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Old May 26, 2021, 05:45 PM   #26
Scorch
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Man, this is going to be a long answer.
Quote:
Scorch, might a moose hunter possibly run into a bear?
Sure! And you might run into a bear when going to take a dump, or when you are gutting a downed animal, or while you are fishing (which is most common because bears hang out where the food is). But apex predators are few and far between usually. You've seen the food pyramid, the bear is at the top (that's why they're called "apex predators"). A customer of mine was a guide in AK for 13 years, and he said you never know where you might run into a bear. Usually, they are just as surprised as you are and run away. Sounds to me like you are afraid of bears!
Quote:
Over in Africa, the most dangerous animals and the hardest ones to gun down are: the cape buffalo, the elephant, the charging lion in thick savanna bush and the rhino.
Over in Africa, the most dangerous animals other than mosquitos and snakes are hippos and crocs, they kill more people than anything except the insects. Why? Because they live close to where people live (close to water), so there are many times more opportunities to run into them while going about your daily work. Sure, elephants, rhino, Cape buffalo and lions are nothing to sneer at, but the chances of running into one are very slim unless you are out sneaking through the bush. And again, they want to get away from you as quickly as possible. Unless you sneak up on one, in which case you better have a rifle.
Quote:
One might want to dispatch a wounded game animal with a sidearm. There might be a defensive situation while out hunting where a sidearm is quicker to handle than a long gun.
OK, let me put down this fully capable rifle and draw my cumbersome handgun to put down an animal I knocked down with my rifle. Nope, not me. Oh, it's not dead? Bang. Done. I've actually done it. Or just grab it by the ear and use a knife on the brain stem.
Quote:
Any one heard any credible reports about grizzly bears harassing deer hunters? I've heard unsubstantiated reports that in areas where both bear and elk share habitat, a rifle shot has become a dinner bell for bears.
I have heard reports of bears coming to the sound of a gunshot. They are predators and scavengers and have learned that there is food where that sound comes from. But I have also spoken with game biologists that say the bears approach carefully because they understand that noise means death to them as well. The hunters usually never know they're there. Once the hunters leave, the gut pile disappears pretty fast.
Quote:
However, 50 yards could be too small a distance to deploy it.
Can I accurately deploy a rifle at 50 yds? Sure, done it several times. And a lot more accurately than a handgun. Especially when hunting. There are no shooting benches out in the field, so you learn to shoot without a rest.
Quote:
Keep in mind that people with hunting rifles often get mauled when they have to put the rifle down for whatever reason (most often field dressing an animal). In addition, hunting rifles are/should be carried WITHOUT a round in the chamber (when there is no shooting opportunity) which adds time to their use for self defense.
Yes, I've read about people getting jumped while field dressing game, but if were a common thing it would be written about more. If I'm hunting, that rifle is carried with a round in the chamber. In fact, unless I'm just out to shoot a Bambi, the rifle is ready at all times, even if I just shot my deer. I unload it when I get back to camp or the vehicle.

Now if you're camping and you want a sidearm, sure, go ahead and carry. If I'm hunting with a rifle in hand, I'm not carrying around an extra 3-4 pounds of handgun I would have to set my rifle down to use. I'll carry another 20 rounds of ammo for the same weight, just in case I get mass frontal attacked by tactical varmints.
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Old May 26, 2021, 05:53 PM   #27
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Moose ruin more people's days than bison. The only way you're going to get into trouble with bison is by being stupid, getting too close, and provoking the animal(s).
But moose will stomp you just for wearing a t-shirt that they don't like.
Yup, and even if they like your shirt that's no guarantee. I had a buddy who got treed by a bull while he was deer hunting. Maybe he could have shot in self-defense. But climbing a tree is a lot easier than the conversation with a Game Warden would have been.
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Old May 26, 2021, 06:51 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
Man, this is going to be a long answer.
Hey, great job answering to all those replies!

A couple of things I wanted to comment on:

1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorch View Post

<<Quote: Pistoler0 However, 50 yards could be too small a distance to deploy it.>>

Can I accurately deploy a rifle at 50 yds? Sure, done it several times. And a lot more accurately than a handgun. Especially when hunting. There are no shooting benches out in the field, so you learn to shoot without a rest.
When I was talking about the difficulty in deploying the rifle when in your scenario the bear charges from 50 yds away, I wasn't referring to aiming. I was rather thinking about the time it takes for someone to turn around, un-sling the rifle from the shoulder and line it up to aim at the threat. I mean I know that this clip is Hollywood, but it is very well done: Revenant, bear charge
In my opinion a hip holstered pistol would give you quicker access and would allow you to defend yourself even WHILE being attacked.

I think that the pistol is a more useful defense tool if you are ambushed, but sure, use the rifle if you can.


2)
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Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
Yes, I've read about people getting jumped while field dressing game, but if were a common thing it would be written about more. If I'm hunting, that rifle is carried with a round in the chamber. In fact, unless I'm just out to shoot a Bambi, the rifle is ready at all times, even if I just shot my deer. I unload it when I get back to camp or the vehicle.

Now if you're camping and you want a sidearm, sure, go ahead and carry. If I'm hunting with a rifle in hand, I'm not carrying around an extra 3-4 pounds of handgun I would have to set my rifle down to use. I'll carry another 20 rounds of ammo for the same weight, just in case I get mass frontal attacked by tactical varmints.
AFAIK most hunting rifles are not drop safe. You should not go about your day doing stuff in the oudoors, climbing, walking, collecting wood etc with a chambered rifle slung over your shoulder, it is an accident waiting to happen.
I had a accidental discharge with a Savage rifle that had a round in the chamber and the safety engaged, when as I proceeded to sit down on a rock I un-slung the rifle from my shoulder: when holding the rifle by its forestock and as I set its butt on that same rock pointing skywards, it went off.

Also, you do not need to set down your shoulder slung rifle to deploy your pistol!

But anyway since your OP asked <<Will your deer rifle help you in a pinch in case a bear attacks you? >> my humble answer is that YES, it will most definitely help you, but if the attack catches you by surprise it could be difficult or impossible to deploy.
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Old May 26, 2021, 08:49 PM   #29
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Pistolero : We agree that its a bad idea to carry a slung rifle with a round in the chamber.
But when I'm hunting,I carry my rifle in my hands.

And,FWIW, I'm pretty careful about setting up my rifle for fit. When I shoulder the rifle,I have my sights.

Imagine hunting pheasants with the shotgun slung and an empty chamber!!

IMO,carrying a rifle is not so different.
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Old May 27, 2021, 03:09 PM   #30
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I mean I know that this clip is Hollywood, but it is very well done: Revenant, bear charge
Yeah, well, like you said, Hollywood. In real life you don't get several re-takes, and there is no CGI. While I have not had to defend myself from a bear charge, I hunted wild pigs in thick brush for a number of years, and shot several when they ran from extremely close range. You can deploy a rifle as fast as a handgun. Of course, I am not a quick-draw artist.
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In my opinion a hip holstered pistol would give you quicker access and would allow you to defend yourself even WHILE being attacked.
A hip-holstered pistol is underneath a shoulder-slung rifle's butt when walking or climbing. When hunting, I carry my rifle in my hands (if I'm carrying a revolver it's in a cross-draw holster). The main reason I shoulder carry a rifle is if I'm glassing. In thick brush there is no need to use binos, you can't see anything, so I would have the rifle in my hands. If you do get attacked, your hands are going to be pretty busy.

Just for g&g, let's assume you are carrying a hip holstered pistol and a rifle. Your rifle is in the way of the handgun, so you have to drop or set down the rifle in order to deploy your handgun. A bear can cover 50 yds in about 2 seconds or less. Next time you're out shooting somewhere other than the range, try it. Slung rifle, handgun in a hip holster, drop the rifle, draw and shoot in less than 2 seconds.
Quote:
AFAIK most hunting rifles are not drop safe.
Many, many rifles are drop safe. I hunt with a Mauser 98, definitely drop safe. A Savage, not so much, things are held in place with springs. Mauser 98 safety blocks the firing pin, not going off with the firing pin captured.

But hey, you do it any way you like, I'm just telling you about my experience.
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Old May 27, 2021, 04:20 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
When hunting, I carry my rifle in my hands
Whoa. All the time. For how many hours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
Just for g&g, let's assume you are carrying a hip holstered pistol and a rifle. Your rifle is in the way of the handgun, so you have to drop or set down the rifle in order to deploy your handgun. [...] try it. Slung rifle, handgun in a hip holster, drop the rifle, draw and shoot in less than 2 seconds.
Ok here, rifle slung on either side, the rifle is not in the way of my handgun and I don't need to set it down to deploy the pistol quickly:



I didn't want to draw and shoot, but I wouldn't need to put the rifle down.
You are going to say that this is in summer clothes, but it would be the same in winter, the garments I use are such that the pistol is "open carried". And if I ever hunted in temperatures way below freezing (which I don't) I also have a thigh holster. Please don't ask me to prove it with another picture, my wife is already thinking that I lost my mind.

Besides when afield hiking to my hunting spot, the rifle is carried in the backpack. Like this:

(That is not me by the way)

Anyway I don't stay in one place when I hunt (I don't do tree stands or blinds), and I don't have my rifle in my hands, loaded and at the ready all the time. The way I carry my rifle, in the unlikely event of a surprise bear charge I would be quicker with my pistol.

So my answer to the OP is that a hunting rifle definitely can do the job of stopping a charging bear, but depending on what you are doing when the bear charges (i.e. collecting firewood) and how you carry your rifle, it may be difficult to bring it to use. At least for me.

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But hey, you do it any way you like, I'm just telling you about my experience.
I know, and I appreciate that, I'm doing the same thing.
.
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Old May 27, 2021, 06:38 PM   #32
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Pistolero, I've lived in Colorado since 1966. I've been on just a few elk,deer,and antelope hunts. Rabbits,pheasants,etc,too.

There is walking,and there is hunting. If I'm hunting,my rifle is in my hands.
And while I might sit a stand quietly ,I also still hunt ...move slowly,quietly,look and listen a lot.

If I'm just diddy bopping in the woods.I can take a break from hunting and sling my rifle.Or if I'm packing meat.(Age has probably ended that,however!)

Actually,a sling has another use besides carry strap. Properly used,it helps you place a shot.

If my rifle is slung,I might be in the woods on my way someplace,but I'm not hunting.

I'm not a Veteran,but,except for having an enemy who wants to kill you, hunting is like being point man.
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Old May 27, 2021, 06:56 PM   #33
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We might be neighbors, HiBC : )

I wonder if anybody in this forum is also a member of the Buffalo Creek Gun Club, we probably have the most beautiful shooting range in the whole US, out in Pike National Forest near Bailey.

But lets keep it a secret before everybody and their cousin in Denver learns about it and starts coming up here.


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Old May 27, 2021, 08:42 PM   #34
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I'm north of you a ways.
No disrespect to you,or where you live,but I go years between trips south of about Loveland or Greeley

Thats getting closer to Denver and Boulder.

That is a beautiful range.
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Old May 27, 2021, 09:29 PM   #35
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A Grizzly closes at 30mph, so one shot. 250 and 270 may kill the bear, but not until you're dead. My rule is if I hunt anywhere that I could be eaten, a 450 Bushmaster with 300gr Deep Curls and I always carry my Ruger 45 Colt with 285gr SWC.
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Old May 27, 2021, 10:25 PM   #36
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PisolerO, not sure how long you lived in Co but lot of history

Welcome to the Camp Fickes Shooting Range
in Bailey, Colorado
Home of the Buffalo Creek Gun Club
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Old May 27, 2021, 10:45 PM   #37
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PisolerO, not sure how long you lived in Co but lot of history

Welcome to the Camp Fickes Shooting Range
in Bailey, Colorado
Home of the Buffalo Creek Gun Club
Aaha!

Old Roper, in CO since 1988. I came here from faaaar abroad chasing a skirt.
Never left.
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Old May 28, 2021, 01:54 AM   #38
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my wife is already thinking that I lost my mind.
Yep, my wife is absolutely sure I have.
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All the time. For how many hours?
My last hunt was 7 hours straight before takiing a lunch break (6am-1pm). Yes, I often stop to glass or grab a drink or a snack, so my arms get a break every so often. I can carry a 8 lbs rifle a long time. If my hand gets tired, I can switch hands.
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Besides when afield hiking to my hunting spot, the rifle is carried in the backpack. Like this:
I've seen people carry rifles like that, but that would be somewhat slow and involve a lot of movement to get into action if you spot game. There was a system sold many years ago that used velcro straps to strap the rifle to the pack. Only slightly faster to get into action. Very European carry method, the rifle stays out of the way until you get to a stand or the guide tells you to shoot.
Quote:
Ok here, rifle slung on either side, the rifle is not in the way of my handgun and I don't need to set it down to deploy the pistol quickly:
That's not shoulder slung, that is chest or back slung. I would never carry a rifle like that unless I was dragging an animal. Again, the rifle would be very slow to get into action. Try slinging it over your right shoulder and see how it feels.

I'm not knocking your ideas, just commenting. I hunt very lean, I carry nothing I will not use. A fanny pack with ammo, knives, para cord, GPS, snacks, water. If I am goinjg a long ways or just covering ground, I may carry a rucksack with shelter, sleeping bag, etc. When hunting, I know for a fact I will use my rifle. A handgun? Not so sure. I have carried a handgun backpacking and hiking, just seems redundant when you are better armed to have to carry a short-range weapon. But if it works for you, go for it.
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Old May 28, 2021, 10:47 AM   #39
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I would point out that while we use the same word, there is a significant difference between carrying a rifle and a handgun.

You carry your deer rifle, in your hands, or on a strap when slung. Generally its 7+lbs and over a meter long, and gets set down at every convenient opportunity.

You wear a pistol. In some kind of holster, and it stays on your person (and so within reach) at nearly all times. IT's there for all those times when your rifle is out of reach.
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Old May 28, 2021, 11:59 AM   #40
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I would suggest that the deer rifle is not only a good choice but the best choice, assuming it is within rapid reach at the time of the attack.


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Old May 28, 2021, 12:20 PM   #41
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My 30-30 lever gun also has a grenade launcher, just in case.
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Old May 28, 2021, 12:52 PM   #42
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that is chest or back slung. I would never carry a rifle like that unless I was dragging an animal.
That's when da big bear ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ gets ya.
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Old May 28, 2021, 12:59 PM   #43
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You carry your deer rifle, in your hands, or on a strap when slung. Generally its 7+lbs and over a meter long, and gets set down at every convenient opportunity.

You wear a pistol. In some kind of holster, and it stays on your person (and so within reach) at nearly all times. IT's there for all those times when your rifle is out of reach.
^^^
This
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Old May 28, 2021, 04:11 PM   #44
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Yup, and even if they like your shirt that's no guarantee. I had a buddy who got treed by a bull while he was deer hunting. Maybe he could have shot in self-defense. But climbing a tree is a lot easier than the conversation with a Game Warden would have been.
Worked building house's in Alaska a few years and we used to have moose wander into the building site now and then. We didn't mess with them and they were about as aggressive as a dairy cow. Unless, and you knew that was coming, the rut was on! Then the rules changed. Easiest way to stay out of trouble with a wild animal is keep in mind they are wild animals!
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Old May 28, 2021, 05:06 PM   #45
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All interesting. Never could figure out why someone would draw a handgun instead of using the rifle. of course if the bear is on you, handgun will be a lot more maneuverable. Those photo's of carrying a slung rifle leave something to be desired for me. While stationed in Germany I learned what they call the Jaeger carry. I'm right handed and I sling my rifle over my left shoulder. When I have it there which is about all the time I am walking, my left hand has a hold of the forearm. Need the rifle quickly simply turn it up into shooting position. I find it the fastest way to mount a rifle. Sling slide's off the shoulder and gun just come's up.

came back from Germany in 1970 and stationed at Lakeside, Montana, remote radar station. Not long after I got there I was out on the north side of Flathead Lake fooling around and got to thinking about bears, got pretty spooky. So got out of there and next time I went I took a 338 mag with me. That should stop a deer! I spent four years there and been into country all around Kalispell and have never seen a grizzly! Saw tons of black bears though. Something I did start doing up there when walking in cover was I kept track of the country all around me, even behind me. In the end it never saved me from the grizzly I never saw but I was always aware of what was around me. Now I don't know if that approach would save me from a bear attack but I like to think it would certainly help!

Living in Alaska years ago I was out fishing on the Portage River. Standing out there on a gravel bar and saw an absolutely huge bear foot print, I doubt it was a black! Always carried a rifle with me after that designed to stop an attack if I could. It was a Rem 660 in 308. Beauty of the rifle was it had a short barrel and swung quickly and I had it loaded with reasonably hot 200gr Spire Point bullet's. A 100 yd shot would have been to far to shoot that at an animal, lost velocity to quickly but I had no intention of taking a shot to far off. It was for close range protection only. Folks up there had a feeling I think works about carrying a hand gun. If your carrying a 44 mag, shoot your buddy in the foot and run like hell! They just didn't have a lot of confidence in handguns. For myself, I carry a handgun about every where I go, even to the store! But fact of the matter is if the target is more than maybe 20' away, it's relatively safe from me. I'm not that great with a handgun but like fooling with them. Most people fall into that category and should think about that in advance of deploying a gun to protect themselves against man or animal. Your best shot is not going to be out around 50yds. Actually I strongly suspect most attacks begin closer than that but if the aggressor is seen that far off, I'd be ready. yea talk to the bear hoping it will leave. Talk to it while aiming a rifle at it!
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Old May 28, 2021, 06:33 PM   #46
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That's when da big bear ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ gets ya.
Well, if you haven't figured it out by now, I am not afraid of bears. Or wolves, or mountain lions, or coyotes, or snakes, or Sasquatch, or sidehill gougers. Pretty much not afraid of just about anything anymore. People, a little bit, mostly the stupid ones. You want to know what I'm more afraid of than anything else? Getting injured bad enough that I can't get back to my rig and dying of exposure is about it. I've almost died several times of environmental conditions (once I nearly died of hypothermia trying to get my truck unstuck in freezing temps, another time I almost died of dehydration while hunting in So Cal along the Colorado river). I've been hunting all over the West and Southwest and Pacific Northwest for the past 45 years. So if that big bear wants me, tell him where I am.
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Old May 29, 2021, 11:50 PM   #47
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I was on a guided salmon fishing trip in Alaska a few years ago. The guide had been mauled by a bear and I asked "why didn't you shoot it" He said it happened so fast that he never had a chance to get his gun in play.
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Old June 24, 2021, 07:26 PM   #48
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The largest bear recorded killed in Alaska was with a .22 rifle by an Indian woman. So.........Armed with any rifle capable of killing a deer. It's moot point.
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Old June 24, 2021, 08:43 PM   #49
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Quote:
Keep in mind that people with hunting rifles often get mauled when they have to put the rifle down for whatever reason (most often field dressing an animal). In addition, hunting rifles are/should be carried WITHOUT a round in the chamber (when there is no shooting opportunity) which adds time to their use for self defense.
People don't get "often" mauled - period. Bear attacks are not an often activity.

How you feel your hunting rifle should be carried is on you. As far as I am concerned, an unloaded rifle is nothing but a club.
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Old June 24, 2021, 08:50 PM   #50
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The largest bear recorded killed in Alaska was with a .22 rifle by an Indian woman. So.........Armed with any rifle capable of killing a deer. It's moot point.
NOT the largest bear killed in Alaska, but was a record grizzly at the time (1953). It was essentially sniped from a few feet away. She wasn't exactly in a fight for her life. She wasn't being charged. https://www.ammoland.com/2014/11/wha...izzly-in-1953/

Larry Fitzgerald now holds the largest Alaska grizzly kill record, IIRC.
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