February 25, 2011, 10:01 PM | #601 |
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Here is picture the CBC 20ga FH setup
by mono-blocking a heavy 20 ga barrel into a CBC 12ga breech section.The 20 heavy barrel is threaded into the mono-block made by cutting off 12ga barrel. These CBC actions are taller and wider than other break actions and the locking lug block works better and nicer than other break actions.Also shown is 20ga 3.5" plastic and brass cases. Second picture is PH action with port lengthened for 585HSM, shown in action. I also have second change barrel for 700HE long case for this action. Imagine over 20,000 ft lbs in a PH, for 700HE. Also shown behind is a PH with 700H 3.25"..Ed
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March 5, 2011, 04:13 AM | #602 |
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Here are some 20ga slugs/sabots we rigged up.
I traded for whole box(hundreds) of 20ga Hammerhead slugs, in the picture. They had pulled slugs out of the locked on plastic base, so I glue them back in so base stays for fair smoothbore accuracy. And I also glued in various 458 bullets, as shown, which fit tight in cup, up to 500gr. They discard on impact. Fair accuracy at 50-70 yds. Less expensive shooting as I have pile of hard lead 458 slugs. Idea on 8ga FH. Looked at a TCR87 break action 10ga and the breach mono-block can take a little bigger barrel.If I find one I can afford(pricey) I'll do 8ga. These are very strong actions, a little smaller version of the action setup Colin put the 2bore in. Just put in straight 8ga bull barrel like NEF Ultra.ED
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March 11, 2011, 02:45 AM | #603 |
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Here is picture of the 4bore in a more finished look.
Second picture is closeup of cases and 1520 gr hollowbase hard slugs. The 4bore is smooth bore so hollowbase slugs are used. I set up gun with smoothbore as that saved large amount of time and money on the barrel. Ed
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March 11, 2011, 09:01 AM | #604 |
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As always thank you for this most interesting thread. What are the ballistics of the 4 Bore you pictured?
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March 12, 2011, 03:59 AM | #605 |
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So far-
Light weight 760 gr ball 2700 Double ball load 2200- 1520gr lead slug 2200. These are moderate loads. Good weather gets here will test them higher The brass and gun will hold pressures to get 1500gr slug to 26-2700.Ed
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March 12, 2011, 10:10 AM | #606 |
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So this will go over 20,000 ft lbs. I think you indicated you had a couple others set up to do over 20,000 ft lbs or is this the only one? What are the general methods you use to deal with the insane recoil aside fron the obvious like a really heavy gun and a good pad? Thanks
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March 13, 2011, 02:45 PM | #607 |
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The heavy gun and good pad works along with
thumbhole stock. I also put ports on the top of muzzle if needed.And hold it tight which the thumbhole stock makes easier.Ed
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March 21, 2011, 06:50 AM | #608 |
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I found 3 long brass 8ga cases to go with
the 3.3" plastic ones. They are an inch longer and made by RMC. The 8ga barrel I'm putting on a falling block will have the chamber long so I can use both lengths of cases. The plastic ones are from 8ga kiln cases with base swaged a little and has shotgun primers, The long brass has shotgun primers. I use Fed 239 shotgun primers.Ed
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March 29, 2011, 01:21 AM | #609 |
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The long brass 8ga cases have same thick
sides as plastic cases. And there are long plastic/paper cases out there, but they are scarce. Thick sides mean a good chamber fit, so as to minimize case expansion and make sizing easier. Here is picture 8ga and 10ga fullbore slugs with locked on basewads that I setup. Wads held on by screws and slugs hollowbase as well, so to work in smooth barrels with some accuracy. 8ga is 1100gr. 10ga is 900 gr.Ed
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March 29, 2011, 02:09 AM | #610 |
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dang you aint going to have a shoulder left man
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March 29, 2011, 02:30 AM | #611 |
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MAGNIFICENT
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April 4, 2011, 03:30 AM | #612 |
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New super strong 12ga bolt gun just out, Savage 212, taking
over for the 210. You know I did my first 12ga FH in a 210 and have posted that sometime I'd like to get a thicker walled reciever built to have more strength and safety. Well Savage helped us out. Its reciever is 1.5" diameter, where the 210 was 1.36" dia. I has a large .900" diameter bolt, where the 210 had regular 110 bolt inside bolt carrier. It has a fitted bolt head like 210 and other Savage 110-116 rifles. Only its bolt head has two lugs where the 210 had 3 lugs. Its two lugs about 90% strength as the 210s 3 lugs.Its about 12% stronger lugs than Enfield and Rugers. Also it appears the bolt raceways are not through the barrel thread area so about 50% stronger barrel connection. Price not too bad 500-550. I'll try to find one later to do some hairy cartridges in. It has a 3" 12ga chamber from factory and detachable magazine. Probably can have mag and port lengthened and feed ok, with 3.5" 12ga and the 700H 3.25". More info as I find out stuff.Picture from auction-e.Thanks to Bob in OR for info.Ed
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April 12, 2011, 11:30 PM | #613 |
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Some more info on the Savage 212. I looked at one,
got more measurements. The port is 3.812" long. Can be made longer. Bolt travel is 4.625" and can be .50" longer. And with full diameter bolt can have extra lugs in back. The Mag box has room for extra length in front of it and behind it. It could work for 12ga FH and 700HE long case. A fellow on Gunsmithing forum found a way to make jacketed slugs using copper tubing caps, the solder ones, by putting them in a die and using a shaped punch to form a round nose copper jacket, that can be filled with lead. He made .700 cal ones, different dies/punchs could be made .729, 12ga size. I got a few here and going to see what is possible. I got bigger caps also to see about 4ga and 8ga ones. Here is picture of the CBC break action with the 20ga heavy barrel mono-blocked in, with action open.Ed
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April 27, 2011, 10:20 AM | #614 |
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Would have posted back quicker but computer
hookup down for afew days.. Here is picture of 16GA FH I mentioned earlier doing in an Enfield. Got 630gr slug 2400, compared to the first 16GA FH in thin barrel break action at 1600. I use 630 gr full bore slugs and the 385gr SPW saboted with locked on base. Opened port and changed bolt stop. Reamed front so case fit through action into barrel and added extra rear lugs. Same process that is used to do Enfield in my 700H 3.25. I got some of the work done on 8ga in my falling block design, like the 4ga I've done pictured earlier. Will get pictures posted later..Ed
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May 10, 2011, 03:29 AM | #615 |
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Experimenting for fellows trying to get speed with heavier sabot slugs than
the lightweight saboted 4-500 gr kind of slugs, in 2 5/8" length brass cases for where length is limited.. Using 770 gr saboted slugs with locked on base, by US-S. Thes are long saboted slugs due being brass and locked on base. Real hard to do with these due to lack of powder space for the RE17 and IMR 4759-4227 that I like to use. With 770 gr and 60gr 4759 got 1450 fps. With 75gr Re17 about 1350 fps. Both of these all case will hold under sabot. For contrast using full bore 730 gr Dixie with just seals under it, much more powder room, with 95gr 4759 getting 1800 plus and 130 gr RE17 1700 fps. I went to faster powder, my slowest shotgun powder, Alliant steel, to try to get speed like full bore slugs get. These listed are max loads before brass cases expanded to much and started sticking, due to sharp expansion step, where the base goes to the side with a real small inside radius on this particular RMC brass case. 47gr Steel,and 770 gr slug 1400 fps. So I tried the 570 gr US-S with 53gr Steel,and got 1700 fps. Same slug with 65gr 4759 got 1650. You can put in more Steel but cases stick. And cases expanded that way are hard to resize. The first 3" brass I got years ago, same problem with a sharp step expanding above the base. So when I had 3.5" brass made I had them do a long inside radius from base to the sides. These with extra room for powder and cushion are much less problem. I think where you have to use shorter cases, you can use plastic, as a 3" plastic is 2 5/8" when crimped and will do the same and only be 20 cents or so new.Ed
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May 26, 2011, 12:58 AM | #616 |
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Here is picture of a big bolt action a fellow on Homegunsmith
built to put big cases in, for his own use. It is of better looks, quality than most other single shot actions, of that style being built by others for sale. And that is absolute sexiest bolt handle. Also the fellow made a recess type of die and shaped punch to make large caliber, copper bullet jackets, from plumbing copper caps, and then put melted lead into them from the back. He uses a big hammer, works great. I got a few different sizes of caps and they are perfect for bullet jackets. Right from hardware or plumber supply places. ED
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May 29, 2011, 01:45 AM | #617 |
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Answering questions bullet jackets from copper tubing caps. This process makes jacketed slug with covered nose. With heavy soft jacket as opposed to a solid turned slug from solid rod or soft lead slug.
1/2" caps can make .700 and 12ga size jackets. 5/8" caps can do 8ga and maybe 10ga jkts. And 3/4" caps can make 4ga. These cups are malleable enough to shape into jackets, without a 20 ton stamping press. Interesting info about our posting of this subject on about 5 dozen forums. One big general forum thread, that we posted some info, has about 5 million views.It is Mil Photo Forum a big world wide forum.. The top forum of the bunch, with whole thread on it about 120,000 views, 2nd about 110,000, views, 3rd one about 104,000 views, 4th one (which is this forum) about 102,00 views. And we really appreciate all the support from the forums, big and small. And all the help from readers..Ed Ed
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June 9, 2011, 08:16 AM | #618 |
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You know of the 4 bore we did on falling block,
with its 1 inch bore.Using turned cases and cases made from 20mm brass. Our cases have a rim and straight sides. A smith in the EU made a 1 inch bore gun on a bolt action, using 20mm brass expanded to take 1 inch bullets. His case has a shoulder to head space on. It is called the Inch Gun by some. It is a really nice looking gun, with great craftsmanship.Ed
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June 9, 2011, 08:46 AM | #619 |
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Hope it is as stout as its good looks. That is one nice looking gun.
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June 9, 2011, 09:13 AM | #620 |
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Very nice work,however I did not read the whole thread but what type of game would this firearm likely take out real fast effectively with one shot or two. A large adult elephant? seriously tho. Thanks
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June 9, 2011, 01:32 PM | #621 |
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These big bores would be stoppers for elephant,
rhino, and African buffalo.Our 1 inch 4bore with top loads has a Taylor KO of about 600.Ed
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June 9, 2011, 10:14 PM | #622 |
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I've got a nosebleed and a dislocated shoulder just looking at those things. Any pics of you actually firing them? Or are there some somewhere in this long thread?
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June 10, 2011, 01:15 AM | #623 |
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Youtube videos of 12ga FH atomizing 6 gal sealed pail
of water. Called 'Grandpa's Cannon' and "Grandpa's First Shot". In these I shot at the pail from my bench.Ed
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June 10, 2011, 02:21 AM | #624 |
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I've been following this thread for 3 years. I still think you're crazy.
I was going to ask if the 12 ga FH participants making jackets from plumbing caps were annealing the jackets, but realized a lead hot-pour will take care of that. It would probably make the forming process easier, though. Keep up the good work. We all enjoy the updates.
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June 10, 2011, 11:47 AM | #625 |
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The guys never mentioned annealing.
They are soft enough that I formed a nose on one with rounded punch and a hole in a steel block. Ed
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