12ga Squib Reloads?!

Big T · December 21, 2011, 10:22 AM

Folks, I reloaded a bunch of 12 ga Remington skeet hulls for grouse hunting back in 2001. Not sure on the powder; could have been Unique (maybe Clays), but no longer certain. They worked fine for a few years, and then about three years ago they barely fired; you could see the shot coming out of the barrel.

They had been stored in a .50 cal ammo can with the rubber seal, so I opened the can and let it sit for months, and now some of the shells shoot and some still are weak. This ever happen to you? (it hasn't in my previous 40 years of reloading; some reloads are way older than these and work fine) Anything I can do to avoid it in the future. (I'm not using sealed storage cans any more).

Thanks!

LeroyvdH · December 21, 2011, 11:00 AM

Your powder may have been humid when it was reloaded. I only load slugs now. Anything over 1 year old is range fodder. It will pattern different the older it gets. Powder can stay good for years in its container. I also have a rule: I don't load for armagedon only about 30 day supply. Keeps things fresh
Stay safe
Leroy

243winxb · December 21, 2011, 11:03 AM

I would not blame it on the powder. The plastic wad covers/protects the powder, along with the crimp. Its possibe to short stroke the charge bar on a progressive Mec, not dropping a full charge of powder. Its also possible a brass washer moved and blocked powder flow, even using a Mec 600 jr. [IMG]

[/IMG] Part Number: 304W This brass washer is placed on top of the powders charge bar.Its keeps powders like W296 from leaking from between the bar & measure. If damaged/flattened, this washer can move with the bar. This can cause powder not to drop correctly, resulting in a light powder charger/wad stuck in the barrel. Set the wad seating ram to show a tiny amount of wad pressure on seating. This will show you if there is enough powder in the case.

mrawesome22 · December 21, 2011, 12:12 PM

Sounds like some do not have the correct amount of powder in them.

BigJimP · December 21, 2011, 12:15 PM

I'm not saying I've never had a bad shell ...but a 10 yr old shell, in and of itself, should fire fine - if it was stored in a dry environment and not extreme humidity or temp's... 10 yrs, or 20 or 30 yrs is no big deal.

Storing shells in old ammo cans is fine ...but I'd put them where its dry / and ideally not humid or with big temperature swings.

My hunch is either humidity / or a bad powder drop / or the wrong wad is your issue. Its a reminder to keep a reloading log ....so you know what you loaded in those days. ( type of powder, how much powder, wad, etc ..).

What I'd do is cut open a handful of the shells you have loaded - and measure the powder and see what you have ....if its more than 0.2 grains of variation / I think its safe to assume you made some mistakes in your loading procedures - could be components / or your press was not tuned properly - hard to tell.

Follow a published recipe ...don't substitute anything...
Store them in a moderate temp area / dry place ...ammo cans are fine.
Keep a log on what you loaded for components.../label the box or whatever works for you.

I've reloaded for well over 50 yrs as well...and I load 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 ...and lots of them ....but a couple of points:

a. stick with one hull. In 12ga, I really like Remington STS or Remington Nitro hulls. Plastic is good and strong / lots of published recipes. Don't mix hulls - they are not interchangeable !!

b. 12ga powder...one of the best is Hodgdon Clays. Drops consistently / available most places... Use the load tables / not a buddies recipe ...and look it up - and make sure its right.

c. pick a consistent wad ...in 12ga Win WAA-12 is the 1 1/8oz of shot wad ...and you can substitue a "Blue Duster", or a CB 1118-12 wad or a few others....but keep it consistent. I like the winchester wads or the Duster wads...depends on what you can get locally.

d. if you use a recipe and a wad for 1 1/8oz ....then load 1 1/8oz ( of 8's or 6's or whatever you want ...).

e. pick a primer and stay with it ...like Win 209's ....don't mix primers. Its different than handgun loads ...you can't mix primers / and if you change primers the load usually changes...

Not that you don't have a recipe ...but one I do like, if I want to shoot 1 1/8 oz loads ...Win 209 primer, STS hulls, 12ga, WAA12 wad, and 18.4 grains of Clays for 1200 fps. But don't take my word for it ....look it up on the Hodgdon site.

243winxb · December 21, 2011, 04:35 PM

Mec does not recommend use of a
Powder Baffle, when i ask them years ago. Possible bridging of the powder.

Lemmon · December 21, 2011, 05:58 PM

I have not loaded 12 gauge shells in a while but I always ended up with some that I was not sure about placed them in a special bucket for later use. My cousin came buy one day and showed me his new pawn shop special single shot 12 gauge shotgun that had seen better days. He knew I reloaded 12 gauge and wanted to get some free test shells. Living out in the middle of no where it was ok to take a few test shots in the front yard. The shell loaded with out any effort or trouble and he fired at a can that I threw in the air. A loud POP (not BOOM) and the shot and wad flew out of the barrel about 10 feet and slowly hit the ground. It almost looked like it rolled out of the barrel.....great fun....I assured him that it was not his shotgun. Sorry but I could not hold this old story back... Merry Christmas..

Lemmon

December 21, 2011, 10:22 AM	#1
Big T Junior Member Join Date: December 18, 2011 Posts: 3	12ga Squib Reloads?! Folks, I reloaded a bunch of 12 ga Remington skeet hulls for grouse hunting back in 2001. Not sure on the powder; could have been Unique (maybe Clays), but no longer certain. They worked fine for a few years, and then about three years ago they barely fired; you could see the shot coming out of the barrel. They had been stored in a .50 cal ammo can with the rubber seal, so I opened the can and let it sit for months, and now some of the shells shoot and some still are weak. This ever happen to you? (it hasn't in my previous 40 years of reloading; some reloads are way older than these and work fine) Anything I can do to avoid it in the future. (I'm not using sealed storage cans any more). Thanks!

December 21, 2011, 11:03 AM	#3
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Shotgun I would not blame it on the powder. The plastic wad covers/protects the powder, along with the crimp. Its possibe to short stroke the charge bar on a progressive Mec, not dropping a full charge of powder. Its also possible a brass washer moved and blocked powder flow, even using a Mec 600 jr. [IMG][/IMG] Part Number: 304W This brass washer is placed on top of the powders charge bar.Its keeps powders like W296 from leaking from between the bar & measure. If damaged/flattened, this washer can move with the bar. This can cause powder not to drop correctly, resulting in a light powder charger/wad stuck in the barrel. Set the wad seating ram to show a tiny amount of wad pressure on seating. This will show you if there is enough powder in the case.

December 21, 2011, 04:35 PM	#6
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Shotgun Powder Baffle Mec does not recommend use of a Powder Baffle, when i ask them years ago. Possible bridging of the powder.

December 21, 2011, 11:00 AM	#2
LeroyvdH Junior Member Join Date: June 24, 2011 Posts: 3	Your powder may have been humid when it was reloaded. I only load slugs now. Anything over 1 year old is range fodder. It will pattern different the older it gets. Powder can stay good for years in its container. I also have a rule: I don't load for armagedon only about 30 day supply. Keeps things fresh Stay safe Leroy

December 21, 2011, 12:12 PM	#4
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Sounds like some do not have the correct amount of powder in them.

December 21, 2011, 12:15 PM	#5
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I'm not saying I've never had a bad shell ...but a 10 yr old shell, in and of itself, should fire fine - if it was stored in a dry environment and not extreme humidity or temp's... 10 yrs, or 20 or 30 yrs is no big deal. Storing shells in old ammo cans is fine ...but I'd put them where its dry / and ideally not humid or with big temperature swings. My hunch is either humidity / or a bad powder drop / or the wrong wad is your issue. Its a reminder to keep a reloading log ....so you know what you loaded in those days. ( type of powder, how much powder, wad, etc ..). What I'd do is cut open a handful of the shells you have loaded - and measure the powder and see what you have ....if its more than 0.2 grains of variation / I think its safe to assume you made some mistakes in your loading procedures - could be components / or your press was not tuned properly - hard to tell. Follow a published recipe ...don't substitute anything... Store them in a moderate temp area / dry place ...ammo cans are fine. Keep a log on what you loaded for components.../label the box or whatever works for you. I've reloaded for well over 50 yrs as well...and I load 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 ...and lots of them ....but a couple of points: a. stick with one hull. In 12ga, I really like Remington STS or Remington Nitro hulls. Plastic is good and strong / lots of published recipes. Don't mix hulls - they are not interchangeable !! b. 12ga powder...one of the best is Hodgdon Clays. Drops consistently / available most places... Use the load tables / not a buddies recipe ...and look it up - and make sure its right. c. pick a consistent wad ...in 12ga Win WAA-12 is the 1 1/8oz of shot wad ...and you can substitue a "Blue Duster", or a CB 1118-12 wad or a few others....but keep it consistent. I like the winchester wads or the Duster wads...depends on what you can get locally. d. if you use a recipe and a wad for 1 1/8oz ....then load 1 1/8oz ( of 8's or 6's or whatever you want ...). e. pick a primer and stay with it ...like Win 209's ....don't mix primers. Its different than handgun loads ...you can't mix primers / and if you change primers the load usually changes... Not that you don't have a recipe ...but one I do like, if I want to shoot 1 1/8 oz loads ...Win 209 primer, STS hulls, 12ga, WAA12 wad, and 18.4 grains of Clays for 1200 fps. But don't take my word for it ....look it up on the Hodgdon site.

December 21, 2011, 05:58 PM	#7
Lemmon Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2009 Location: Rural South Carolina Posts: 445	I have not loaded 12 gauge shells in a while but I always ended up with some that I was not sure about placed them in a special bucket for later use. My cousin came buy one day and showed me his new pawn shop special single shot 12 gauge shotgun that had seen better days. He knew I reloaded 12 gauge and wanted to get some free test shells. Living out in the middle of no where it was ok to take a few test shots in the front yard. The shell loaded with out any effort or trouble and he fired at a can that I threw in the air. A loud POP (not BOOM) and the shot and wad flew out of the barrel about 10 feet and slowly hit the ground. It almost looked like it rolled out of the barrel.....great fun....I assured him that it was not his shotgun. Sorry but I could not hold this old story back... Merry Christmas.. Lemmon