Was Re-Loading in the Past Deadlier?

[UtopiaTexasG19]

Does anyone have any factual information about how re-loading was done prior to the 1920's by individuals? Were there kits like the Lee Handload set up and what was used for scales? Did folks, farmers and those who lived in very rural areas, load their own, or was something like the old Sears catalog used for buying bullets? I am just curious as to the methods used way, way back to re-load. Thanks...

[snuffy]

Well, while I'm an old faRte, I'm not THAT old. So I have to say I don't know. From what I've read and heard, reloading didn't really take off until after WW11. Fred Huntington started making bullet swaging dies in the back room of his fathers laundry 'round about 1943. He's the founder of RCBS,(Rock Chuck Bullet Swage.)

Joyce Hornady started making controlled expanding bullets in 1949. This was in Grand Island Nebraska. That's a paper making town, he would try different methods of bullet construction, then shoot them into wet-lap which is paper pulp before it's made into paper. If a bullet mushroomed correctly without coming apart, it would do so in animals as well.

I'm sure there were some doing reloading before that, but I don't know what the tools looked like. I do suspect they looked a lot like the lee basic loader, a system of punches. Or an arbor press for sizing and bullet seating.

The RCBS compound leverage system designed by Fred Huntington, for the rock chucker revolutionized loading presses from then on.

[Ideal Tool]

Hello, UtopiaTexasG19. There is quite a bit of information on this subject. Ballard, Remington, and Sharps offered hand-loading sets as an option with their rifles. The very first Sharps loading tools were quite crude by todays standards..really nothing more than a chamber reamed in a block of steel..ctg. was pushed home & bullet seated..with no adjustments. Later, companies such as the Ideal Mnfg. Company brought out tong-type tools..the earliest had an attatched mould & no seating adjustment..later, adjustable chambers & seperate moulds were brought out. The most popular Ideal tool was the No.3..thiscould be had with a so-called double adjustable chamber..the ability to crimp or not, and having adjustments for seating depth.
When rimless ctgs. came out, such as the .30-03, .30-06, 7mm Mauser, etc, they brought out a special tool with a swiveling hook to catch the extractor rim. This was called the No. 10. tool.
Later, the functions of both these tools were combined & the 310 tool was born. The Lyman Gun Sight Company took over from Ideal after the first world war.
The subject of bullet moulds can be a hobby in itself..there are pages and pages of various moulds from Ideal and Lyman that were once common. The early Sharps, Remington and Ideal moulds had integeral handles..later Ideal and Lyman brought out seperate mould blocks & handles..but some of those old Ideal one-piece moulds will better a modern mould for bullet quality!
I collect and use these old nickeled tong-tools, and Ideal moulds. ...Very precise ammunition can be fabricated with them..up until the late 1940's, Winchester developed all of their published loads with these same tools.
I have and use the early Lyman 45 and original Ideal lube-sizers..the handle has Pat. date May 31, 92 cast in.
This old tool with it's handsome nickled lube reservoir, and japaned black cast iron, has perfect top-punch to die-mouth alignment..hardley any play in it's twin guide rods..and quite frankly...makes the modern Lyman 450 and 4500 lubsizers look like so much junk!

[old roper]

Here is something from another site on Ideal Tool



The Ideal Manufacturing Company was one of the early pioneers in reloading equipment starting in the late 1880s with John Barlow's patent of a "Cartridge Implement" issued Dec.23,1884.The tong tool as they are called now.They issued their first Ideal Hand Book in 1892 for reloaders.The Lyman Gunsight Corp. took over Ideal in 1925 and still sells reloading equipment and still sells the 310 tong tool which is a descendant of Barlow's original tools.

The No.5 Powder Measure was introduced about 1904 and continued to be offered until 1949 at which time it was replaced by the No.55 Powder measure.It was one of the first successfull adjustable powder measures to come into use at the time.Older Ideal handbooks have charge settings for different powders for these measures although many of the powders listed have been discontinued long ago.The patent dates on the back have to do with the adjustments for measuring the powder as the the first measure offered,the No.1,featured the same adjustment system.On the collectors market these can run up to $150 depending on completeness and overall condition.They originally came with two brass drop tubes.One 2 inches long and one 7 3/4 inches long.

After WWI company by the name of L.E. Wilson was started and they are still a family owned business today making arbor (hand)dies

[jaguarxk120]

A book you may want to look for is "Handloading Ammunition" By Mattern, the book printed in 1926 gives a look into handloading of the day.

Much of what we do today is the same as it was years ago, but the tooling we have now is like night and day. Our dollars spent on tools today go's farther than ever before. And the variety is much greater today.

[dahermit]

It is my understanding that Buffalo hunters cast their own bullets and hand loaded using primitive tools similar to the Lyman 310 tong tool.

[medalguy]

Yes reloading was done prior to 1900 but it was mostly done by those who lacked access to ammunition, like the buffalo hunters, who required ammo right now that would function, and couldn't always buy it ahead of need, as mentioned. Reloading as a hobby wasn't done very much until after WW II and the availability of cheap powder and components.

[langenc]

Tonto and friends loaded The Lone Rangers ammo-with silver bullets.

After WWI company by the name of L.E. Wilson was started and they are still a family owned business today making arbor (hand)dies Posted just above..

Wilsons products are top notch quality.

[mrawesome22]

So modern reloading practices are deadly

[Ideal Tool]

If you look at some of the old catalogs from Ballard and Maynard..those old straight line tools are pretty close to what the Wilson type chamber tools of today are like. By the time the tong type tools came out in the 80's..most of the Buffalo were gone.
Phill Sharps, Complete Guide To Handloading shows these, as well as the later tong-type tools, and how to use them.
There is a whole chapter devoted to hand-built loading tools..some very precision made straight line's by Neidner and Donaldson.
The rifle "cranks" of the 80's and 90's..up thru WW1 kept handloading alive...at a time when the major arms companies actually tried very hard to discourage the practice.

[amamnn]

If you stop and think about the entire history of firearms, you will quickly realize that the introduction of "factory" ammunition is a recent development, certainly its widespread use is, at any rate. People as a rule, tend to avoid those activities that kill them for no apparent possible gain. Therefore it follows that in days of yore, if handloading had been especially dangerous, we would have seen a less robust and enthusiastic use and improvement of firearms due to the small demand in a deadly activity.


Enter the advent of the internet..............................

We used to say in San Francisco that every kind of nutcase you wanted to meet -- or avoid --was represented in the community. These days you can find at least a couple of dozen of any assorted nuts lurking on the WWW. This seems to be especially true of firearms oriented websites. So, it is not especially surprising that you hear tales of the results of the idiots who leave laser boresighters in the barrel and shoot a round--or of the fools who double charge a "light load" and blame it on the nonexistent phenomenon of "detonation" or...........the list goes on.

Handloading, like driving, or marriage is an inherently dangerous activity. It used to be that the tyro learned from someone--probably a family member who had the beginner's best interests in mind. If a person were not inclined to learn what is a precision activity, the relative would take extra time to teach them and/or encourage them to take up basketball or golf or some less dangerous (to themselves and others) hobby.

These days, people who should never even come close to a gun are encouraged to attempt handloading by--makers of the tools and components--other half educated idiots who think they are "experts" on the subject because they have loaded 400 rounds of the currently fashionable cartridge--and BANG brothers--these last are fools who feels some need to load a cartridge to the gills in order to get the biggest bang--and 50 FPS more MV. If you read today's gunrags and the websites--it's plain that there was never an elk or a moose or a bear killed prior to the introduction of the belted magnum rifle cartridge--all those old timers lied about harvesting game--they really DID starve to death......

So--is it surprising that we read about disasters? Is is surprising that the gun and ammo makers try to protect themselves from lawsuits by a never ending but steadily growing band of idiots?

You did not have that situation back in the 50s when I learned handloading--you had no internet to tell you about the fool in Decatur who blew off his nose by double charging his 357 mag. Too, there were just fewer idiots loading cartridges because there were just fewer idiots--period. This whole subject is just another argument in favor of forced birth control.........AND--rant rant rant rant--------I'm getting ready for at least 4 years of Newt

[farmerboy]

I wonder how they did it too without a chronograph... being sarcastic there..

[Slamfire]

I have read every American Rifleman I can get my hands on, but I was unable to read American Rifleman's prior to the 1920's.

A very good description of reloading Sharps rifles by a Buffalo Hunter was an article in the 30's.

Yes they reloaded. The tools were more primitive. Smokeless powders were very limited but black powder was a very stable technology and you could buy lots of different brands of black powder.

Elmer Keith's books are worth reading as he was active in the 20's.

I read in one book, to keep Troopers busy on the frontier, groups of them had to reload 45/70 cartridges for the next match. They had rifle matches to keep the troops familiar with their weapons.

[res45]

Some good references here.
http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/Cla...s/default.html