Help a Newbie Lady out? First handgun purchase...

[power5]

92fs. Over 5000 rounds in a row through mine with zero issues. Sits next to my bed because I KNOW it will go bang when needed.

[CWKahrFan]

I find the recent bevy of polymer single-stack 9mm's to be great choices in size/weight/power ratios and just very handy general-purpose guns to own.

So I say peruse Kahr CW9, S&W Shield, Walther PPS, Bersa BP9cc... They're very similar... A great genre...

[TxFlyFish]

Guys, how many people do you see half way proficient with da/sa or a revolver? If all they shoot is sa mode that's not being realistic and truthful to themselves.

[aarondhgraham]

Wow!,,, What an eclectic selection.

All decent guns by any standards,,,
But exactly 120 degrees out of phase with each other.

One is a double-action/single-action semi with a decocker-safety,,,
One is a striker fired semi with no manual safety or decocker,,,
The other is a compact lightweight revolver.

I suggest you don't even think of a brand or style of gun,,,
Until you have held a large number of guns,,,
A gun must fit your hand to be feasible.

In my humble opinion that is the first thing a newbie should do,,,
Find out which types/styles of gun fits your hand.

The Beretta is a wonderful fiery-arm,,,
But if you have small hands it will not fit you,,,
And if the gun doesn't fit your hands you won't gain proficiency.

So hit some gun shops and ask to hold the guns,,,
On semi-automatics see if you can manipulate the controls,,,
Ideally you should be able to eject the magazine, release the slide, and work the safety.

All without shifting your grip very much.

For example, one of the undergrads I have introduced to handguns,,,
She absolutely loves my CZ-75B which is a full size duty gun,,,
It is absolutely the wrong gun for her though.

The frame is simply too large for her hands,,,
She cannot work any of the controls one handed.

When she got serious about buying her own pistol,,,
I tool her to several gun shops that had a large selection,,,
We ignored brand names at first and just tried to find something that "fit".

Once we had a nice list of guns that fit her hand,,,
Then we started breaking down the features,,,
She eventually ended up with a Ruger LC9.

You wouldn't buy a car if you couldn't reach the pedals,,,
Don't make that mistake when choosing a handgun.

We at this forum will help with any questions you have,,,
The knowledge base the members of the forum have is staggering,,,
But don't forget the main thing is the gun has to fit your hand to be the right gun.

Happy hunting.

Aarond

.

[TailGator]

The Beretta 92FS is a beautiful and nicely-made handgun. The gripes people have about it are that the grip is large enough to be uncomfortable for some, and that the first double action trigger pull is different from the second and subsequent single action pulls. People also gripe about the slide-mounted up-to-fire thumb safety, but if you aren't already accustomed to another type it won't feel weird to you.

The Glock is less elegant but very functional. The trigger is consistent, but if you want a thumb safety it isn't there on the Glock. Disciplining yourself to keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire, and to keep the trigger enclosed when it is stored and carried are your only safeties, but they are both necessary and adequate regardless of whether or not a thumb safety is present.

I am not personally familiar with the LCR, but it is not uncommon for revolvers to have a double-action trigger pull that is so heavy that it affects accuracy for some people.

A pistol you didn't mention but that you might like is the Beretta PX4 line. They come with different backstraps to customize the grip size, and they have a rotating barrel system that softens recoil quite noticeably, making them a very easy pistol to shoot well. They have a trigger/safety system quite similar to the 92FS. It might be a pistol you want to handle before making your final decision.

[marine6680]

I don't think I have ever held a semi handgun that I could use ALL the controls without adjusting my grip at least a little.

I could operate the pistol fine, but things like slide stops and mag releases were always just out of reach when holding the pistol in a firing grip. Sometimes I could reach one but not the other, sometimes neither... The mag release being the biggest culprit... Short fingers and thumbs. (Though not so short as to have had trigger reach issues, but I have strength enough in my fingers that make a long reach less an issue than for some)

I don't consider needing to adjust grip a small amount to hit the mag release a big issue, and the slide stop a non issue due to the fact that you do not need to use the slide stop to release the slide on a reload, you can pull the slide back and release.

When I had my XD, I could use the ambi mag release with my trigger finger, and I like the paddle mag releases like those on the old Walthers and current H&Ks for the same reason... But I still don't find a slight adjustment an issue.

Some people with smaller hands must adjust a little, and I don't think that I should dismiss a pistol that feels great on all other accounts for that one issue. I may can compromise with a smaller single stack, but I loose capacity and often times comfort for the smaller size, and unless I need the small size for concealing easier, then I don't want to make the compromise.

I do find the safety on the Beretta 92 a bit of a pain... Due to its location and method of operation. It can be trained for though... And I would only use it for decock only.

[tahunua001]

I can work all the controls with my SR9 without adjusting my grip but I agree that the number of guns that can do this are few and far between.

there's also the fact that what is good for my hands may be just out of reach for someone with small hands or too packed together for someone with extremely large hands.

[axismatt]

It sounds like you intend to train and stay proficient with your choice of guns, so an auto loader would be better than a revolver.

In my experience with women shooters, ergonomics are hugely important. Women generally have smaller or softer hands and grip things less aggressively. When introducing a new female shooter to guns, I really like the LC9 and LCP. Small and light and sleek, all the safety of DA only, and they fit a woman's hand really well.

My $.02

[Madcap_Magician]

Of the three, the only one I cannot recommend is the Ruger LCR.

These are excellent revolvers, but if the gun is primarily for home defense, and it is your first handgun, there's no reason to get a tiny five-shot revolver.

They are primarily for concealed carry. The recoil is extremely stiff, and it is a difficult gun to learn to shoot well.

The Beretta 92 is a fine gun, but I would recommend slightly against it. If you have small hands it is a little difficult to handle due to the circumference of the grip and the reach to the trigger. If it fits you reasonably well, though, it is accurate and very soft shooting, carrying a good number of a reasonably powerful cartridge. However, it is a double action/single action pistol, and it takes a goodly amount of training and practice to learn to manage the two distinctly different trigger pulls in the same gun.

The Glock 19 is an excellent gun and has most of the benefits of the Beretta 92. It has a little more recoil due to its smaller size and weight. Grip is still on the fat side, but the Generation 4 Glocks are a big improvement over the earlier guns in this regard.

I would recommend you also consider the S&W M&P, which has most of the pros of both the Beretta and the Glock as far as shootability and capacity go, but which is also substantially more ergonomically comfortable for a wider range of hand shapes and sizes, due to modifiable backstraps and the gentle swell and rounded shape of the grip.

If you would like to try a revolver, a Ruger GP100 with a three- or four-inch barrel or a comparable Smith and Wesson like a Model 10 or a Model 64, all of which are six-shot, medium-sized, steel-frame revolvers, will be good choices. Trigger pull is heavier than the semiautos, but smoother. Operation is easier, although if you can drive a car, you can shoot a semiauto correctly

Those revolvers will also give you the option to practice with .38 Special target loads, which recoil very softly, and carry heavier .38 Special loads for defense or even go up to powerful .357 magnum loads.

[tomrkba]

Beretta 92FS OR Glock 19 OR Ruger LCR 38 Special??

Confession: Despite growing up in Appalachia, I am just now purchasing my first handgun...

I am looking to purchase my first handgun, mainly to be used in home defense. It will be stored in an under the bed safe, and I will both be taking courses before bringing it home.

Do you have a recommendation between the above? I've spent hours looking online and there is just so much info. Any leads or suggestions will be greatly appreciated!!!!

Thanks so much!

Buy nothing right now unless you have to have it for defense. If that is the case, then the default is a Glock 19 loaded with high quality jacketed hollow point ammunition, Trijicon night sights (standard, not "HD"), and a rail mounted light. You absolutely cannot go wrong with this setup in terms of performance and shooting. You can also easily sell this gun off if you decide you no longer need it.

However, if you have time, I highly recommend you attend the following courses in sequence:

1) NRA Basic Pistol
2) Any defensive handgun course that also qualifies for Virginia concealed handgun permit. The contents of this course should look something like the following (I am using FPF Training; he recently split his courses into one day modules):

http://www.fpftraining.com/classes.html

"Concealed Carry: Foundation Skills" (this is day 1)
"Concealed Carry: Street Encounter Skills" (this is day 2)

(You should then attend "Advanced Concealed Carry Tactics" within three to six months.)

You will know what you *want* and what you *need* in a handgun after going through the courses. For example, you *need* a gun that is easy on the hands. A Glock 19 has all soft edges, unlike my Browning Hi-Power which is covered in razor blades and dried blood from my hands. But, you wouldn't know this until you had a dozen, bleeding slices across all the fingers on your support hand

There is quite a bit to successfully defending yourself that has nothing to do with shooting. Any good defensive course will teach you how to handle the encounter, actions to take immediately after the encounter, talk to the police and what to expect from the justice system.

[tomrkba]

The problems with the Beretta 92 are:

1) Slide mounted safety

The slide mounted safety is a problem. It is easy to deactivate if the gun is holstered by locking the thumb out and achieving the grip. The thumb will flip the safety up. However, it must be consciously flipped up, in a clumsy way, if the gun is not in a holster.

The major problem with the safety, however, is that it tends to be accidentally activated if the shooter runs the gun using the slide. Almost every major trainer in the country teaches pulling back the slide to load the gun over hitting the small slide release. This is because adrenaline affects our coordination by reducing it significantly. It is very easy to miss and the location (and side(s)) vary by gun; the slide is present on all semi-autos and all semi-autos will load when the slide is pulled.

2) Long Length of Pull with heavy double action weight

The grips are large and the LOP is long. This can be a problem for some shooters.

If you decide on a 92, make sure the gun fits your hand and that the double action pull is smooth. The good news is that Beretta tends to make their triggers well; I've had no complaints regarding trigger weight with the ones I have shot.

3) DA/SA

As a long time SIG P-Series advocate, I still dislike the double action/single action system. It takes time and lots of rounds to master. I am not talking about slow fire on the range either, though this certainly requires practice. The real problem comes in when you're going at full speed. Double taps and burst fire require the shooter to remember that the second shot will be short and light. It is very, very easy to forget under pressure and slap the trigger on the next shot. This can result in a miss, which is obviously bad if you do it in public.

[tallball]

Quote: The vast majority of women don't have tiny weak hands.

My wife asked what I was reading, so I showed her this thread. That was her response.

[axismatt]

Quote: The vast majority of women don't have tiny weak hands.

My wife asked what I was reading, so I showed her this thread. That was her response.

Haha, I feel like that may be a response to my post. No offense intended, but that's not what was said. You can't deny that women usually have smaller hands than men. Also, most men have more grip strength than women.

I find it odd that, with shooting sports growing in popularity with women, that the manufacturers don't make a woman's frame in some of the more popular models (especially in the polymer framed models). There just seems to be plenty of room to make the grip more slender without sacrificing strength. And I have smaller hands, so I would be interested in a woman's frame size, even if it was a pretty color.

[Doc mike]

I've handled the baretta in a deployed environment - didn't like it much then and even less now. For one reason too many moving parts. I have the glock 19 as one of my carry pistols - can't say enough how much I like this pistol - 3 moving parts and very reliable. My opinion is glock over beretta every time. Good luck

[HMC8404]

Although my favorite for home defense is a shotgun, I would personally go with the LCR, or any name brand revolver, but only because they have less chance of malfunctioning (statistically) than a semi-auto, and it will always be ready to fire, without relying on racking a slide or moving a safety lever. My 2 cents.

[marine6680]

Some may get the impression that these posts all say women have tiny hands... But that is not the case...

Just having hands smaller than the average sized man's hands can lead to difficulty. This is the reason why most bring up grip size, as the average hand size for women is smaller than the average for a man.

Having larger than average hands can also lead to issues.

That is the reason for the advent of replaceable back straps... to adapt to a wider range of hand sizes.

But as I brought up in a prior post, most give a large emphasis on reaching all the controls without adjusting your grip on the pistol...

I would have to give up a great deal of very nice pistols if I stuck to this reasoning, as I have smaller than average size hands. I can still shoot a Sig P226 well. Some may find the grip large, and they get the E2 grip version.

[tomrkba]

Having larger than average hands can also lead to issues.

This is very true. The Glock 21 Gen 2 (or Gen 4 with largest backstrap) was made for my father's hands. The 21 in his hands looks proportionally like a 1911 in any other shooter's hands. He cannot use a 1911 since "It's too damned tiny!" The Glock 17 barely fits him and he hated it. The G19 didn't even register as something to even try. This is why he likes N-Frame revolvers with giant stocks.

Another friend has super long fingers. He had a Glock 17 that he could barely use; he figured out how to modify his grip so he could at least group it on paper. A G17 Gen 4 would have solved the problem. He ended up with a Glock 20 and it was fine.

[Cosmodragoon]

Excellent advice so far and I have to agree on feeling them out. Depending on where you live, you may or may not find a convenient way to actually fire them and a lot of stores frown upon excessively dry-firing the merchandise. Getting your hands on a gun, looking it over closely, and feeling it out will still tell you a lot.

Keep in mind your reason for having the gun. If it is for home defense and occasional range use (the more the better) then listen to the people calling out the LCR. LCRs in .38 special are great for concealed carry and are surprisingly good shooters for their size and weight. Still, guns of this size and weight take more practice to master and with many people considering them less fun to practice with, that can make for a poor first purchase. Unless you live in a place with severe restrictions, I recommend holding off on the LCR until maybe a second or third purchase.

That said, basic SA/DA revolvers are often considered "easier" or simpler than a lot of semis. Some people think they have a certain charm. Sure, they hold less ammo (unless you live in a place like NY) but six or seven shots isn't bad. There are a lot of ammo choices. You might want to check out a medium-frame, SA/DA, steel revolver in .38 +p with a barrel between 3" and 5". That makes for a good all-purpose handgun and will help build the requisite skills in case you later decide to get that LCR.

[HiBC]

All of the advice about "try before you buy" is good.
I'm not going to recommend a particular handgun.
Will you ever consider carrying concealed,or is this purely a home gun?
Some concealed carry desirable features don't matter much for a purely home defense gun,but the do matter if you will carry later.

One line I think is worthy of consideration is the S+W M+P series.

It is available in varying models with slightly different features.For example,an M+P 9mm Compact may be had with or without a thumb safety.This handgun is holster safe to carry without a thumb safety,and as such can be drawn and fired without the extra step of taking the safety off.

Price is moderate,it comes in 9mm which might be an excellent choice.It only weighs23 oz and holds 12 rds plus1.
It has a feature of interchangeable back straps to tune the grip to your hand.
You can view a review from one well informed woman here:
http://youtu.be/tPKyvdI3z68
There is a full size duty version of this gun that holds 17 rds.It would be equivalent of the 92,but a little more modern,lighter design with better "ease of use"The full size 17 rd mags from this larger gun can be equipt with a "grip sleeve" and they fit in the 9mm compact I mentioned first.The grip sleeve makes it all work like that is the way it was designed..

You van get into one of these for approx. $500.Maybe a little less if you shop.

If you go on youtube you can find a number of vids on this handgun.In one,Jerry Miculek compares the glock,Springfield XD,and this S+W.

If you think you may carry someday,that handgun would be fine in the Compact,but lighter and slimmer (19 oz and less than 1 in wide) is the S+W M+P Shield.It holds 8 +1 rds 9mm and would be a very good concealed carry piece.It can be had for under $400 and it,too is available with or without thumb dafety.
Once again,I am not recommending this as "the" handgun for you.I do strongly suggest you ask to see,handle,and shoot one for consideration.
Then you decide.
Julie Golob is a championship shooter with Team S+W.She is on fb.You might enjoy following her page.Its really more a ""Women with Guns "page than S+W sales.She just collected some snow geese,shows recipes and cooking game(field to fork),and was mighty proud of the Husquvarna chainsaw she got for Christmas.

[TimSr]

Another fan of "try before you buy" and see what you are comfortable with. many ranges have gun rentals.

I am a man who wears medium size gloves. I found the Beretta too large to be comfortable for me and for full size gun I opted for a SW 439 which is an 8 shot single wide magazine and smaller grip.

When I awaken at night from a dead sleep, I want double action revolver in the nightstand, but it won't be a snubby. I've opted for the 6" GP100.

Smaller guns are harder to shoot accurrately. If its not for CCW, stay away from compacts.

[Spats McGee]

In the event that I overlooked someone else saying this in the thread:

Welcome to TFL, firingbug!