Your last gun fight..??

[OneFreeTexan]

this is tongue in cheek,,, however, I have carried for over 30 yrs, and never had to draw. good thing of course, because I carry a snub revolver,, only 5 or 6 shots.

So all you experts that carry 10-12 round magazines,,, and or have at least 3 or 4 more stashed in holders or pockets. How many have you used in an actual gun fight??

I need to have a legit reason to carry more..

I do practice with my revolver at least three times a week, shooting 50 rounds each time... I think I am fairly good at ranges 7 to 10 yards.

[TunnelRat]

Never. Kind of hard to tell if your comments are a bit passive aggressive, but sarcasm isn't easy in text form. Carry what you want. I used to know an instructor that would say, "I won't be in your gunfight." We all have to evaluate what's best for ourselves.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[pete2]

Last gunfight I was in, I had a .50 MG. Never in one as a civilian so the 5 rounds in my 642 has always been enough. It is a last ditch survival tool. Not intended for a fire fight.

[Targa]

I was 12 years old. I had my trusty Daisy 880 BB gun, my best friend had his crossman BB gun. We each took positions behind cover on opposite sides of a pretty wide gully, I was behind some rocks and he was behind a tree but I could see part of him, I couldn’t tell what part, just a part of him in a part of the tree that v’ed off in different directions. We agreed on a two pump limit when we were shooting at each other, I pumped mine three times.... I took aim and shot at whatever part of him that I saw between the tree and quickly ducked behind my rocks, I noticed that I wasn’t hearing any more ricocheting bb’s bouncing off the rocks I was hiding behind and then out of no where I here him scream out, “That was more than two pumps you A**HOLE” as he came out rubbing the side of his head.. There you have it, my last gun fight.

[dyl]

then out of no where I here him scream out, “That was more than two pumps you A**HOLE” as he came out rubbing the side of his head..

HAHAHa, the things kids do. That was a good friend to not demand compensation of some kind.

I need to have a legit reason to carry more..

- I've found a decently easy way to carry a mag with 6 more rounds. That's for a Kahr CM9 though, but carrying a speed strip with 6 rounds would be even lighter. Right now both my jackets have pockets next to the main zipper at chest level. I never use those pockets. I put a 6 round mag in a zip lock and stick it in there. It stays in the jacket. If someone steals my jacket, they have 6 rounds but not my gun to go with it. It's not as accessible as on my person, but it's a compromise. I just hope I don't forget next time I get on an airplane...

[JohnKSa]

So all you experts that carry 10-12 round magazines,,, and or have at least 3 or 4 more stashed in holders or pockets. How many have you used in an actual gun fight??

Why would the parameters of someone else's gunfight constrain yours to be the same?

I need to have a legit reason to carry more..

There is certainly information available that could help you make a good decision, but an informal poll probably isn't going to be a productive approach.

The simplest approach is to do what most people do. Pick a gun that (you like/you think is cool/you already own/is comfortable and-or easy to carry/that you want to carry/etc.) and then carry it. If someone asks why you carry it, don't tell them the real reason(s), instead tell them something like (6 for sure is enough, I don't spray and pray, I researched the problem extensively and decided that 5 was sufficient for 99% of civilian gunfights, revolvers are much more reliable than semi-autos, etc.).

Or you could do some research and decide how many rounds you think is a reasonable amount to carry, whether or not you think a reload makes sense; do some shooting to determine which platforms that fit those parameters perform best for you and then base your carry gun on the results of that research & testing.

[TunnelRat]

instead tell them something like (6 for sure is enough, I don't spray and pray, I researched the problem extensively and decided that 5 was sufficient for 99% of civilian gunfights, revolvers are much more reliable than semi-autos, etc.).

[Sgt127]

When I first became a cop, I carried a 1911 and two spare mags, off duty.
Then a 1911 and one spare mag.
Then a Detonics and a 1911 mag.
Then I bounced around for a bit with a 65 3” and a couple speedloaders.
Then a 642 and a speed strip.

Finally decided that wasn’t enough. If something bad happened, I knew I was going towards the problem and, I should be armed appropriately.

I’ve now settled on a Sig P239 DAK 9mm, appendix, and two spare mags.

It’s light, flat, easy to carry and the two spare mags ride easily in a mag case I made.

Anyone that carries any gun is already ahead of the curve. I’ve got enough to kinda go on the offense if I need to. But, that’s me.

Check back in a couple years. It’s been a 35 year evolution.

[briandg]

my last gunfight ended in a draw. I didn't shoot and he ran like a little wahh wahh baby with a poopy diaper. I had fifteen rounds, but I would have done just as well with the two rounds in my coach gun. One for each of them.

[Lohman446]

If someone asks why you carry it, don't tell them the real reason(s), instead tell them something like (6 for sure is enough, I don't spray and pray, I researched the problem extensively and decided that 5 was sufficient for 99% of civilian gunfights, revolvers are much more reliable than semi-autos, etc.).

Or you could just indicate those who have made a decision different than you did could not have possibly done so for logical reasons because logic can only have one correct answer*. Sarcasm still does not carry well

*For the record, outside of empirically tested evidence to the contrary, logic can often have multiple answers that are logically reasonable. Logic can even be wrong. Galileo's arguments built on empirical testing of inclined planes and objects of different weights were not as much an affront to the Church of the day as they were to arguments built off Aristotelian logic (which was important to the Church of the day). Premises were shown to be wrong through empirical testing but until that point were accepted as correct.

[USNRet93]

EDC is as much for the person doing it as 'against the BG', in the possible but improbable situation they might find themselves..In other words, it's a 'I feel good/better when I carry' situation. What and how depends on the person.

I have health, car, house, life, insurance as well. Have a fire extinguisher in the kitchen, locks on my doors..

I just went to Wisconsin, flew, didn't 'take' anything..didn't like being 'naked'...

[American Man]

Originally Posted by OneFreeTexan

this is tongue in cheek,,, however, I have carried for over 30 yrs, and never had to draw. good thing of course, because I carry a snub revolver,, only 5 or 6 shots.

So all you experts that carry 10-12 round magazines,,, and or have at least 3 or 4 more stashed in holders or pockets. How many have you used in an actual gun fight??

I need to have a legit reason to carry more..

I do practice with my revolver at least three times a week, shooting 50 rounds each time... I think I am fairly good at ranges 7 to 10 yards.

You need a legit reason to carry more rounds?... from who? From other people?

I learn from other people's mistakes. And nothing in all the stories I have heard led me to believe out of the 12 rounds in my magazine, I was carrying, 6 was too many.

Does your snubbie have 5 rounds or 6 rounds? I seem to know how many rounds all my snubbies have.

Seems like you have a low opinion of people who carry a semi auto... especially one with 10-12 rounds.

You ever hear of "rather have and not need than need and not have"... and I would say that 12 rounds is not a whole lot to have on hand if you are in a fight despite FBI stats that most civilian encounters are settled with 1-3 shots. I personally don't have today's or tomorrow's schedule of people who will be in a gunfight.

I've never been in a civilian gun fight, but I have an idea how South things can go by just casually observing the news for almost 5 decades. I did have to draw on 3 separate incidents and I was not the one who was arrested either time. If someone wants to carry 5 rounds in a revolver so be it. If someone wants to carry a Glock 20 with 2 extra mags, so be it. They don't have to justify it or give me a reason. I'm not even the least bit curious.

[OldMarksman]

So all you experts that carry 10-12 round magazines,,, and or have at least 3 or 4 more stashed in holders or pockets. How many have you used in an actual gun fight??

The question is meaningless.

How many active duty American combat pilots have ever fired at an enemy plane?

None.

What should we divine from that?

Does that mean that they do not have to have the mindset, the skillset, and the toolset?

[USNRet93]

Originally Posted by OldMarksman

The question is meaningless.

How many active duty American combat pilots have ever fired at an enemy plane?

None.

What should we divine from that?

Does that mean that they do not have to have the mindset, the skillset, and the toolset?

June 18, 2017 was the last..a SU-22 and the guy is probably still in. USN F-18E..

CDR Patrick McKenna onboard USS Roosevelt. He was XO then, became CO a year later..
Relieved July 2019..think he's still in. Can't find what he's doing now.

But your point well taken.

[OneFreeTexan]

Love the responses,,,,,all good,!!!

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by OldMarksman

How many active duty American combat pilots have ever fired at an enemy plane?

None.

What should we divine from that?

Does that mean that they do not have to have the mindset, the skillset, and the toolset?

In the context of the related discussion about the "need" to carry high capacity weaponry, I guess this would mean that our pilots only "need" to fly F-22s with only 50 rounds for the rotary cannon, and only two Sidewinders. After all, why carry eight missiles when we never use them? Two should be plenty.

[Don Fischer]

I like my auto loader 22LR but for CF I like DA's. That said I have two carry guns, P89 Ruger and a S&W Shield 9c. I seldom carry the Ruger, to big and to heavy. The S&W is just right with the 8 RD mag, little finger doesn't slip under the grip. Revolver's I'd only carry 5 rds in, probably enough. But revolver's are for me not good guns to hide. My little Smith hides away very well and I carry 8 rds in it rather than 5. I do carry one extra 8 rd clip. Better to have and not need than to need and not have. With the Smith the extra mag weight's little to nothing. With the Ruger the extra mag with 16 rounds is much heavier. If Iwere to ever get into a gun fight, I doubt the fight would go on after I'd shot 8 rds. If so then I think my chance's of dying escalate. I believe that most bad guy's with gun's want the gun only to intimidate the victim. I believe the victim pull's out a gun and the one that get's intimidated is the bag guy. That of course blows up in your face if the bad guy really is a bad guy! In that case on the chance I did get off 8 shot's without the bad guy going down, I got 8 more rounds and reloading an auto is much faster than a revolver! If the fight goes on more than 16 rds I'm pretty sure I've lost and am laying on the ground. I don't believe anything is for sure in a gun fight and your chances of losing to a real bad guy are probably 50/50. Gun fight to me does not seem to be the place to get full of yourself. Even the idiot that knows squat about gun's and never practice's is capable of getting off the one lucky shot now and then. My plan should this ever become a reality is watch for the chance to escape. I am not an experienced gun fighter and I'm better off getting out of the situation.

[davidsog]

How many have you used in an actual gun fight??

In a 43 hour continuous firefight in 2002 I went thru 3 basic combat loads myself and the unit was resupplied twice with ammo/water.

I have never seen a gunfight lost because the other side had too many rounds but I have seen them lost for lack of shooting back.

[bamaranger]

The OP questions are geared to support his logic that he is adequately armed because he will likely never need a firearm , and intones that those who carry more are over doing it. The truth is that nearly all of us who carry will never "need" a firearm to defend ourselves or others, and in the small percentage that do, the likelihood of needing a reload to end things is even smaller. If the OP is content with his 5/6 rds (I read a post recently where one member does not carry a reload for his snub either) well and good for him.

But in the rare instance where things go bad, and you need your firearm, you will need it very badly. A firearm that is easier to shoot than a snub, and holds ample rounds will be an asset, provided one is capable of utilizing the advantages it provides. I hope I am up for the problem, and if that day comes to me, I want more gun than my 5 shot snub can offer. Yes, I own one, but always feel under armed when it is all I have. Most commonly, I carry it as a second gun.

One cannot predict where or when their encounter will occur, and what it will look like. But modern video allows us to view a large number of deadly force encounters, in this country and all over the world. Multiple assailants and assailants armed with more gun than a "saturday night special" are not uncommon. The "threat" has changed in my view, and more gun is never a bad thing.

[Lohman446]

The "threat" has changed in my view, and more gun is never a bad thing.

"We", as a group, appear to like to argue a lot. More gun is never a bad thing until it reaches the point that you have so much gun you leave it at home. There is something distinctive to the contours of a revolver that, for some people, make it easier to carry than small autos that are dimensionally very similar. I expect that many people, myself included at times, carry a revolver because we are not going to carry something else.

We seem to be arguing different sides of the same coin in a lot of these discussions. The OP is not wrong. Most of the time a civilian would need a gun for legitimate self defense five rounds is going to be enough - the numbers on this are all over and the samples are not all the same but the average and median rounds used in a positive outcome use of force seems to be around 2 or 3 (I found several that come up with 2.X which would favor 3 but were technically closer to 2). Its interesting to note many of these only reference positive outcomes. Did those without a positive outcome fail because of lack of rounds fired? Skill of the defender? Skill or number of the aggressors? There are a lot of confounding variables that are not something one can isolate.

BUT the other argument is not without its merits either. If you run out of ammunition its going to be a MAJOR problem and regardless of the actual numbers of shots fired you are much more likely to run out of ammunition at 5 rounds than 10 (or 15, or whatever).

And you know what. Both those above premises can exist and be weighed differently by people making their own choices for what effective self defense means for them.

In the end though it seems very few people are advocating a G19, two spare magazines, and a G26 as back-up for a total of 57 rounds by my count. Even fewer are advocating for a long gun though the vast majority of us seem to argue, if we are ever going to be in a gun fight, want to have a long gun and a bunch of friends with us.

We all make our choices, we live with the result (or don't), and hope we never have to test it. In the end we are all mortal and its just a matter of how mortality finds u. I'm not certain why we, and yes that is the inclusive we, feel the need to convince each other that the decision we have made for ourselves is the right one for others.

[davidsog]

More gun is never a bad thing until it reaches the point that you have so much gun you leave it at home.

Well put.

A friend of mine..a Gentleman in his 80's..recently asked for my help in choosing a new EDC firearm.

He had a nice S&W M36 .38spc that he carried since the 1970's. It was a good pistol and he could be quite effective with it but age had degraded his eyesight which led to him having trouble acquiring the front sight. He was a very good shot, had experience on the US Navy Pistol Team, and combat experience in Vietnam. His stance and shooting techniques very much reflected the 1960's and 1970's. The pistol was normally kept in the glove compartment of his vehicle.

I let him shoot my P365 and he was very impressed with the pistol and its capability. With the night sights standard, it turned out be easy for him to see. Additionally I was able to demonstrate some shooting drills for multiple targets and various magazine changes (tactical and emergency).

He ended up purchasing a P365, holster, magazine holder, and two 12 round magazines. He has since routinely practiced every morning drawing, grip, and stance adopting to a modern style.

He carries the pistol on his person in such a manner that he can get to it whether driving, sitting, or walking. Several times he has remarked how much better able to defend himself and more capable a defense he is now able to put forth compared to the Model 36.

One of the few who able to adapt to new tricks after a lifetime of doing very well with his older techniques.

[TailGator]

The question of how many rounds to carry is, to me, a question of how prepared one wants to be.

A very large majority of the American populace carries nothing, and never suffers any ill effects from being unarmed. But there are a few people in the nation's newspapers every day who probably wish they had gone armed.

A person who carries a snub revolver is better prepared than all of those, and the mere sight of a handgun ends a fair number of criminal encounters. But an encounter that includes any combination of multiple attackers, more determined attacker, or less than stellar marksmanship by the defender could leave the defender wishing for more capability.

A person who carries a semi with or without a second mag has more abilities, but could conceivably still be overcome by a sustained attack or by plain old bad luck regarding getting hits and getting hit.

How prepared do you want to be? The choice is yours.

[American Man]

Originally Posted by davidsog

In a 43 hour continuous firefight in 2002 I went thru 3 basic combat loads myself and the unit was resupplied twice with ammo/water.

I have never seen a gunfight lost because the other side had too many rounds but I have seen them lost for lack of shooting back.

I hear you on that. Been outnumbered, overpowered, with casualties, out of water and low on ammo and still managed to win. And being low on ammo is something that will never be forgotten... it is a entirely unique fear. Even as a civilian, it's not something I ever want to experience again. It all boils down to complacency as a civilian. I gave up on comfort a long time ago to where if I ever do feel comfortable, like checking the mailbox on the main road with the gun left on the console, I realize immediately and put it on just to walk 10 feet. I don't grab the spare magazine for that though. lol

There are a few urban areas not that far where packs of thugs pile in a car looking for trouble. Even out in the country, I'll be filling up gas on a nice day and hear thundering base a mile away only to have these losers pull right in the station... and I'm always glad I have additional ammo on hand if I need it.

[T. O'Heir]

"...need to have a legit reason to carry more..." "I want one." is the only reason you need. Adults get to do that.
Mind you, if you can't get out of the mess you got into with 5 or 6, 10 or 12 isn't going to help. CCW is not about going into combat. Isn't about being a cop either.

[CDW4ME]

I've been carrying since 1992, never "needed" a single bullet.
My EDC is a Glock 23 IWB + spare mag + 2nd option™ pistol in weak hand pocket.
Option to put my hand on it without revealing I'm carrying and option to quickly access pistol with weak hand if dominant hand unavailable.

My philosophy is to carry a primary pistol that I would prefer to have in hand if I had to defend myself, with the additional criteria of: is easily concealed, even in summer attire and tolerable for 2 mile walks with my dogs.

Preferred pistol (Glock 23) does not change due to location or time of day; I consider what I'm carrying "sufficient" for wherever.

Just a pocket gun fails both simple criteria, a pocket gun is not what I would prefer in hand if I had to defend myself nor would I consider one "sufficient" for wherever. Some people have a flawed (opinion, I know) carry philosophy where their carry increases with distance from home (location) or time of day, as if criminals & psychopaths are mostly immobile & nocturnal.

Main idea: There is nowhere I'd prefer to bet my life on "just" a snub or pocket 380 rather than a Glock 23 and I carry accordingly.