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June 10, 2011, 04:49 AM | #1 | |
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Now 70% of the guns used in crimes in Mexico come from the US
The harshly disputed claim that 90% of the guns in Mexico used in crimes come from the US has been replaced by the much more scientific 70%.
Whatever the truth may be I would point out that of those 70% thousands can likely be traced directly back to the ATF letting them across the border. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...=ITP_pageone_1 If you look at the chart you can see that they were either "manufactured in the US or imported in to the US". It does not say how many were "Sold in the US". I only point this out because they very well could have been given to the Mexican Government by the US government and then sold to drug dealers by government officials. Quote:
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June 10, 2011, 07:11 AM | #2 | ||||
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We can rip this apart just on the basis of the snippet quoted:
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The collective data still show that a full 30 percent (okay, 29.9 percent) of the cherry-picked guns submitted STILL could not be traced. Quote:
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June 10, 2011, 07:25 AM | #3 |
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Where do you suppose most of the guns used in crimes in this country are from? Mexico?
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June 10, 2011, 08:52 AM | #4 |
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That is a good question. The most popular single gun in America is the Glock Pistol. Since handguns are used in the vast majority of crimes I would say that most likely most guns used in crimes in America are from Austria.
I am all on board a complete and total ban of all Glocks coming into the US. They should not be allowed for purchase by anyone including law enforcement. By their logic this should greatly reduce crime in both the US and Mexico.
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June 10, 2011, 09:30 AM | #5 |
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What is your source for information about Glocks? Are they the best selling or are they the most common? Either way, your logic is spot on. Might even help the balance of payments.
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June 10, 2011, 10:37 AM | #6 |
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We debunked these claims on another site recently. We are barely responsible for 10% of the guns in Mexico. We also are one of the only nations that have anyway at all to determine the origination of a gun. I think what we concluded was that this 70% number in reallity is just over 10% of the crime guns.
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June 10, 2011, 10:57 AM | #7 | |
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The "logic" of gun-banners
MTT TL:
Quote:
Using similar "logic", let's say that, statistically, the type of car most frequently involved in fatal crashes is a blue Chevy; just think how many lives would be saved if we would only ban blue Chevys! Abusus non tollit usum. |
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June 10, 2011, 01:05 PM | #8 |
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So, 70% of the guns that were recovered and submitted for tracing were either manufactured or imported into the U.S. How many guns were recovered but not submitted for tracing? How many guns were used in crimes but not recovered at all? A statistic can say anything you want it to depending on how it's presented and worded.
Honestly though, it doesn't really matter what percentage of Mexican crime guns come from the U.S. The Mexican police and military can get just as sophisticated arms and armor as what a cartel can smuggle out of the U.S., yet the cartels still seem to have the upper hand. It seems to me that a government buerachracy full of corrupt officials has more to do with Mexico's ills than guns from the U.S. do. Given the unchecked flow of illegal aliens and drugs that seems to be flowing out of Mexico, we don't seem to have nearly as much trouble maintaining law and order here. Perhaps Mexico should concentrate more on putting their own house in order and less on lecturing other nations. |
June 10, 2011, 01:25 PM | #9 |
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Anyone see the stuff on the ATF allowing guns into mexico no less?
The obama administration is trying to build this statistic...all I can see after reading about how we allowed guns to go into Mexico (and quite a few 50 BMG rifles went across the border?!) |
June 10, 2011, 01:28 PM | #10 |
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WebleyMkV beat me to the premise; but the real question isn't the U.S. origin; it is where did they come from in the U.S.?
Fox News recently reported that paid ATF informants were given fake IDs and access to buy M2HB Machineguns for Mexican cartels and that the MGs were subsequently "walked." I'd be willing to bet that a substantial portion of the "U.S. origin" weapons are military stuff that has originated as United States government aid to Mexico, Guatemala, or other countries in the region. Cracking down on gun stores won't help you much if Uncle Sam is selling direct. |
June 10, 2011, 07:03 PM | #11 |
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I would say that 70% couldn't be verified because no one really knows how many firearms the Mexican Government has confiscated in total. Does anybody here believe that they would publish real numbers?
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June 10, 2011, 10:22 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
If you're interested, here's a link to a recent list of auctioned guns: http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/c...01_25_2011.pdf |
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June 12, 2011, 11:56 PM | #13 |
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I was watching a Canadian or British news special about America's "obsession" with guns last year. They said that most of the guns that make it to Mexico come from just 20 or 30 gun stores, most on them being in the south.
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June 13, 2011, 12:41 AM | #14 | |
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Seriously, According to a recently retired Customs and Immigration agent friend of mine who was in and around Nogales, many of the so-called "U.S. originating" firearms included in the Mexican crime stats are, in fact, stolen M-16s that were taken by deserters from the Mexican Army who joined the various cartels. Yes, they are U.S. made, and yes, they are stolen. Let's just leave out "the rest of the story." |
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June 13, 2011, 02:30 AM | #15 |
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Just ask them!
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June 13, 2011, 05:14 AM | #16 |
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I wonder how many American made firearms were M16's sold to the Mexican Army that "walked".
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June 13, 2011, 05:46 AM | #17 |
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If it's really a problem, they should gather all the US sourced guns and send them back to us. I'm sure someone here could find a good home for them.
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June 13, 2011, 08:23 AM | #18 |
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Wikileaks recently released documents which show that the overwhelming majority of the drug cartels' guns were stolen from government arsenals throughout Latin America -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1Nx0p7gq1 The last I heard, the Mexican gov't was only submitting a small fraction (maybe 20% ?) of the "crime scene" guns for BATF traces because all the other guns were obviously not of civilian origin. As the Wikileaks documents demonstrate, U.S. officials are well aware that guns smuggled into Mexico from the U.S. do not make up 70% of the cartels' arsenals. |
June 15, 2011, 04:05 PM | #19 | |
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Quote:
As far as the brand of guns confiscated and resold goes. I am sure if their were any big brand name guns confiscated from the hoods they would be returned to their rightful owners which they were stolen from. |
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