Clerk must possess FOID card?

Prof Young · July 24, 2021, 10:45 AM

Was at Wallyworld yesterday and was able to buy Federal 22LR, the 325 box, for $18.73 or just under six cents a round. Not too bad and they were allowing three boxes at a time.

The clerk at the counter was from the auto department, and told me she'd find me a clerk with a FOID card so I could buy the ammo. Said she could get fired if she sold it to me. Hmmmmm . . . .

I've bought a lot of ammo at WM and never heard this before, but all previous clerks may have been FOID card holders.

Is that IL law or WM policy?

Life is good.
Prof Young

**44 AMP** · July 24, 2021, 11:40 AM

Not being really familiar with the laws in your state, I will not state with certainty that it is not a state law.

In this case, what I believe you are seeing is WalMart policy, not any actual law. And, the FOIDcard requirement might only be the policy at that specific store.

What I do know for sure is that for many years now, not all WalMart associates are allowed to work in all depts. Sporting goods (guns & ammo) in particular.

The employees who work Walmart sporting goods are required to be specially trained, They are required to know not just Fed and State laws that apply, but also Walmart policies and rules.

Often there will be only one or two clerks in the store that have that training. Walmart very well could (and likely would) fire someone who broke their rules about this.

You and I see only "hey, its just some.22LR ammo", but Walmart doesn't see it like that. What they see is an un/undertrained WALMART employee breaking store rules, and possibly laws, allowing "dangerous materials" to be sold which could leave Walmart legally liable. And, they rilly,rilly don't like being legally liable...

In over 30 years of weekly ( mostly grocery) shopping at Walmart I have never bought a gun from them (and, I won't) and the only ammo I ever bought from them was a few boxes of .410 slugs, because they had it on the shelf, and no one else local did...

Like Disney after Walt died, Walmart after Sam's passing has become something different from the dream of its founder. Not as "nice" an experience and lately, full of crap...

Mike38 · July 24, 2021, 05:26 PM

I am here in Illinois. I used to buy a lot of ammo from Walmart (buy on line only now) and never ran across this situation. The only thing I can think of is a non-FOID holder picks up a box of ammo, that could be considered "possession" of the ammo, even if only for a few seconds? Possession of ammo without a FOID card is illegal in Illinois.

possession
[pəˈzeSHən]
NOUN
the state of having, owning, or controlling something.

So if the clerk has control of the ammo, even for only a few seconds, could that be considered possession? Maybe?

BCR1 · July 26, 2021, 04:06 AM

Just another reason to avoid the cesspool of lincoln.

Bill

Onward Allusion · July 26, 2021, 10:06 AM

Being in this non-free State, I can tell ya that the clerk was correct at least on a technical level. If one does not have a FOID card, one can't handle guns or ammo on their own in IL. Also, our FFL holders must have video surveillance both inside and outside of their place of business, including the parking lots.

USAFNoDak · July 27, 2021, 01:37 PM

That is one reason the State of IL is so free from violent crime. The criminals can't get ammo because they don't have FOID cards. Genius.

shurshot · July 27, 2021, 02:24 PM

"That is one reason the State of IL is so free from violent crime. The criminals can't get ammo because they don't have FOID cards. Genius."

Spit out my coffee!!!

**44 AMP** · July 27, 2021, 02:35 PM

we have the smiley faces for a reason, using them protects keyboards!!

I would also point out that, legally, convicted felons (prohibited persons) are not required to have FOID cards!

Pahoo · July 27, 2021, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Is that IL law or WM policy?

Yes, it's an Illinois thing and folks over there are still trying to figure it out.

Example;
I live in Iowa and a couple of years ago, we were traveling though Urbana and stopped for a sandwich. Next door was a store that sold ammo. They had the .22 locked in with a sign that said "only a limit of two boxes, allowed". I told a clerk that I wanted two boxes and he went to get a clerk that had access to the safe and an FOID card. I asked him if I could buy this ammo as I was from Iowa and did not have an FOID card. He said no problem and tell the clerk up front that it was okay. Well it was not okay with the clerk and she had to check with the manager. After about five minutes the clerk came back and said the manager said it was okay and checked me out. ......

Be Safe !!!

**44 AMP** · July 28, 2021, 03:23 AM

Quote:

I asked him if I could buy this ammo as I was from Iowa and did not have an FOID card.

This sort of thing comes up anywhere there is some kind of permit/ID card system and what is and isn't allowed depends on how the law is worded.

If the law says something like "no one in the state may possess ammo without the card" that's one thing and if its says "state residents are required to have the card to possess ammo" that is something slightly different.

**Spats McGee** · July 28, 2021, 05:56 AM

This is the chilling effect of such laws in action.

Lima Oscar 7 · August 28, 2021, 11:09 AM

My FOID card was ratified on June 21, 1788. I live in a Constitutional Carry State. I know not of this tyranny you speak of. I love IL sans Chicago. I wish the rest of the state would secede from it. Some of the finest people on the planet and great hunting too!

langenc · September 5, 2021, 12:23 PM

Not being really familiar with the laws in your state, I will not state with certainty that it is not a state law.

In this case, what I believe you are seeing is WalMart policy, not any actual law. And, the FOIDcard requirement might only be the policy at that specific store.

What I do know for sure is that for many years now, not all WalMart associates are allowed to work in all depts. Sporting goods (guns & ammo) in particular.

The employees who work Walmart sporting goods are required to be specially trained, They are required to know not just Fed and State laws that apply, but also Walmart policies and rules.

Often there will be only one or two clerks in the store that have that training. Walmart very well could (and likely would) fire someone who broke their rules about this.

You and I see only "hey, its just some.22LR ammo", but Walmart doesn't see it like that. What they see is an un/undertrained WALMART employee breaking store rules, and possibly laws, allowing "dangerous materials" to be sold which could leave Walmart legally liable. And, they rilly,rilly don't like being legally liable...

In over 30 years of weekly ( mostly grocery) shopping at Walmart I have never bought a gun from them (and, I won't) and the only ammo I ever bought from them was a few boxes of .410 slugs, because they had it on the shelf, and no one else local did...

Like Disney after Walt died, Walmart after Sam's passing has become something different from the dream of its founder. Not as "nice" an experience and lately, full of crap...
Copied from #4, I think t was...

Wonder how they handle liquor/beer sales?? That stuff is 'dangerous' for sure.

DaleA · September 6, 2021, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Wonder how they handle liquor/beer sales??

Welp, this jogged my memory to a Minnesota gas station event from years ago.

After filling up the truck I was also buying a 6-pack of 3.2 beer at a gas station. The young girl behind the cash register (it was a real cash register...that's how old this story is) rang up the dollars and cents amount for the beer and then stepped back and yelled "beer sale". An older guy in the store stepped over and hit the big "sale" button on the cash register and the drawer popped open and she completed the sale. "I can ring the price of the beer up," she said, "but according to state law I'm too young to sell it so Dan has to hit the sale button on the till."

Since this is a personal rememberance it Really Happened.

KyJim · September 6, 2021, 01:02 PM

DaleA --- My state has a similar law and I've seen cashiers have to call in someone else to sell the beer (and cigarettes).

July 24, 2021, 10:45 AM	#1
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,403	Clerk must possess FOID card? Was at Wallyworld yesterday and was able to buy Federal 22LR, the 325 box, for $18.73 or just under six cents a round. Not too bad and they were allowing three boxes at a time. The clerk at the counter was from the auto department, and told me she'd find me a clerk with a FOID card so I could buy the ammo. Said she could get fired if she sold it to me. Hmmmmm . . . . I've bought a lot of ammo at WM and never heard this before, but all previous clerks may have been FOID card holders. Is that IL law or WM policy? Life is good. Prof Young

July 24, 2021, 11:40 AM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	Not being really familiar with the laws in your state, I will not state with certainty that it is not a state law. In this case, what I believe you are seeing is WalMart policy, not any actual law. And, the FOIDcard requirement might only be the policy at that specific store. What I do know for sure is that for many years now, not all WalMart associates are allowed to work in all depts. Sporting goods (guns & ammo) in particular. The employees who work Walmart sporting goods are required to be specially trained, They are required to know not just Fed and State laws that apply, but also Walmart policies and rules. Often there will be only one or two clerks in the store that have that training. Walmart very well could (and likely would) fire someone who broke their rules about this. You and I see only "hey, its just some.22LR ammo", but Walmart doesn't see it like that. What they see is an un/undertrained WALMART employee breaking store rules, and possibly laws, allowing "dangerous materials" to be sold which could leave Walmart legally liable. And, they rilly,rilly don't like being legally liable... In over 30 years of weekly ( mostly grocery) shopping at Walmart I have never bought a gun from them (and, I won't) and the only ammo I ever bought from them was a few boxes of .410 slugs, because they had it on the shelf, and no one else local did... Like Disney after Walt died, Walmart after Sam's passing has become something different from the dream of its founder. Not as "nice" an experience and lately, full of crap... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 26, 2021, 10:06 AM	#5
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	Being in this non-free State, I can tell ya that the clerk was correct at least on a technical level. If one does not have a FOID card, one can't handle guns or ammo on their own in IL. Also, our FFL holders must have video surveillance both inside and outside of their place of business, including the parking lots. __________________ Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying

July 27, 2021, 01:37 PM	#6
USAFNoDak Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2000 Location: Minnesota, Twin Cities Posts: 1,076	That is one reason the State of IL is so free from violent crime. The criminals can't get ammo because they don't have FOID cards. Genius. __________________ "If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams.

July 27, 2021, 02:35 PM	#8
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	we have the smiley faces for a reason, using them protects keyboards!! I would also point out that, legally, convicted felons (prohibited persons) are not required to have FOID cards! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 24, 2021, 05:26 PM	#3
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	I am here in Illinois. I used to buy a lot of ammo from Walmart (buy on line only now) and never ran across this situation. The only thing I can think of is a non-FOID holder picks up a box of ammo, that could be considered "possession" of the ammo, even if only for a few seconds? Possession of ammo without a FOID card is illegal in Illinois. possession [pəˈzeSHən] NOUN the state of having, owning, or controlling something. So if the clerk has control of the ammo, even for only a few seconds, could that be considered possession? Maybe?

July 26, 2021, 04:06 AM	#4
BCR1 member Join Date: January 25, 2021 Location: Chattanooga Posts: 108	Just another reason to avoid the cesspool of lincoln. Bill

July 27, 2021, 02:24 PM	#7
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	"That is one reason the State of IL is so free from violent crime. The criminals can't get ammo because they don't have FOID cards. Genius." Spit out my coffee!!!

July 28, 2021, 05:56 AM	#11
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	This is the chilling effect of such laws in action. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

August 28, 2021, 11:09 AM	#12
Lima Oscar 7 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2021 Posts: 125	My FOID card was ratified on June 21, 1788. I live in a Constitutional Carry State. I know not of this tyranny you speak of. I love IL sans Chicago. I wish the rest of the state would secede from it. Some of the finest people on the planet and great hunting too! __________________ Disclaimer: All comments or opinions regarding firearms will be carefully worded based upon personal ownership with extensive use and are not intended to offend the reader.

September 5, 2021, 12:23 PM	#13
langenc Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 1,551	Not being really familiar with the laws in your state, I will not state with certainty that it is not a state law. In this case, what I believe you are seeing is WalMart policy, not any actual law. And, the FOIDcard requirement might only be the policy at that specific store. What I do know for sure is that for many years now, not all WalMart associates are allowed to work in all depts. Sporting goods (guns & ammo) in particular. The employees who work Walmart sporting goods are required to be specially trained, They are required to know not just Fed and State laws that apply, but also Walmart policies and rules. Often there will be only one or two clerks in the store that have that training. Walmart very well could (and likely would) fire someone who broke their rules about this. You and I see only "hey, its just some.22LR ammo", but Walmart doesn't see it like that. What they see is an un/undertrained WALMART employee breaking store rules, and possibly laws, allowing "dangerous materials" to be sold which could leave Walmart legally liable. And, they rilly,rilly don't like being legally liable... In over 30 years of weekly ( mostly grocery) shopping at Walmart I have never bought a gun from them (and, I won't) and the only ammo I ever bought from them was a few boxes of .410 slugs, because they had it on the shelf, and no one else local did... Like Disney after Walt died, Walmart after Sam's passing has become something different from the dream of its founder. Not as "nice" an experience and lately, full of crap... Copied from #4, I think t was... Wonder how they handle liquor/beer sales?? That stuff is 'dangerous' for sure.

September 6, 2021, 01:02 PM	#15
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	DaleA --- My state has a similar law and I've seen cashiers have to call in someone else to sell the beer (and cigarettes).