45 acp high primers

josh29j · February 28, 2016, 04:52 PM

Should I worry about .oo1 or .oo2. I am getting some high primers only on win brass.. I measured the pocket depth and the are shallow compared to the data I found online. I am on a lnl ap press would hate to uniformer all that brass thanks

cryogenic419 · February 28, 2016, 05:18 PM

Try sticking a dime underneath the primer seating plug, put the loaded ammo back on the press and use only the primer seating station, don't put any dies into the press.. Go through all the high primers and try to seat them just a hair more. If that fixed the issue, find something small, thin, metallic and durable to super glue into place. If it didn't you may want to uniform the pockets.

I don't care what Hornady says about their primer seating system being mathematically correct, the design is lacking. The original seater plug starts to divot the press and eventually it will not seat to the correct depth. They need to put a foot on the seater plug or a steel insert in the press to stop that from happening.

polyphemus · February 28, 2016, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Should I worry about .oo1 or .oo2. I am getting some high primers only on win brass..

You should not load cartridges with high primers.
Whatever is causing that issue needs to be resolved,you say you measured the
pockets,how did you do that?
Only on Win. brass? ok then,don't use them problem solved.
And if you want to use them anyway rework the pockets and don't buy those again.

rclark · February 28, 2016, 09:16 PM

As long as the primer is at/below the face of the base, your fine. They should 'NOT' be above however. As said above correct it before going any further. I use a hand primer, so can't help with your system. I've never experienced high primers BTW.

William T. Watts · February 28, 2016, 09:39 PM

Uniform the primer pocket, I use a lyman primer pocket tool in a small drill motor, fast plus it squares up the primer pocket! Every primer pocket is the same depth, no more primer problem!! William

Longshot4 · February 29, 2016, 09:38 AM

If you just purchase a quality uniformer you will not see the problem again with those cases. The problem will come up again with other cases. A large and small uniformer purchase will rid you of the problem for ever. It's the way to go.

josh29j · February 29, 2016, 10:05 AM

I have a uniformer and I uniformed them when I was using a single stage. But I have a progressive now. The progressive is a little less progressive now

**Unclenick** · February 29, 2016, 10:29 AM

Josh,

Primers normally require a little bit of crush. This is called setting the bridge by primer makers and "reconsolidating" the primer by the military. The idea is that the primer anvil comes a little tall and when you seat the primer it should squeeze the anvil into the primer by about two to four thousandths of an inch.

It is common on progressive presses for the the primer to seat when the press handle is at low mechanical advantage. This is to let you "feel" the firmness of the primer seating effort. The problem is that some primers have burrs and are harder to seat than others, so you can think they are seated when they are not. I have this problem on my Dillon Square Deal. Also, some cases have crimped primers, and if the crimps are not either cut or swaged out, then primers can fail to seat fully.

What you want to do is gently measure the height of a dozen of your primers to get an average reading. Then do the same with the depth of your primer pockets. Be carfull making this measurement as it is easy to get too short a number off a caliper depth probe. Usually you get a better result by measuring a small pin that fits into the primer pocket, but not too loosely, then the case length, then putting the pin in the pocket and measuring the combined length and subtracting it from the sum of the pin and case lengths. This gives you a pocket depth. If four thousandths smaller than the primer height is greater than the primer pocket depth, then pocket depth uniforming is in order. If it is, you are likely just not pushing the primer in firmly enough and need to solve that mechanical problem. Swaging or reaming the pockets, even when there is no crimp, often makes primers seat more easily.

F. Guffey · February 29, 2016, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Should I worry about?

I do not worry, I respect. If you load ammo for a slide type gun I suggest you never chamber a round with a high primer. There are shell holders that protect the reloader from himself. Some shell holders do not have a primer cut in the deck of the shell holder. The absence of the primer cut prevents the reloader from removing a case from the shell holder with a high primer.

Then there are inertia hammers for pulling bullets. Never pull a bullet from a case with a high primer. Because; there is a chance of the trickle down effect; If the hammer seats the primer and powder has trickled down between the bottom of the primer pocket and primer there is no room for the primer to move forward when seating. Same thing when the slide chambers the round on a case with a primer that is not seated and or one that protrudes.

F. Guffey

**Unclenick** · February 29, 2016, 11:06 AM

I should have thought to address that, too. I'll simply reiterate that high primers in a self-loader are a bad thing. They make feeding less reliable, raise the possibility of a slamfire, or cause failures to fire because the firing pin energy is used up completing seating the primer. In addition, ignition from improperly seated primers that do fire is erratic and you will get more velocity variation and more variation in the time it takes to get the bullet out of the barrel due to that slow ignition. This has the same effect as variable lock time.

mikld · February 29, 2016, 01:48 PM

Yeah I agree, "high" primers ain't a good thing. As Uncle Nick mentions, you'll prolly get a lot of misfires due to the firing pin's first impact will seat the primer completely. While I'm not afraid of many (any?) reloading practices, I doubt I'd try seating loaded round's primers deeper...

Reforming primer pockets is just a part of reloading a mass produced case (where there may be some over/under tolerance) and if you find it necessary, just do it or put the offending brass away somewhere and fix it later. In my reloading experience I've not found any shallow primer pockets in any of the 12 cartridges I reload, both foreign and domestic.

Using large rifle primers in .45 ACP will result in "high" primers because they are taller than large pistol primers. Are you sure you're stuffing large pistol primers in a large pistol primed cartridge?

buck460XVR · February 29, 2016, 02:10 PM

Quote:

I should have thought to address that, too. I'll simply reiterate that high primers in a self-loader are a bad thing. They make feeding less reliable, raise the possibility of a slamfire, or cause failures to fire because the firing pin energy is used up completing seating the primer. In addition, ignition from improperly seated primers that do fire is erratic and you will get more velocity variation and more variation in the time it takes to get the bullet out of the barrel due to that slow ignition. This has the same effect as variable lock time.

You can get the same negative effect from high primers in revolvers too. They can lockup the cylinder and cause failure to fire also.

Slamfire · February 29, 2016, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Should I worry about .oo1 or .oo2. I am getting some high primers only on win brass.. I measured the pocket depth and the are shallow compared to the data I found online. I am on a lnl ap press would hate to uniformer all that brass thanks

Ream the shallow pockets to depth. If the pockets are shallow enough that the anvils are firmly seated, and the primer cup shoved down so the gap between anvil and primer is properly set, and the primer is above the case head, you have created the perfect conditions for a slamfire. The primer must be below the case head.

josh29j · February 29, 2016, 08:23 PM

I measured some. .114 for win brass. And 118 on average for remingtion brass..I uniformed them

chris in va · February 29, 2016, 09:44 PM

There's something wrong with Winchester brass lately. Every few dozen mixed cases I find a Win with a case head so out of spec it won't fit in my shellholder.

josh29j · March 1, 2016, 05:02 AM

I have noticed that as well I have had a few so far that would not slide into my shell plate

F. Guffey · March 1, 2016, 04:28 PM

That is the reason I always have a gasket cutting ball peen hammer close. I was asked by a reloader to help him form 450 Wildcat cases for him. It was more about showing him it could be done but etc.. Anyhow; he asked me to bring the 'other' #4 shell holder. I showed up with the gasket cutting ball peen hammer, the gasket cutting ball peen hammer is more case friendly than my 8lb. ball peen shop hammers.

He had 40 belted magnum cases that would not fit the #4 RCBS shell holder because the cases had been hammered with a heavy loads. I showed him the cases could be sized, I did suggest he not use the cases but if he was desperate .

F. Guffey

February 28, 2016, 04:52 PM	#1
josh29j Member Join Date: December 28, 2014 Posts: 63	45 acp high primers Should I worry about .oo1 or .oo2. I am getting some high primers only on win brass.. I measured the pocket depth and the are shallow compared to the data I found online. I am on a lnl ap press would hate to uniformer all that brass thanks

February 29, 2016, 10:29 AM	#8
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Josh, Primers normally require a little bit of crush. This is called setting the bridge by primer makers and "reconsolidating" the primer by the military. The idea is that the primer anvil comes a little tall and when you seat the primer it should squeeze the anvil into the primer by about two to four thousandths of an inch. It is common on progressive presses for the the primer to seat when the press handle is at low mechanical advantage. This is to let you "feel" the firmness of the primer seating effort. The problem is that some primers have burrs and are harder to seat than others, so you can think they are seated when they are not. I have this problem on my Dillon Square Deal. Also, some cases have crimped primers, and if the crimps are not either cut or swaged out, then primers can fail to seat fully. What you want to do is gently measure the height of a dozen of your primers to get an average reading. Then do the same with the depth of your primer pockets. Be carfull making this measurement as it is easy to get too short a number off a caliper depth probe. Usually you get a better result by measuring a small pin that fits into the primer pocket, but not too loosely, then the case length, then putting the pin in the pocket and measuring the combined length and subtracting it from the sum of the pin and case lengths. This gives you a pocket depth. If four thousandths smaller than the primer height is greater than the primer pocket depth, then pocket depth uniforming is in order. If it is, you are likely just not pushing the primer in firmly enough and need to solve that mechanical problem. Swaging or reaming the pockets, even when there is no crimp, often makes primers seat more easily. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 29, 2016, 11:06 AM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I should have thought to address that, too. I'll simply reiterate that high primers in a self-loader are a bad thing. They make feeding less reliable, raise the possibility of a slamfire, or cause failures to fire because the firing pin energy is used up completing seating the primer. In addition, ignition from improperly seated primers that do fire is erratic and you will get more velocity variation and more variation in the time it takes to get the bullet out of the barrel due to that slow ignition. This has the same effect as variable lock time. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 29, 2016, 01:48 PM	#11
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Yeah I agree, "high" primers ain't a good thing. As Uncle Nick mentions, you'll prolly get a lot of misfires due to the firing pin's first impact will seat the primer completely. While I'm not afraid of many (any?) reloading practices, I doubt I'd try seating loaded round's primers deeper... Reforming primer pockets is just a part of reloading a mass produced case (where there may be some over/under tolerance) and if you find it necessary, just do it or put the offending brass away somewhere and fix it later. In my reloading experience I've not found any shallow primer pockets in any of the 12 cartridges I reload, both foreign and domestic. Using large rifle primers in .45 ACP will result in "high" primers because they are taller than large pistol primers. Are you sure you're stuffing large pistol primers in a large pistol primed cartridge? __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

March 1, 2016, 05:02 AM	#16
josh29j Member Join Date: December 28, 2014 Posts: 63	I have noticed that as well I have had a few so far that would not slide into my shell plate Last edited by josh29j; March 1, 2016 at 12:30 PM.

February 28, 2016, 05:18 PM	#2
cryogenic419 Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 569	Try sticking a dime underneath the primer seating plug, put the loaded ammo back on the press and use only the primer seating station, don't put any dies into the press.. Go through all the high primers and try to seat them just a hair more. If that fixed the issue, find something small, thin, metallic and durable to super glue into place. If it didn't you may want to uniform the pockets. I don't care what Hornady says about their primer seating system being mathematically correct, the design is lacking. The original seater plug starts to divot the press and eventually it will not seat to the correct depth. They need to put a foot on the seater plug or a steel insert in the press to stop that from happening.

February 28, 2016, 09:16 PM	#4
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,622	As long as the primer is at/below the face of the base, your fine. They should 'NOT' be above however. As said above correct it before going any further. I use a hand primer, so can't help with your system. I've never experienced high primers BTW. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king. Last edited by rclark; February 29, 2016 at 02:46 PM.

February 28, 2016, 09:39 PM	#5
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	Uniform the primer pocket, I use a lyman primer pocket tool in a small drill motor, fast plus it squares up the primer pocket! Every primer pocket is the same depth, no more primer problem!! William

February 29, 2016, 09:38 AM	#6
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	If you just purchase a quality uniformer you will not see the problem again with those cases. The problem will come up again with other cases. A large and small uniformer purchase will rid you of the problem for ever. It's the way to go.

February 29, 2016, 10:05 AM	#7
josh29j Member Join Date: December 28, 2014 Posts: 63	I have a uniformer and I uniformed them when I was using a single stage. But I have a progressive now. The progressive is a little less progressive now

February 29, 2016, 08:23 PM	#14
josh29j Member Join Date: December 28, 2014 Posts: 63	I measured some. .114 for win brass. And 118 on average for remingtion brass..I uniformed them

February 29, 2016, 09:44 PM	#15
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	There's something wrong with Winchester brass lately. Every few dozen mixed cases I find a Win with a case head so out of spec it won't fit in my shellholder.

March 1, 2016, 04:28 PM	#17
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	That is the reason I always have a gasket cutting ball peen hammer close. I was asked by a reloader to help him form 450 Wildcat cases for him. It was more about showing him it could be done but etc.. Anyhow; he asked me to bring the 'other' #4 shell holder. I showed up with the gasket cutting ball peen hammer, the gasket cutting ball peen hammer is more case friendly than my 8lb. ball peen shop hammers. He had 40 belted magnum cases that would not fit the #4 RCBS shell holder because the cases had been hammered with a heavy loads. I showed him the cases could be sized, I did suggest he not use the cases but if he was desperate . F. Guffey