Help me decide: Round in the chamber or not when storing HD shotgun?

[AKexpat]

ezmiraldo:

Mossberg is not going to give you any recommendations.

This is the day of litigation, for whatever.

IMO, thanks for listening to a few of us.

I think you are on the right track (my track) and just really think about all of the situations you may encounter. Your situation may not be mine. I am very rural. You may not be. Your 911 call may be answered in minutes. Mine might be within 30 minutes. Various situations demand different applications.

Keep your powder dry and be vigilant.

[Moomooboo]

Originally Posted by AKexpat

My 97 is the hd duty firearm...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow... A Win 97 (with no disconnector) for HD and you state the following?



Are you aware of how fast a home invasion can happen? I've seen YouTube vids of guys who can load (using shotshell speedloaders) a pump shotgun magazine in a few seconds, but that's not me and I'll bet it's not you. With the adrenaline pumping and sleep grogginess/confusion, it ain't gonna happen. Have you tried a similar scenario when you are fully awake and timed it? I bet you would be appalled.



So, now you have to travel to retrieve your shotgun (added seconds after you realize that someone or multiple folks have entered your home, from a location that has no easy access to the shotgun?



That is about the worst urban myth floating around, as if someone intent upon doing a forcible takeover of your domicile is going to be massively intimidated by the sound of you racking a round into the chamber, after you have retrieved your shotgun from a less than easily accessible location and fumbling around trying to load five rounds into the magazine from a stock-mounted shell holder.

I'll bet I typed that paragraph out faster than you could implement your scenario. I'm not a proficient typist; more of a skilled hunt and pecker.

I have no kids/grandkids at home. I have a Rem 870 Wingmaster 20" barrel that has the extended 7-shot mag tube loaded, chamber empty, hammer down, safety off at my bedside. Easily racked and ready to use.

Oh, BTW, it has a trigger disconnector so I can't emulate the guys in "The Wild Bunch" movie in case I get out of control.

Wow youre going to judge someone like this, he didnt ask for you to criticize.

[44 AMP]

It is not located for easy access, I want to travel a distance to be FULLY
AWAKE.

Finally, someone gets that.

Despite all the fantasies and pipedream of how you must have your shotgun ready to run instantly when you are groggy and not awake, the fact is that if you aren't "awake" enough to operate the very simple mechanism of a pump shotgun, you are NOT awake enough to identify your target, or assess a threat.

And you can count on the helpful local prosecutor to be aware of that fact, as well.

As to storing ammo separately, absolutely. I have way more ammo than will fit in a gun case, or a safe. Remember the operative word is STORAGE.

Not a repel boarders ready rack.

If you are concerned you will die before you can get to your ammo, or need to balance the security of the gun from curious little hands, or what have you, the answer is simple.

Don't be so lazy!

Gun empty, ammo stored, is as safe as safe gets. Your kids, neighbors kids, even the burglar who gets there before you get home, they don't get a loaded gun. Period.

When you get home, load and make ready, and your gun is as instantly available as it gets. Unload and store before leaving. Repeat on return. Sure, it takes a small amount of time, allow for it. You are doing it while wide awake, presumably in full possession of your faculties and fine motor skills. Not groggy waking up in the middle of the night.

Seems to me this simple habit would satisfy both camps.

[Snyper]

Despite all the fantasies and pipedream of how you must have your shotgun ready to run instantly when you are groggy and not awake, the fact is that if you aren't "awake" enough to operate the very simple mechanism of a pump shotgun, you are NOT awake enough to identify your target, or assess a threat.

Then it's also a fantasy to think you'll be "awake enough" to get the gun in action before it's too late.

Remember the operative word is STORAGE.
Not a repel boarders ready rack.

That's ignoring the "HD" component of the OP's question

Round in the chamber or not when storing HD shotgun?

A gun stored unloaded in another room isn't much of a "HD" resource

[Couzin]

Cruiser ready pump shotgun - empty gun, close the breech and pull trigger, leave bolt closed and fill magazine tube, safety off. Ready to go with simple pump.

[Moomooboo]

Originally Posted by Snyper

Then it's also a fantasy to think you'll be "awake enough" to get the gun in action before it's too late.



That's ignoring the "HD" component of the OP's question



A gun stored unloaded in another room isn't much of a "HD" resource

Of course it is. A gun in another room is an HD option. Who are you to judge? Who says he cant get to that room?

[Dreaming100Straight]

My answer remains cruiser ready. If that isn't ready enough for your circumstances, the answer is not to create an unsafe condition. Get a handgun, move, or do something other than load the shotgun chamber. Any benefit you may derive from a loaded chamber are far outweighed by the likelihood of serious accidental injury.

[Dreaming100Straight]

A gun in another room is an HD option. Who are you to judge? Who says he cant get to that room?

True. It kind of depends on a lot of variables. For instance, if at night I am likely in an upstairs BR and hopefully the dog or sounds of a breaking will alert me in time to bring a weapon to bear. If I am downstairs and the front door is suddenly kicked in, keeping a locked and loaded shotgun nest to my bed is not likely to do me any good - even if it were a downstairs BR. I suppose I could walk around the house with an 870 at port arms, but if I thought my neighborhood was so dangerous to warrant such measures I would move out. If I couldn't move out, I would get a handgun with a better drop safety record than shotguns.

[Moomooboo]

Originally Posted by Dreaming100Straight

True. It kind of depends on a lot of variables. For instance, if at night I am likely in an upstairs BR and hopefully the dog or sounds of a breaking will alert me in time to bring a weapon to bear. If I am downstairs and the front door is suddenly kicked in, keeping a locked and loaded shotgun nest to my bed is not likely to do me any good - even if it were a downstairs BR. I suppose I could walk around the house with an 870 at port arms, but if I thought my neighborhood was so dangerous to warrant such measures I would move out. If I couldn't move out, I would get a handgun with a better drop safety record than shotguns.

Only real option is to be on caffeine pills with a handgun by your side and never sleep. This is the only way some people will feel safe. I will admit i dont live in the safest of neighborhoods but im not going to live my life in fear. Ive had mortars coming in randomly at night before and learned to deal with that anxiety. If someone gets the jump on me back in hometown USA then so be it.

[Snyper]

Of course it is. A gun in another room is an HD option. Who are you to judge? Who says he cant get to that room?

Maybe the guy who kicked in the door and has his round already chambered.
We can all manufacture fantasy scenarios to fit our chosen outcome, but when you need to react with only seconds notice, it makes more sense to have your "HD" weapon ready as quickly as possible.

Not everyone wakes up in a stupor as many are implying

Those folks might need more security than just a gun if it takes them two minutes to gain consciousness

[Moomooboo]

Originally Posted by Snyper

Maybe the guy who kicked in the door and has his round already chambered.
We can all manufacture fantasy scenarios to fit our chosen outcome, but when you need to react with only seconds notice, it makes more sense to have your "HD" weapon ready as quickly as possible.

Not everyone wakes up in a stupor as many are implying

Those folks might need more security than just a gun if it takes them two minutes to gain consciousness

What a fantasy. A guy kicking in a door and the hinges coming right off. Haha.

Might want to quit daydreaming and judging others.

[Sharkbite]

Wow this thread has gone on a long time.

My take is a HD/SD handgun should be fully ready to go and in arms reach at all times

The OP asked about Shotguns. I'll address longguns in general. First, i have lived/worked in parts of the world that necessitated having a long gun at hand my rule of thumb was if the longgun was going to be IN MY HANDS and i was prepared to fight with it at a seconds notice, then of course it had a round chambered

BUT, if it was getting leaned in a corner while i had down time or was going into a storage rack of some kind the chamber was empty. When driving in a Motorcade, i kept it "cruiser ready"..chamber empty, full mag, decocked and safety off.

Same thing when going to sleep here at home. Longgun leaned in the corner at Cruiser ready. The pistol is fully ready to go, if i have time to grab the longgun, training has inculcated me to rack a round as the gun comes to shoulder

With proper training on how to "power stroke" your longgun. This is not an issue

[Snyper]

What a fantasy. A guy kicking in a door and the hinges coming right off. Haha.
Might want to quit daydreaming and judging others.

Who (besides you) said anything about hinges coming off?
It's not hard to break the locks on a door with a good swift kick, or to break some glass then reach in and unlock a door

I haven't made any judgements of others
I've made observations based on the comments given by others

Do you think this guy had time to go to another room and find his gun and ammo?:

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/d...asion/32788708

A Detroit homeowner is recovering after being shot early Monday morning during a deadly shoot-out with someone who broke into his home.

Police said a suspect forced a woman, the homeowner's girlfriend, who was outside of the home in the 19000 block of Liberal Street at 12:30 a.m. into the home at gunpoint.

The homeowner, 46, was shot twice in the chest. He was taken to St. John Hospital, and is listed in critical condition.

The suspect was killed at the scene, police said.

Wow youre going to judge someone like this, he didnt ask for you to criticize.

Have you waited to be asked?

[Moomooboo]

Originally Posted by Snyper

Who (besides you) said anything about hinges coming off?
It's not hard to break the locks on a door with a good swift kick, or to break some glass then reach in and unlock a door

I haven't made any judgements of others
I've made observations based on the comments given by others

Do you think this guy had time to go to another room and find his gun and ammo?:

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/d...asion/32788708




Have you waited to be asked?

You kick in a door and videotape it. Id love to see it.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by Moomooboo

You kick in a door and videotape it. Id love to see it.

You're joking, right? Please tell us you're joking.

Snyper is right; kicking in a door isn't that difficult, especially if you're a decent-sized man. And no, you don't try to kick the hinges off, you kick right next to the locking mechanism on an inward-opening door (which is most front doors). After a few kicks (or sometimes just one) the door jam splinters and the door opens. Sometimes it takes more than a few kicks, but lots of doors can be defeated this way.

Can all doors be kicked in with a few kicks? No, not all. But trying telling a cop or an infantryman who served in Iraq or Afghanistan that kicking in a door is a fantasy.

[Moomooboo]

Originally Posted by Theohazard

You're joking, right? Please tell us you're joking.

Snyper is right; kicking in a door isn't that difficult, especially if you're a decent-sized man. And no, you don't try to kick the hinges off, you kick right next to the locking mechanism on an inward-opening door (which is most front doors). After a few kicks (or sometimes just one) the door jam splinters and the door opens. Sometimes it takes more than a few kicks, but lots of doors can be defeated this way.

Can all doors be kicked in with a few kicks? No, not all. But trying telling a cop or an infantryman who served in Iraq or Afghanistan that kicking in a door is a fantasy.

Lets see a video of you kicking a door in here in the USA with one kick. Go ahead. If its not that difficult lets see it. Must be why swat teams around here do it all the time.

Of course its much eaiser to.kick in doors overseas. Youre kidding trying to.compare USA and middle eastern doors right?

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by Moomooboo

Lets see a video of you kicking a door in here in the USA with one kick. Go ahead. If its not that difficult lets see it. Must be why swat teams around here do it all the time.

Yeah, I'm going to destroy one of my doors just to please someone on an Internet forum. This is getting ridiculous; it's starting to look like you're trolling us here. But I'll play along...

SWAT teams often use door-breaching rams because it's faster and easier. But troops on patrol don't always want to lug something aroud like that, so kicking in the door is an alternative way to do it.

Originally Posted by Moomooboo

Of course its much eaiser to.kick in doors overseas. Youre kidding trying to.compare USA and middle eastern doors right?

And what makes you think people in the Middle East aren't capable of reinforcing their doors? I was in before Iraq and Afghanistan, but I went to many different countries when I was on deployments in the Marine Corps infantry. And you'd be surprised what kind of doors they had in some of the poorest countries. Take Albania, for example: The poorest people had houses made of concrete blocks and tarps with electricity stolen off the nearest power line, but many of those houses still had well-made hardwood doors and stained-glass windows. Supposedly there was a large black market in cheap stolen goods from nearby countries, and beautiful well-made doors and windows were easy to get.

No, you can't always kick the door in with just one kick, but many of the doors we have in the US are pretty flimsy or have flimsy door jams. Moomooboo, you're simply wrong here, and your arguments are getting ridiculous.

[Moomooboo]

Originally Posted by Theohazard

Yeah, I'm going to destroy one of my doors just to please someone on an Internet forum. This is getting ridiculous; it's starting to look like you're trolling us here. But I'll play along...

SWAT teams often use door-breaching rams because it's faster and easier. But troops on patrol don't always want to lug something aroud like that, so kicking in the door is an alternative way to do it.

And what makes you think people in the Middle East aren't capable of reinforcing their doors? I was in before Iraq and Afghanistan, but I went to many different countries when I was on deployments in the Marine Corps infantry. And you'd be surprised what kind of doors they had in some of the poorest countries. Take Albania, for example: The poorest people had houses made of concrete blocks and tarps with electricity stolen off the nearest power line, but many of those houses still had well-made hardwood doors and stained-glass windows. Supposedly there was a large black market in cheap stolen goods from nearby countries, and beautiful well-made doors and windows were easy to get.

No, you can't always kick the door in with just one kick, but many of the doors we have in the US are pretty flimsy or have flimsy door jams. Moomooboo, you're simply wrong here, and your arguments are getting ridiculous.

Yea. You cant kick in doors here in the usa with one kick. Those doors in afghanistan are flimsy, doors itself and the frame. Thats cool about albania youre going way off topic. On the whole those doors over there are way -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-tier than the ones here in the states. Youre just taking a few examples to try and justify your previous statement. Youre really reaching.

Im wrong? Go kick in a door in the USA instead of spouting off things on the internet. I guaranty you wont kick your front door in with one kick, marine or not.

[Theohazard]

OK, now I'm convinced you're trolling me...

[zincwarrior]

I would imagine Middle Eastern doors are harder. We have less violence here.

[Moomooboo]

Originally Posted by Theohazard

OK, now I'm convinced you're trolling me...

Youve also convinced yourself you can kick in doors with one kick here in the USA.

Originally Posted by zincwarrior

I would imagine Middle Eastern doors are harder. We have less violence here.

Nope. Their doors are made out of terrible quality materials and they dont really have codes and quality control like we do here. What makes you think theyre better over there?

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by Moomooboo

Youve also convinced yourself you can kick in doors with one kick here in the USA.

Moomooboo, when did I ever say that I could kick a door in with just one kick? Show me. I've said several times that it can easily take multiple kicks, and I never once claimed otherwise. I also never said that every door can be kicked in; some are stronger than others. I'm getting tired of you claiming I said something that I didn't.

And I'm also getting tired of you repeatedly demanding I ruin my own door. All you have to do is look on YouTube for plenty of videos of people kicking in doors. Sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's ridiculously easy, and sometimes the door is just too tough or the angle is bad. But claiming it's a fantasy is absolutely idiotic.

Originally Posted by Moomooboo

Nope. Their doors are made out of terrible quality materials and they dont really have codes and quality control like we do here. What makes you think theyre better over there?

I'm curious where your expertise in Middle Eastern building practices comes from. I'm also curious to know when doors in the US became standardized enough for you to make universal claims about them.

[Moomooboo]

Originally Posted by Theohazard

Moomooboo, when did I ever say that I could kick a door in with just one kick? Show me. I've said several times that it can easily take multiple kicks, and I never once claimed otherwise. I also never said that every door can be kicked in; some are stronger than others. I'm getting tired of you claiming I said something that I didn't.

And I'm also getting tired of you repeatedly demanding I ruin my own door. All you have to do is look on YouTube for plenty of videos of people kicking in doors. Sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's ridiculously easy, and sometimes the door is just too tough or the angle is bad. But claiming it's a fantasy is absolutely idiotic.

I'm also curious how you seem to have become an expert in Middle Eastern building codes and building practices.

The whole concept of storing this gun is that one would receive no warning. Hence one kick, door open, youre caught with your underpants down. Multiple kicks would give you more than enough warning to grab that shotgun and chamber a round.

Youre not the only one whos been to the middle east. Its fantasy if you cant do it. After all if a Marine cant kick down a door in one kick, most would say its fantasy. Go ahead kick your front door down and prove it false.

[ezmiraldo]

Looks like the train is gettin' off the rails...

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by Moomooboo

Go ahead kick your front door down and prove it false.

Moomooboo, I have to say, I've never had anyone repeatedly demand that I destroy parts of my house to prove a point. Considering my front door is fairly flimsy and is mostly glass, I'm sure it would be pretty easy to break, even with one kick. But no matter how many times you demand it (has it been three times now?), I'm not causing hundreds of dollars of property damage to a rented house just to prove a point. However, I will link you to the first YouTube video I found on the subject. It's a surveillance video of a burglar kicking a door down in one kick, and he didn't even do it right (skip ahead to the 1:15 mark).

https://youtu.be/fq0jO-x_CAM

Originally Posted by Moomooboo

Its fantasy if you cant do it.

Yes, if my door is too strong to kick in, that means everyone's door in the whole USA is too strong to kick in... That's terrible logic there; please tell me you're trolling.