with wood stocks. You can get the stocks from Boyds. I built a 6.8 "Woodie" with their stocks. Not mine, but this is what they look like: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cfT6ZEpeakk/maxresdefault.jpg Last edited by ed308; April 25, 2018 at 06:35 PM.

April 25, 2018, 09:12 PM	#10
SerenityNetworks Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2012 Location: Allen, TX Posts: 416	To answer a question and eliminate some of the suggestions, I don't disapprove of ARs, AKs, Mini-30s, etc., in any way shape or form. They are fantastic rifles. The accuracy is great and mighty fine triggers can be installed. I'd love to have a Mk3 DTR2 or similar at some point, but right now I'm just looking for a traditional styled rifle with as much modern refinement as I can get. I don't have a traditionally styled mid-caliber semi-automatic rifle. I'd like one. Thanks, Andrew PS. The Howa is the style I'm looking for, but it's a bolt action. I'm looking for a semi-auto only. PPS. I'm going to need to check the Boyd's stocks for ARs. I'm not sure if I like it and want one or "it's just plain wrong". I'm tending to think the latter. __________________ NRA Life Member There are some ideas so preposterous that only an intellectual will believe them. - Malcolm Muggeridge

April 25, 2018, 04:42 PM	#3
Sturmpanzer Junior member Join Date: November 11, 2017 Posts: 116	Ruger just came out with a 7.62x39 version of their Ranch bolt action...can use the internal mag or a mini-30 20 rdr in it... Nice gun...

April 25, 2018, 06:12 PM	#5
Duke of Lawn Chair Member Join Date: January 10, 2018 Posts: 25	Why are you opposed to the AR platform?

April 25, 2018, 06:22 PM	#6
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	Ruger mini-30 in either 7.62x39 or 300blackout might meet your needs

April 25, 2018, 06:52 PM	#8
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	HOWA in 6.5Grendel or 7.62x39

April 25, 2018, 07:07 PM	#9
Duke of Lawn Chair Member Join Date: January 10, 2018 Posts: 25	AK in 6.5 X 39 Grenelski http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...tified-russia/

April 25, 2018, 09:55 PM	#11
Duke of Lawn Chair Member Join Date: January 10, 2018 Posts: 25	Could go this route. It's AR-10 but a woody.

April 25, 2018, 10:15 PM	#12
SerenityNetworks Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2012 Location: Allen, TX Posts: 416	Yeah, I'm not sure about the woody ARs. I took a look at Boyd's. I could maybe see using the black/grey set, but that's about it. Well, unless one were to ceracote the AR to something wood-like. Uh, no, that still seems just plain wrong to me. I'm starting to think that a Browning BAR is my only option. It comes in 25.06, .243, and .270, and my family has always been happy with a Browning. Actually, until my dad bought a Woodsmaster in the 1980s, we didn't have a rifle or a shotgun that wasn't a Browning. A Remington Woodsmaster 750 is another possibility, but between the two I'd rather have a BAR. I was hoping someone could point me to a few excellent rifles that I didn't know about, (and I'm still hoping) but from what I can find the BAR still sets the bar on semi-automatic traditional styled hunting rifles. __________________ NRA Life Member There are some ideas so preposterous that only an intellectual will believe them. - Malcolm Muggeridge

April 26, 2018, 05:43 AM	#13
stillquietvoice Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2015 Location: UPSTATE NY Posts: 179	Are u looking for current production rifles. There are a few win mod 100 rifles out there in 243 284 or 308 that could fit the bill. __________________ actions speak louder than words flatter tragectories quicker results.

April 26, 2018, 08:03 AM	#14
cmdc Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2010 Location: Florida Gulf Coast Posts: 721	I have two BARs, specifically a lightweight stalker in .270 Win, and a left-hand wood-stock one in 7mm-08. Both are good shooters, although the 7mm-08 with its beautiful oil finished walnut stock is almost too pretty to hunt with. The current Browning on-line catalogue does not list a rifle in .25-06.

April 26, 2018, 08:23 AM	#15
SerenityNetworks Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2012 Location: Allen, TX Posts: 416	Thank you. I'll take a look at the Win Mod 100. I just don't have time right now. But to answer the question, no, I'm open to discontinued models. As to the BAR in 25.06, take a look at the listing for the Mark II Safari. (http://www.browning.com/products/fir...ii-safari.html) In the Item Selector area, click on the More Options dropdown and you'll see that it can be had in eight different calibers 25.06 and up. If I were to go that route, I'm not sure if I'd go with the 25.06, the .243, or the .270. But that's another thread. __________________ NRA Life Member There are some ideas so preposterous that only an intellectual will believe them. - Malcolm Muggeridge

April 26, 2018, 04:08 PM	#16
PlatinumCore16 Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 424	The BAR certainly comes to mind initially. If you could make do with a shorter cartridge, an SVT40 or an SKS might be "traditional styled" enough for you. You could always go with an M1 as well. The M1 can certainly hack your accuracy requirement, as can the BAR. I remember someone on the forums had an SVT40 they enjoyed and could lend a hand as to what its practical accuracy was(honestly don't remember who, sorry). They do also sell M1As in wood furniture, but perhaps not in the 6.5? Could always swap the stock afterwards if you were so inclined. Last thing I would recommend to you would be a VEPR. The super grade and regular sporter grade have some beautiful wood. The super grade has a full (tip to butt) stock, while the regular sporter has a 2 piece. Both walnut though. That would be the one I have and I can't speak to its accuracy quite yet, but internet reports and talk over at vepr.org would suggest 2MOA or better, ammunition withstanding. I personally got the 54R version, but they make a .308 and x39 version as well. They are no longer being imported, so expect north of $1k and you also have to use an AK style, rail mount; whatever your personal thoughts are on that. It's basically a sporter AK, but will built and comes stock with walnut.

April 26, 2018, 06:24 PM	#17
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"The Howa is the style I'm looking for, but it's a bolt action. I'm looking for a semi-auto only." Not an AR but a semi-auto in a "mid-caliber". That leaves _______ HMM? Darned near nothing. Maybe one of the WW2 German 7.92x33 whatchamakallits.

April 26, 2018, 07:45 PM	#18
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	I don't think you're going to find what you're looking for. The semi-auto sporter rifles designed for hunting are mostly lacking. Most are less than reliable and accurate as well as being too heavy and expensive. The BAR or Benelli semi-auto hunting rifles are probably the closest, but just too expensive and heavy for me. The semi-autos based on military designs such as the AR, Garand, etc. are going to be your best bet if it has to be semi-auto. While never quite as accurate as a bolt gun in the same price range, the AR platform has proven to be pretty darn accurate and reliable. An AR15 in 6.5 Grendel would probably be the least expensive route. The AR10's in the longer 308 class cartridges are a lot more expensive and start getting excessively heavy. Honestly, once you get into rifles with recoil above 223 levels the rate of aimed fire isn't that much greater than a bolt rifle. Sure, you can empty the magazine faster, but if you actually slow down enough to hit something the rate of fire is virtually the same. There is a reason that the light tactical type bolt guns are becoming more common. Ruger is making their American Predator rifle available with 3, 5, and 10 round AI style magazines now in several calibers for about 1/2 to 1/4 the price of semi-autos in the same calibers. If you don't want an AR type rifle, and I understand that, a bolt rifle is going to be the best option I think __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

April 26, 2018, 09:36 PM	#19
SerenityNetworks Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2012 Location: Allen, TX Posts: 416	jmr40, you may be right. I have more bolt action rifles than anything else, as they are my by far my favorite platform, and although I like military type designs I really don't want another (unless I choose to spring for a really high performance model, which most likely will never happen). I was just looking for something in a form different from everything else in my safe. Like you say, the effective rate of fire isn't going to be much higher than a bolt action once the cartridge gets much beyond a .223. With its heft, a BAR might handle a .243 (which is a round I personally like) pretty well. But I'm not sure. I'd want to try before I buy and that's likely not going to happen either. Oh well, it was worth asking around. I appreciate all the input. Thanks again, Andrew __________________ NRA Life Member There are some ideas so preposterous that only an intellectual will believe them. - Malcolm Muggeridge

April 27, 2018, 04:23 PM	#22
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Are you opposed to mil-surps? Quite a few from all around the world that fit your criteria. __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

April 27, 2018, 09:28 PM	#23
SerenityNetworks Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2012 Location: Allen, TX Posts: 416	Thanks. No, I'm not opposed to Mil-Surps. But I don't know that the accuracy would be what I would like. If I'm mistaken, please point me in the right direction. Thanks for the link to Accuracy Systems. I perused the site a little. I like what they have done with some of the Mini and Remingtons. It's something to think about. Then again, I wonder would they be any more accurate than a BAR out of the box. __________________ NRA Life Member There are some ideas so preposterous that only an intellectual will believe them. - Malcolm Muggeridge

April 28, 2018, 06:57 AM	#24
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	How about an ag42 in 6.5 Swede? link Last edited by 2damnold4this; April 28, 2018 at 06:48 PM.